Winograd: IDF put troops' safety over operational needs
Hanan Greenberg
Published: 30.01.08, 20:39
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1. In other words....
Shai ,   IL   (01.30.08)
...what you're saying is that their safety should not have been a consideration when weighing the value of operational needs? Did Olmert write this for you guys? Geez. Wake up people, do you not see what's going down here?
2. Yes, the Likud under Sharon failed too but Olmert was PM!
We the People ,   The Galilee   (01.30.08)
He must to the decent thing and resign. I he doesn't and the country is forced into a general election another stalemate coalition will be formed, nothing will change and NIS100 million will be wasted. Kadimah has 2 choices. Force Olmert to resign or remove him from office. The other is being wiped off the face of the Israeli political map. Well Ministers Livni, Dichter, Sheetreet, Mofaz, Ramon, Avrahami, Bar On what is it to be? Do you want Bibi Netanyahu to be the next Prime Minister of Israel? That would be a total disaster for all the old, sick and poverty stricken Israelis. He probably will make the Holocaust Survivors pay back the pittance they received!
3. The IDF operated during war with fear
That's a problem.
4. Take a pill.
Ypip ,   Canada   (01.30.08)
5. transition
Ypip ,   Canada   (01.30.08)
There is a conflict of interest when someone holds onto power for too long. There is no interest of conflict when they can bow out of it.
6. What KADIMA Really Should Mean
Adina Kutnicki ,   US   (01.30.08)
First, the political leaders hold absolute sway over what the IDF is allowed to do, or NOT do. The military leaders have been dictated to adopt insane policies of 'engagement', such as restraint is strength (what the hell does THAT mean??), containment, AND limited conflict doctrines. These are ALL recipes for failure, certainly not VICTORY. The lackluster performance during the war is a case of exactly who was (and still is) piloting the military ship - the commanders or the political hacks. While military commanders surely should be planning the strategic military goals/campaigns, many have allowed themselves to be co-opted by political whims. Why? Because they are intent on retiring as high level politicians and will NOT rock their gravy boats. Since the left is in TOTAL control of the power levers, (contrary to what others scream) they in turn have adopted leftward answers for military matters. How disgraceful. Both the politicians and the military leaders are to blame, and the highest echelons of both should be dismantled. Tragically, it was the average foot soldier who bore the brunt, as the leaders see them only as pawns. At the same time, NO military can effectively operate when their main concerns are casualties. Plans need to be executed, and commanders with the most experience and moral clarity should be LEADING them into battle - KADIMA!
7. Winograd will never reveal what did goes on in that war
e.m.Jordan is Palest ,   s.f   (01.31.08)
Israel did not reveal what did go wrong in the war 1973 and they will never reveal also what did goes on in the second Lebanon war, I feel Sorry for the innocent people that have lost their life in that war, By the way do not blame the IDF because the Israeli politicians did not let to IDF do their jobs
9. operational needs? what were the goals? olmert failed
jack bauer   (01.31.08)
the leaders failed to set clear goals and priorities. The army would have been able to meet those if they were properly established. the leadership of the politburo is to blame, not the lower officers on the front. anyhow, who, would want to sacrifice themselves for olmert and company? I wouldnt Knowing full well he intended on expelling my family from their home in Yesha.....not to mentions withdrawing from any territory captured in war
10. Israelis need to get realistic
David ,   Sydney, Australia   (01.31.08)
You cannot win a war without BOTH soldier and civilian casualties It is time Israeli soldiers threw their mobile phones away, stopped calling their mothers every 5 minutes and learn how to fight like men It is also time that leaders stop thinking about world criticism for collateral damage
11. Forgive me for being a mother . . .
vered ,   israel   (01.31.08)
but it seemed to me the military didn't care enough about our soldier's safety. They are here to defend us, but they are not cannon fodder.
12. winograd and leadership
marv   (01.31.08)
Winograd got it all wrong by issuing a vague report of lack of planning and leadership by most of the IDF brass and some by the Olmert trio.Implied was the lack of skill of IDF soldiers. Not recognized was the skill of iran's Hezbollah force. Using Mugnieh and korean advisors, they devised IED- bunker rocket systems that air power cannot easily eliminate.A ground invasion had to be preceded by an air and israeli kassem-type terror rocket barrage and artillery with gas shells to pacify each area. Contrary to the supreme court, lebanese captives have to be used to walk and cleanse the various areas , then IDF soldiers can enter via the backdoor.. Sufficent force has to be used. You want to win, you employ whatever tactics you need. Having cowards like Olmert and Livni does not inspire the troops to fight.I agree with comments on Mofaz who has been overrated. Look, under Sharon, troops were not exactly prepared, but when he led them they quickly got into shape with a good effort on the west bank. A good leader and smart tactics would have had a better outcome. Look, you dumb israelis, a leader like Gillerman and Yaalon would be decisive for Israel.Jostle and hound Olmert physically, he will leave out of fear the rat that he is.
13. No wonder the Diaspora is pulling away from Israel
Sigfried S. Kuhn ,   Aberdeen   (01.31.08)
Olmert was correct in saying that Israel was tired of winning wars so, for a change, they lost a war. They were fortunate that they were only facing a few thousand guerilla fighters rather than a coalition of enemy states. The lessons that must be learned are necessary for Israel to survive: 1. Olmert must go. He sets the tone for Israel and if the leadership pronounces that Israel is tired of winning, the message will carry over to the IDF and the civilian population. Olmert was hopelessly inept and continues to be the worst Prime Minister ever. 2. It is time for the people of Israel to wake up the fact that the 2008 IDF is not the 1967 IDF. Israel has gone soft. It is true that Israel's army is better equipped and has a larger population to draw from. However, the Winograd report blames the leadership of the IDF for a strategically non-existent battle plan and lacked the guts to win the war even though individual soldiers fought bravely and well. Israel had tanks, air supremacy, and technological superiority. Yet it lacked the will or resolve to do what was necessary to win. In contrast, the 1967 IDF was led by brilliant and brave commanders who knew that you only went to war to win and damn world opinion. They knew how to impromise and the commanders, while not reckless with soldiers lives, knew that they had to expect casualties to win. In addition, Dayan and Rabin were far better leaders than anyone in today's IDF. 3. Israel has to redefine treason because it seems as if no behavior, no matter how much it helps the enemy, is punished.
14. A total whitewash.....absolutely disgusting!
Freejay ,   Israel   (01.31.08)
There should be an investigation into the Winograd investigation! How can Olmert be allowed to appoint his own investigators? How is that morally right or even legal? Total corruption at its utmost! You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself Winograd, for not telling the public the the truth. G-d bless the IDF! Olmert, your going to hell!
17. The real faliure is our faliure to understand the real
Israelisreal   (01.31.08)
situation on the ground. we can blame each other, bash each other until we all go blue in the face, but it won't change basic facts.
18. After the Winograd report.
Harold Lane ,   Tel Aviv   (01.31.08)
It was not the task of the Winograd commission to add to its report recommandations for a solution of the Israelo-Arab conflict. However, if we want to stop the killings and avoid future wars we should have the courage to consider realistic original solutions. One of these possibilities is described at :
19. IDF / failures
Jacques Heller ,   Modiin, Israel   (01.31.08)
The outcome of the war would have been entirely different if Tsahal would have been led by another professional, experienced Chief-of-Staff. Someone with vision, authority and close to the field and its commanders. It is true everywhere: the example comes from the top. Remember the Yom Kippur war and all its tragic failures. We deserve better leadership and it is the responsability of the pblic and the electoral system to choose its leaders.
20. War
alex ,   Germany   (02.05.08)
Hello! Beside these terror acs is Russian Military secret Service (GRU). They use new russian weapons, these weapons are telepathie and telekinese apparates! They make from muslims terrorists! Beside terror acts in Israel is GRU. I have proves for these activities of GRU in Israel. If you need more information, are interested in this information, you should contact me. my e-mail is: P.S.: The terror act bin Munich in 1972 was also manipulated by GRU.
21. Winograd report Did Not Emphasize...
The Archives ,   Kuala Lumpur, M'sia   (05.29.09)
enough essential subjects that caused the defeat of the War as: 1) The IDF army preparations for War 2) Strategic tactical maneuvers. 3) The type of ammunition used. 4) The operation capability of the IDF. 5) Why military drones is not used? 6) Why special operations were not launched behind enemy lines? 7) What is the priority of the war? To destroy missile defense or weapons stockpile or to sabortage installations? Every war has a clear objective where military preparations must preceed before it otherwise it will be like 'Sending leaves blowing into a storm, swaying left and right. And in the end none of them reaches anywhere.'
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