And it still means nothing under international law. we control judea and samaria effecttively and we will continue to do so...

And does that include the entire package that comes with declaring a State? Meaning, your own infrastructure, power, water, medical care, jobs? Or is it that you just want it in name to appease the Palestinian masses and expect us to finance it?

This statement is idiotic. Short of being internationally recognized , "independance" has no chance to survive more than the celebration !. No money, no industry, not even unity amongst the population. Independance is only good if it leads to something "positive" . In that particular case , only negative outcome could result from any unilateral decision. Gaza and the west bank is not Kosovo, the issues are totally different and Israel is not Serbia ! An other demonstration of the Palestinian limited ability in understanding politics ....! Additionally, should "palestine" become independant this would create a further embarassement for surrounding countries who have POSITIVELY NO INTEREST IN HELPING AND "INDEPENDANT PALESTINE"

Go ahead Rabo and we will declare a state in Judea and Samaria and watch who gets the support.

Go for it. Then Israel can divest itself of this cancer. No Electricity, no services, no nothing. And the next Kassam that lands anywhere on Israeli soil is a declaration of war by another state. Do it if you dare.

Israel should absolutely reject the idea of a second Arab state west of the Jordan. In July 1970, Egypt and Jordan accepted U.S. secretary of state William Rogers’ plan for Israel’s withdrawal from the west Bank and Gaza in exchange for peace and recognition. But instead of embracing the plan and taking control of the West Bank and Gaza, Arafat denounced the Rogers proposal, reiterating his determination to reject any peace agreement. The liberated Palestine he sought would stretch from the Jordan river to the sea, with no Israel. All peace agreements that left Israel intact were in his view betrayals of the Palestinian cause as described at : http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2008/02/communist-roots-of-palestinian_342.html

The Palestinians should declare statehood tomorrow with the internationally recognized pre-1967 Green Line as its borders, as negotiating with the Israeli land thieves will never achieve peace as their greed is too great. Currently occupied Palestine is full of very hard working people who only need their freedom to thrive, and with their stolen water resources restored and no longer controlled by the Zionists, and the willing help of Arab neighbors and other nations such as Russia to assist in rebuilding their infrastucture, Palestinians will have a bright future indeed. I recognize the State of Palestine today, and all peace loving people should do the same. Long Live the State of Palestine.

Does Indepenence mean self reliance and complete separation from Israel?? go for it!!

Why cant both parties just sit down and finish the job? Surely its not beyond the combined intelligence of Abbas and Olmert? Rahther than this stop start stop start negotiation JUST GET ON WITH IT. Because Israelis and Palestinians alike we all want to get on with our futures!

GO FOR IT !

Hopefully the United States will soon start to realize that the Islamic jihad in the Balkans in general and in Kosovo in particular is very much an integral part of a world wide Islamic movement whose clear intent it is to subjugate the entire world to Islamic rule under Sharia law and to a Caliph who is literally a follower in a direct line of authority from the Prophet Muhammad.

The world underwrites the Palestinian economy. Israel doesn't. As a matter of fact....one of the biggest struggles for Israel in Gaza....is not being able to sell 1.5 million people Israeli goods. The Palestinian Territories are very important to Israel's base economy. You don't have to be a Nobel Laureate to figure that out.

Even living nice and safely in the UK you should know that the Palestinian economy is dependent upon Israeli decisions. Over the years the international community of course has given the Palestinians billions of dollars, where is it? What do they have to show for it? ........A BIG FAT NOTHING! Why didn't they use that money to build power stations, desalination plants, jobs, proper medical care, create holiday resorts?..... WHY? Because they chose to spend it on arming themselves knowing that WE will still supply their basic needs. The Palestinians also prefer food goods made in Israel than to locally produced goods. They have got used to the good life. Those are the facts.

I fully support this move, for the Pals to declare their Independence. And it is a smashingly good timne, since preemption is on the pals minds(such as they are) for Israel to declare final borders, annex Judea/Samaria and the Golan and adopt borders from the Jordan to the med. From Lebanon to Eilat. From Natchez to Mobile.Where-ever the four wind blow, etc. Restructure the national I.D.card for citizens and legal residents of Israel, and all others will be Illegal Aliens residing in Israel as stateless persons who mat then seek citizenship of the borderless state of Palestine or wherever, and NOT be subject to public assistance other than that of recent African entrants. In other words. You have what you want. Independence. Now Go!!

what exactly do you think Israel is "selling" to Gaza? How exactly do you think Gaza is "paying"? Maybe you don't need to be a Nobel Laureate but you do need to have two brains cells to rub together.

You also forget to mention that israel has received far, far, far more in US aid and EU aid than Palestinians have. So what was that about Israel financing Palestine? Don't you mean the US and EU financing Israel? As to the water plants, electric plants etc. They have all been bombed to rubble by the israelis. Your issue, along with many of the TBs here, is that you pour venom and vitriol on the Palestinains without acknowledging that were it not for the US and the EU Israel would not exist. Full stop.

Such kind words. What an intelligent, benign example of Jewishness you are.

This should mean economic independance too... and they are very far from that elusive target !!!!

What does Israel sell to Gaza? Just about everything on the shelves and in the street. From cars, to fuel, to food. Have you been to Gaza Danny dearest? Obviously not. One thing for sure is that nothing goes to Gaza for free. Hmmmm....the Karni "commercial" crossing,the Kerem Shalom "commercial" crossing. These are not humanitarian cirridors. Danny, I seriously suggest you believe less of what you read on the right-wing blogs and digest the facts on the ground. Two micro economies in a region like the Middle East need each other. Israel receives billions in aid as well. You likely don't want to remember that though. In your case, ignorance is indeed bliss. As for the brain cell issue. Clearly the two you have are franticly trying to find each other. Let us know when they do.

The west might accept an indipendent Kosvo but even the anti Israel countries wont want to recognise an indipendent palestian state declared unilateraly because they know its going to make the Balkan problem look like an argument between friends. An indipendent palestian state will start making laws unaceptable to Israel, probably start building a real army to defend this state. The holiest thing in Jerusalem will be the so called holy martyrs than it will for holy sites. What borders will this state unilateraly declare, what will happen to settlers is the palestian army going to start moving in guns blazing killing all the jews after all there is no negotiation so the palestians will feel they can do what they like. The palestians know that its not in their interest to start looking to Kosovo as the way forward for them and if they dont see it and they try something stupid it will allmost certainy lead to full scale war.

declare and provide your own water/fuel/-whatever supplies u need and do not depend on israel for them. u want to be independent prove that u r capable.

I find the talkbacks presented by the Jewish readers terribly amusing and disturbing. I hope I do not have to remind you that the State of Israel was unilaterally declared amid a historical backdrop of war, uncertainty and desperation by courageous Jewish leaders who sought to re-establish the Jewish homeland after almost 1900 years of exile. Fifty nine years (almost 60) has gone by does not excuse your selective amnesia of facts. International law (which has been routinely biased against Israel, however it brought your country into existence and protects your future through tenuous diplomacy processes) requires only two nations within the body of the UN to recognize the declaration of independence by a newly formed country; there are 54? (effectively 1/4 of the UN) Muslim countries with a lot of clout that would support the unilateral declaration (not to mention a slough of other nations in Africa, Asia and Europe who would back the PA and their effort). After this, the security council would convene and with Bush in his final days and desperately trying to leave a positive legacy as a man who "increased peace and democracy", the US would not exercise its veto power. The French, UK, China, Russia would likely refrain their veto as well. The shortsightedness and scathing backlash of the Jewish Israeli populous on this issue troubles me for these reasons: If the PA declares independence (which would naturally be backed by powerful political entities) it would further divide the PA and Hamas from ever reconciling and further isolate Hamas in the international arena. More aid would be diverted to the PA and away from Gaza-stan which would inevitably cause at least two results - either Hamas would increase their Jihad against Israel while simultaneously targeting the PA which would distance themselves from the Gazan Palestinian population (hopefully resulting in a civilian revolution and dissolution of Hamas) or - This would facilitate Hamas to finally accept the reality of the 21st century and mature into an appropriate political partner (I am hoping for the first scenario; Hamas needs to be removed for the benefit of Jews and Palestinians) Another outcome would invariably put more pressure on the PA to regulate terror stemming from within its "borders" (whatever they are right now with the zones A B C etc..bla bla) and require them to actually cater MORE to Israeli demands as they naturally would benefit $$$handsomely$$$ from the US and European nations as Egypt did with its bargain for peace with Israel in the late 70s. With the PA in a weakened position, Israel stands to benefit more from proposed land transfers, Israeli security concerns, maintenance of vital resource deposits and holy sites as the newly formed PA state would need to prove itself and be weened from infancy into maturity. There are many other dimensions that would further benefit Israel, the Jewish people and Palestinian people but, this is all "hypothetical" analysis...If the PA does create a state and fails to live up to its expectations, Israel would have even more right to intervene and take over more control than the current situation allows for...(this means more land for settlers...possibly even a second exodus of Palestinians; Israel is undeniably prepared for anything that the PA could launch against it so your country is not in jeopardy) Hope this was marginally insightful...your remarks remind me of the "Jihadist animals" that you so adorably denounce... Grow up and learn to calculate 2 days in the future instead of just 1, Regards Bret

EU doesn't supply aid to Israel, only the Palestinians. The US ONLY supplies military aid of which virtually all is in the form of "credits" which Israel can only spend on US weapons. As for the power plants - you are a bit out of date, the Gaza power plant has been online for over a year and Israel never bombed water plants as evidenced by the zero deaths by dehydration. Care to explain - without making up fake "aid" - how Israel "relies" on the EU?

could be one of the guys who puts gideon bibles in hotel drawers and what exactly are you objecting to?

because neither of them can deliver what the other wants. Abbas - with the best will in the world, which he may or may not have - cannot stop terrorism. He cannot guarantee a halt to all attacks or even the cold peace with have with Egypt. Olmert cannot halt the settlements and without the guarantees from Abbas cannot guarantee withdrawals. So all they are doing is using up the small amount of goodwill on both sides.

Not a penny of EU aid goes to Israel. US aid to Israel is barely 3% of Israeli annual budget. What percentage of PA budget comes from foreign aid?

I served in Gaza for three years so probably know it a little better than you. The average income in gaza is less than 2 USD a day. Lets use your inflated figure of 1.5 million inhabitants and lets assume they spend every single last penny on Israeli goods. That comes out to a grand total of 1 billion USD. The Israeli GDP is nearly 150billion USD. So assuming no costs involved in doing business with Gaza and assuming 100% saturation Gaza would make up less than 1% of Israeli GDP. In reality, it is a rounding error. As for Israel being a "micro"-economy, Israel is 42 in the world for a country continuously at war, with no natural resources and only 7 million people. We have a higher GDP per capita than Iran which has the second largest deposits of oil. Kerem Shalom and Karni are exactly that - humanitarian aid. Wierdly enough, none of the aid goes through Rafiah... You think the Palestinians are paying for the food? or fuel? As for aid, methinks you have us confused with the Palestinians - the highest per capita recipients of international aid in the world. We receive "credits" to buy military goods off the US, which means we see hardly any of that money. guess the two brains cells I have met each other..... Good luck with yours.