Opinion
Jewish tolerance limited
Uri Orbach
Published: 11.03.08, 00:33
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34 Talkbacks for this article
1. They MUST Go!
Norman F Birnberg ,   Salida, USA   (03.11.08)
The Arabs need to be removed from Israel. Its clear where their loyalties lie. Without an internal Arab menace, much of the money Israel has to spend on expensive security measures could be freed up for more productive purposes. If this happens, the Arabs will have only themselves to blame if they one day are forced out to live in another Arab state.
2. Destroy the bomber's house and jail his family
Avraham ,   NYC   (03.11.08)
3. Jewish tolerance limited??
Marlene N. ,   New York City   (03.11.08)
Maybe Uri, it is tolerance against Jews carrying out crimes in the name of other Jews which is going to end, and I hope it does. Do not speak for Jews as though you speak for all Jews because your article is shameful because it supports and excuses what Israel does. The bottom line Uri is that Zionist Jews living in Israel have no tolerance to anyone rising up against their hideous atrocities carried out against the Palestinian population starting with their mass expulsion 60 years ago. Jewish tolerance limited indeed! Israel has come to a point where it thinks it is Lord and Master, and can do what it pleases, but it won't last Uri, and I for one will be happy for that just as all hideous regimes of the past who thought they would last forever.
4. Proof all Zionists are kahanists
Shulamit   (03.11.08)
This article proves even the so called "left" in Israel is not different than the Kahanists and Baruch Goldstein. You have to choose between being a democracy or a Jewish state. Obviously you have chosen to abandon democracy and being part of the progressive enlightened world
5. from uri orbach's lips to g-d's ears
david ,   new york   (03.11.08)
6. You're absolutely right, but...
David Yashar ,   Cleveland, USA   (03.11.08)
Uri, I believe that if the current conduct of the Arab MKs and the vocal part of the Arab Israeli population continues, the pressure that you describe will build. But even if 90% of Jewish Israelis support the revocation of the citizenship of those found to be treasonous (Umm al Fahm stone throwers, the current bunch of Balad MKS, etc.), the Supreme Court would overrule any Knesset legislation. Since it, and not Israel's elected representatives, really rule Israel, the Arabs will be safely living here, undermining the country.
7. Tolerance
Jason ,   Zichron Yacov Israel   (03.11.08)
What a joke, the tolerance level for anti Israel sentiment amongst some Israeli Arabs should have been off the scale 25 years ago with the first intifada.
8. Pogrom yes or no
Tom   (03.11.08)
So in essence you're forecasting Jewish pogroms?
9. Do not trust them.
Jean Van Daem   (03.11.08)
The attitude of the Israeli Arabs to Israel can be summed up in a popular sayings: "take whatever you can and give nothing." For this reason they avoid paying taxes. At the same time they enjoy all the services and benefits which the state offers its citizens. Since they pay very little income tax, they are regarded statistically as belonging to the poor sector. But anybody who travels through Arab villages and towns in Israel is astonished by the wonderful villas of these "poor people". The Israeli Arabs are represented by three parties in the Knesset that are elected in free, democratic elections. One of them is officially communist, one officially Islamic, and one "national-democratic" but as far as their attitude to Israel as a Jewish state is concerned : they all openly wish for its disappearance although all of them swore allegiance to "the State of Israel and its laws" as described at: http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2007/12/enemy-within.html
10. #4 Shulamit -- Yeah, Ahmed, we were born with targets...
Scott ,   USA   (03.11.08)
painted on our backs.
11. What arabs and anti-zionists need to understand is..
Historical Observer ,   NY   (03.11.08)
Those of us who have open minds understand the grave differences between Israel's right to survival and the arab attempt to destroy their country. First thing you need to realize is that arabs are launching rockets and suicide attacks against innocent Israeli citizens. They are attacking the citizens of Israel, where the Nazis and all arab countries expelled, tortured, and murdered Jews without provocation. No Jews attacked their country, so the comparison falls short. The next thing you need to realize is that palestine is not a country, and it was never officially recognized by any arab or western country. It wasn't until the Jews finally arrived and fought for land they were given (legally) was this palestine being created. The palestinian territory (in it's last conception) consisted of Jordan, Syria, Israel, and few pieces elsewhere. Yet the palestinians only want to claim (today) the west bank and gaza as palestine? Why take the smallest pieces and nothing that was stolen from your arab neighbors? Finally, the expulsion of arabs is a defensive strategy and not a crime under international law. If a country is being attacked, it has a choice to defend by killing the enemy or protecting their borders by forcing them out. I think for the benefit of peace and safety to both sides, the expulsion of palestinian arabs who wish to attack Israelis is more than justified. Preservation of life on both sides is an acceptable solution. The only peaceful solution is the removal of the palestinians to an area that is not in conflict with Israel.
12. great words
Leon ,   Los Angeles   (03.11.08)
We, the Jews, have no intention to commit suicide and lose our Jewish State in the name of our democratic values.
13. I wonder who trust Zions
Abdulrasak ,   Somland   (03.11.08)
Yes they are not democratic they are Zions.... They are the ones who created hates around the world
14. There's no such thing as a "Palestinian"
Larry L. ,   London   (03.11.08)
but let's leave that aside for the moment, the Arab Muhammedans hate Jews more than they love their own life, so it's not "bad news"for them, they are happy to terminate themselves as long as they can express their hatred for Jews. Unfortunately, the left-wingers (including the Kadima Klown Show) don't get it.
15. Arab citizens of Israel
Devash ,   Yerushalayim   (03.11.08)
"The citizenship rights of Israeli Arabs are not conditioned on anything." Of course they are! They are conditioned on "democratic rights." But what about when the regime falls and is replaced by a Torah theocracy??? What then???
16. #4 - the choice between democracy and survival is easy
redmike ,   tel aviv   (03.11.08)
Many countries in Europe are now facing a choice between being Islamasized and their beloved democracies which are not in fact democracies but oligarchies. It is probably too late for Belgium and Holland and others are teetering on the brink. The others will have to decide and the decision will become easier when they see what happens to the ones that chose democracy. You seemingly know nothing about Kahane or Uri Orbach. Uri Orbach is a right wing and not left. Mike
17. Arabs need some lessons in loyalty to country
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (03.11.08)
What the Arabs don't get is that there is nothing wrong with being a minority. African Americans are loyal Americans despite suffering the worst forms of discrimination, including slavery. They could all say the hell with it, we hate this country. But they don't. They have served with distinction in every US war. Yes, some commit crimes, but these are common criminals, not nationalistic terrorits. I can't recall any African American who has been tried and convicted of treason. Native Americans also were victims of genocide. In World War II Navajo men served as code talkers in the war against Japan. The code was based on the Navajo language and was the only code that the Japanese never broke. They were in the middle of some fierce battles and some died. They could have said forget it. We won't help you after what you did to our grandfathers. But they didn't do that. They volunterered when asked to serve. The Arabs here could take a lesson.
18. #11: Where???
ME Observer   (03.11.08)
Preservation of life on both sides is an acceptable solution. The only peaceful solution is the removal of the palestinians to an area that is not in conflict with Israel Where, pray tell, will these people go? This makes a very nice academic argument, but implementing this is fantasy. Jordan: They already have a million Palestinians with citizenship. They don't want to see any more of these people. Egypt: would likely not take them in because of the many terrorist and extremist cells that exist within that group. That presentst a clear and present danger to the country. Remeber they have Muslim Brotherhood to deal with and they don't want to deal with more shadowy groups. Syria: No relations with Israel, and negotiations for any repatriation there would be lengthy with unpredictable results. Do you really want to increase the numbers to a state that sponsors terrorists? Lebanon: Views harshly at any Arab who has stepped foot into Israel. Any Pals sent there if they are not arrested on sight, would be given a wide berth and not allowed to settle into Lebanese society. I don't see it.
19. #3
Aharon   (03.11.08)
"The bottom line Uri is that Zionist Jews living in Israel have no tolerance to anyone rising up against their hideous atrocities carried out against the Palestinian population starting with their mass expulsion 60 years ago. " Is chanting "death to the Jews" rising up against Israelis? Or do you just like to be cool and mindlessly join the global anti-Zionist trend?
20. jewish tolerance has always been limited, VERY limited
(03.11.08)
21. simple
jsm   (03.11.08)
Its simple. Suicide missions pay well for the family. Remove that incentive. All but personal prperty is confiscated and the family deported. Define family as Husband/wife childeren,parents, brothers and sisters and there childern.
22. Israel is a normal country - Pogroms are normal too
Andrew ,   Miami,Fl   (03.11.08)
it would be one thing to have a little minority in your country that wants to be loyal - and does itsd best to assimilate while maintaining their culture... Its another to have a 5th column living inside of you - enjoying the benefits, all the while hating you and looking to tear it down If you have to make a pogom on the Arabs in Israel - it will be for all the right reasons dont feel guilty about it any normal people or country would do it - they would do it - and unfortuanlty - so can you
23. To #18 - ME Observer
Historical Observer ,   NY   (03.11.08)
"Where, pray tell, will these people go? This makes a very nice academic argument, but implementing this is fantasy." You are right, it is more of a fairy tale than a reality right now. But I don't know, maybe viewpoints will change. In any case, for my personal opinion, the only two likely places where palestinians should be re-settled peacefully is Jordan or Egypt. Reason for Jordan: The trans-jordan region was (or is) the majority of land which was labeled as their sacred Palestine. Living there would be the most logical solution. However, since Black September, this may be dangerous if not impossible now. Reason for Egypt: It was the last true war with Israel and the only other country besides Jordan that has a peace treaty with Israel. Egypt made the bold move to visit Israel and bold ideas require bold moves. Where in Egypt? If all arguments are put aside and re-settlement becomes bigger than a simple a thought, one good suggestion I've read is the Sinai as the "new" Palestine. I did not publish this idea first of course: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/948907.html But Many good points go with Sinai as a great site for palestinians. It's bordered on Israel, they've practically built a subway (or smuggling tunnels if you will), and it's technically Israeli land that was given away for peace after the Yom Kippur War. Why not put aside a portion of the Sinai Penninsula for palestinians and let them build their own country? It's all a fantasy, but is there a better suggestion than war?
24. ZioNazi Morons
Blame Herzel ,   ZioNaziStan   (03.11.08)
Palestinians will be "settled" ONLY in their stolen Palestine. Only mentally disadvantaged morons can think that this land theft will be forgotten.
25. Unbelievable arrogrance
Layla ,   Nazareth   (03.11.08)
To all those who think that you can discuss and determine the destiny of the Palestinians who hold citizenship in this great Jewish democratic experiment called Israel, dream on. \We are not going anywhere. You will have to carpet bomb and nuke Nazareth, Umm al Fahm, Sakhnin, Shafa 'Amr, Tarshiha, Kfar Kana and on and on, and kill us all, because there's no way we will leave our homes and families here. We didn't leave during the 2006 Lebanon war when missiles were flying everywhere. You did though. The north was empty of everyone but Arabs and the poor, mostly Russian immigrants who had nowhere else to go. When the going gets tough, the "tough" (you) sure do get going fast. It's all becoming so clear now ... you want recognition from Abu Mazen for your Jewish state, so you can international approval for you plan to transfer us out of here. Like I said, dream on. You can take your racism and fascism and shove it. The arrogance ... you stole (and continue to steal) our land, kicked out our brethren, and now you want to implement your "final solution" (i.e. getting rid of the rest of us). Reality check. We are here to stay. You might reconsider how you want to talk to us, because we may be the only people who will be able to convince the others to let you stay when they eventually break down the prisons walls you have built for them, just like they did at Rafah. Peace.
26. #24 Jews are Palestinians too Moron
Historical Observer ,   NY   (03.11.08)
I think you want to read up on history before you copy moronic remarks and titles. Blame Herzel doesn't point to anything intelligent, and I think you want to say Blame Balfour. ZioNazi, semi-clever, but completely misleading. The Nazi title is purely shock and awe with no connection to Zionism. It's cute but only Nazis can be Nazis:) It just opens to the door to call anyone with an aggressive trait a Nazi, but it doesn't enhance an argument now, does it? Land Theft, would you like to list some balanced examples of arabs stealing land from Jews through the late 19th and early 20th century. Do you think the Jewish population were nomadic for the last 5000 years? Where were they living and what happened to their land in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, etc.? Seems to me that you have easily forgotten the land theft of one group and want to focus simply on the other... The re-settlement of the arab palestinian population is not a total solution and I'm sure the opposition will be strong, but is there a better solution besides war? Learn to argue, not to just post hate. Jews have been living in region with an ever changing name for thousands of years (call it Filistin, Judea, Israel, pallywood, etc.)
27. Myth of Jewish Tolerance
Gadees ,   Vanco.   (03.11.08)
Arabs were the least nation to mistreat Jews.This documented fact in all historical refrences shows the depth of cultural commitment to fellow humans.Should Israel however,persist on forging this course of hatred,then we shall be obliged to treat you like wise and you will have no shoulder to rest your head on.
28. To #25 - Arabs just as arrogant
Historical Observer ,   NY   (03.11.08)
I think there is nothing wrong with discussing a solution, but you can sit back and watch the suicide bombs or watch the missiles fly on both sides. What are you afraid of here, listening to reason? Not going anywhere is fine, nobody wants to kick out those who want to live in Israel. It is those that are fighting and killing innocent civilians that are creating an unfortunate situation. This is a Jewish country, recognize that and peace will follow. If you don't like Israel, then leave and form a better society rather than ruin the progress and future of the living. The carpet bombing and attacks is killing more innocent arabs and instilling more fear and hate in the region, that's not progress. There must be a better way, and that should be the goal of all Middle Eastern residents, Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. By saying you didn't leave during this conflict or this attack means nothing. Jews stood their ground in WWII and were killed where they stood. Arabs revolted in their home countries against their Jewish neighbors and dragged us off to be lynched, tortured, and murdered. We loved living in our Arab countries, but were forced to leave everything behind. If it's alright to kick out the Jews, why is it so far-fetched to request those that don't want to live here to re-settle where they ARE wanted? The only thing that should come clear to you after all this time is that there is no great Jewish conspiracy, no truth to any blood libel, and nothing but lies printed in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I know you think these are great ways to blame the Jews, but they are all just fuel for an antisemitic fire which we never started. The real truth you should realize by now is that Jews will "Never Again" be pushed off their land or allow the Holocaust to happen. We will stay here to fight for our homeland, our holy sites, and our beautiful culture. Could you imagine if Jews or Christians decided to settle in Mecca, how open would the arab world be to such ideas? I think it is very clear which state is more tolerant of the other's culture. The arrogance is left solely on your shoulders because you are afraid to listen to an opposing view and see the end as a positive solution. This is not a final solution because nobody wants to rid themselves of arabs. We loved them as our neighbors in their country and we get along with them in our country. The reality is that arabs will need to assimilate into a Jewish country and those that hate us will have to leave eventually. I think you may want to reconsider your tone when speaking of those that are the true government of this country. The walls of prisons may fall, but if push comes to shove I pray you don't ever see how powerful and mighty the fight to survive will be. In the end, I hope you can find the courage to speak to another Israeli about a solution rather than the next fight. A peaceful solution requires re-settlement, it's only a matter of time, I'm sorry if you wish to remain arrogant on this topic.
29. There's A Bottom To Every Well
Not Jewish ,   USA   (03.12.08)
When the Jews eventually lose their collective cool because of Arab Muslim aggression, the Islamic world will get a lethal taste of their own intolerance. I believe that the violent, uncompromising Muslim mentality will be the catalyst that brings the final confrontation that will usher in Greater Israel. Am Yisrael Chai
30. #25 -
Joe ,   Israel   (03.12.08)
"You will have to carpet bomb and nuke Nazareth, Umm al Fahm, Sakhnin, Shafa 'Amr, Tarshiha, Kfar Kana and on and on, and kill us all" Don't worry, it's coming. "The north was empty of everyone but Arabs and the poor" Assuming thats true, maybe its because Jews actually value their lives? And you don't even dare question Jewish loyalty to the land. We came back after 2000 years of persecution and built an amazing country in just under 60 years, something the Arabs, who apparently have so much connection and love for the land, did not even attempt to do in the thousands of years they were there. Arabs sure had no problem leaving their houses in 1948 with the threat of war looming (most of these Arabs who only immigrated to Palestine when Jews started returning in large numbers). Pathetic, prior to 1967 all Arabs considered Palestine to be southern Syria. Now out of nowhere, Palestine has always been an independent Arab country that was stolen by Jews. Pathetic.
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