Jewish Scene
Educational institute refuses to hold event for gay students
Neta Sela
Published: 02.04.08, 11:48
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13 Talkbacks for this article
1. By definition the Conservative Movemnt don't respect Halacha
LEE ,   NY, USA   (04.02.08)
Otherwise they wouldn't need to be termed by any other name. The only path that will always remain the path is The Path (Halacha). All the rest are just watered down versions legitimizing that which is illegitimate per Torah Law.
2. "And Women Belong On A Bemah Like Oranges On A Sedar Plate"
David ,   Marietta USA   (04.02.08)
And just because vegetarians have a crackpot idea of what makes sense to eat doesn't mean eating steak is wrong, much less offensive. Some of you people out there are pretty pathetic creatures. I hate to break the news to you, but gay Rabbis actually exist, and we don't share the Catholic's belief in purgatory and eternal hell fire and damnation! Sooner or later, you are going to have to come to grips with the reality of life in the 19th, oops, 21st Century.
3. What the hell difference does it make
Talula ,   Israel   (04.02.08)
if a gay or lesbian wants to become a rabbi. Why should it make the slightest bit of difference to ANYONE what their sexual preference is? Everyone having a problem with this needs to get a life!!!!! Not everyone wants to be consumed by a religion; some people are happy taking Judaism lightly and give what THEY want to give. Gay and Lesbian rabbis are a great, leave them alone.
4. #2 & #3
LEE ,   NY, USA   (04.02.08)
#2- David with all do respect, the fact that we live in 21st century has no relevance on eternal Truths. The only things we can know for sure as truths are those things that come from the Creator Himself. Regarding homosexual acts He has forbidden them in the clearest terms: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22) One of the principles of our faith (refer to Maimonidies 13 Princinples) is that G-d is Eternal, Timeless, and so is His Word. He surely doesn't need one of His creations to inform Him what century we're in and or to teach Him when his teachings are relevant or not. And I hate to break it to you, but homosexual acts are not an invention of the 19th or 21st centuries. They were around in the 19th and 21st century B.C. as well, and precisely in those times do we find the story of Sodom and we all know how that ended up. #3- "Not everyone wants to be consumed by a religion". If so, then certaintly he/she should pick a different profession then being a Rabbi, wouldn't you say? And since a Rabbi is explicitly a Torah-based spiritual advisor it makes a huge difference if he prefers to have sexual relations with another man. As a Torah-based advisor, he cannot condone that which the Torah explicitly condemns. And if he decides to condemn it as well while practicing the opposite, then he's a hypocrate and inherently not fit to be a Rabbi. Per the Torah, Judaism is not what you "want to give", its what you are commanded to do. The tolerance that you both have toward "gay" individuals is understandable. Avraham our father, had much sympathy for them as well. He pleaded for them, and prayed to avert their destruction. That's the good nature of a Jew. He pleaded for them though, and not for their acts. The acts themselves should be vehemntly condemned because as we learned long ago, we are indeed our brother's keeper and what he does directly effects the consequences on us. If a Jew sins he negatively effects the consequences on himself as well as on all Klal Israel, and vice versa. That's why we should care and should speak out against those who take up positions of influence that attempts to legitimize that which our Creator condemns.
5. #3 - Not everyone wants to be consumed by a religion...
Stan ,   USA   (04.02.08)
So they should take that into consideration before trying to take a career that is consumed by religion. Do you demand "equal rights" that atheists should be Rabbis? Does that make sense? You shouldn't be a Rabbi if you don't believe in what that entails: Beliving in and acting in accord with Jewish law. If you want to be Gay, whatever, but it doesn't make sense to demand that you should be a Rabbi too.
6. #4, Lee, RE "Abomination"
David ,   Marietta USA   (04.02.08)
Other abominations: eating shrimp, or not killing your neighbor for his failing to observe the Sabbath. Personally, if I had my druthers about eating shrimp or lying my male neighbor who is not observing the Sabbath, I would choose shrimp myself. As for lying with my neighbor's wife or eating the shrimp, that one is a no brainer, I'll take the shrimp anytime. Be that as it may, God created man in his own image. That includes gay men, and they have been around since we came down from the trees (or is the concept of evolution also disavowed by Torah?). If you choose to keep your 2000BCE truths as absolute, that's fine with me, but don't expect me to offer you any respect for your quaint but somewhat cockamamie ideas. It makes you look a lot like the Taliban or our other Middle Eastern cousins. Personally, I enjoy the brain God gave me to use in the 21st Century. Final word on evolution in this Passover season. When Moses asks God his name, God answers, as best the Hebrew will translate: "Tell Pharoah my name is 'I am that which I am becoming'" Even God believed in evolution and change, way back then... If it was good enough for God, perhaps it should be good enough for you.
7. #6- David
LEE ,   NY, USA   (04.03.08)
You are correct. Men who practice same-sex relations are indeed made in G-d's image. So? Does that condone their acts? Why the correlation? After all, every human being is made in G-d's image. As far as evolution, I'm failing to understand what that has to do with the subject. Are you talking about physical evolution or social evolution? If you are talking about physical evolution, then I should remind you that we received the Torah 3,320 years ago. Not much has physically evolved from since then. As far as social evolution, are you of the opinion that the Torah was given (with fanfare and wonders) only for that specific generation? You mentioned Passover, so I assume you can understand the reasons why repeat the same story every year (as well as other holidays- Shavuot, Sukkot, etc..) which all relate the story of the Exodus and the giving of the Torah (we can add Tefilin, Mezuzah, Birkat Hamazon and the daily prayers to the list) . Don't you think its a little bit foolish to celebrate any of these things if the Torah is no longer relevant? Evolution is not a subject that effects Torah Law. It only effect Hashkafa (Torah perspective) and there's no inherent problem in believing in the Theory of Evolution. I would refer you to a book called "Genesis and the Big Bang" by Gerald Schroeder. A very interesting read. As far as G-d's name, your translation is off since you use the transitive "becoming". That is incorrect. The translation from the Hebrew is "I will be that I will be" which does not indicate any change. And its no coincidence that you decided not to refer to Him by His most essential name consisting of the same letters as the hebrew words: was, is, and will be. G-d does not change. And finally, for a proof from the Torah itself: "For I am the Lord, I do not change" (Malachi 3:)
8. American gays are VERY spiritual, so why not?
Yaakov Sullivan ,   NYC   (04.03.08)
9. the other side of the story
Jerusalem, Israel   (04.03.08)
check out this article for a fuller story: http://jewschool.com/2008/03/31/jewschool-exclusive-machon-schechter-slams-its-students/
10. The Conservative Movement would be better to embrace all
Eli ,   Jerusalem   (04.03.08)
Conservative Judaism is a dying movement, and its tradition is to take a more modern philosophy to orthodoxy. Such an approach actually has the opportunity to be quite popular given the return to orthodoxy by many Jews who want simultaneously that orthodoxy be updated from post-1700s Poland. It seems the Conservative Movement would be best served to live within the parameters of its founders, which as its own Rabbinic rulings have stated, allow gay men and women to participate fully in religious life. Why the sudden change of thought?
11. Conservatives
Orthodox Jew ,   Israel   (04.04.08)
Reform and Conservative Judaism will die out soon due to lack of members because of intermarriage, low birthrate, homosexuality ,assimilation, etc. Only the Orthodox will remain real Jews, so who cares what the Reform and Conservative do anyway? They are NOT the future of the Jewish people. It's just sad that they've broken off from Torah Judaism, and made their own religions.
12. what the article doesn't say
I.N.Cognito ,   Brooklyn, USA   (04.04.08)
the "compromise" (if it can be called that) meant turning a talk into a debate with someone from Israeli Conservative community... I hope Ramon understands that this will drive away Jewish students from the US. Currently, the year in Israel is mandatory, but I wonder how much it will take for JTS to open a branch in Jerusalem and have their students study with JTS's own teachers, instead of financially supporting Schechter.
13. # 6 David, You dare to speak for G-d?
petra ,   usa   (04.04.08)
complete with evolution? I think I'd rather read His words than yours... Your commentary isn't so sage or wise. His on the other hand is the worlds best seller. Your theory's not.
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