Testimonies from Hebron: Soldiers choke, beat Palestinians
Hanan Greenberg
Published: 18.04.08, 15:56
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61. To Terry #12. Clear TB. I second it.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (04.19.08)
62. Judging the whole bunch based on a few bad apples
Shachar ,   NY USA   (04.19.08)
These are isolated stories which occur VERY infrequently. It is strongly enforced in the IDF to punish and send such soldiers to jail. The stories portrayed here reflect individual soldiers, NOT the entire IDF. It is as statistically likely for these soldiers to be crazy as it is for any regular civilian. The IDF did not train these soldiers to act like this, they are simply crazy on their own. The fact that other soldiers are telling these stories as if it is an ongoing and regular problem is quite disheartening. Shame on these soldiers for feeding into the palestinian propaganda machine!! It is VERY easy to point out slight flaws in a system, but how many people are pointing out how humane and civil the IDF is? The IDF is the most kind and humane army in the world; no other army can compare to the IDF's humane conduct! We risk our soldiers to carry out isolated and surgically presice missions without killing innocent civilians. When innocent civilians are killed, it is by accident and never on purpose like what Hamas and other terrorist organizations are doing!!!
63. turn yourselves in
israeli ,   israeli   (04.19.08)
Any soldier engaging in such horrific behavior should turn himself in and asked to be prosecuted. We have seen quite a few cases here on ynet where soldiers abusing civilians were tried and sentenced. These should be no exception. They are no heroes: instead of having the courage to pay for their crimes they are besmirching the State of Israel and an entire army. They are currently touring the world exposing their own crimes. Can you imagine a Nazi touring the world boasting I did this and that? Or I saw other doing such and such? If they don't turn themselves in perhaps the Military Police can track them down and deal with them. For those attacking the IDF, please remember that it is perhaps the only army in the world that does not rape, as revealed in an academic research.
64. Very suspicious
Mike ,   Petach Tikva   (04.19.08)
Who are the soldiers who are telling all of this? Why didn't they fight the soldiers they saw doing this stuff. I would have beat the guy who used the wire into a pulp.
65. The pot calling the kettle black, Abdel?
Cameron ,   USA   (04.19.08)
When you & yours get to work on your own attitude and behavior, I daresay you'll see an equal improvement in theirs, #53.
Michael ,   eilat, israel   (04.19.08)
I'm right wing and really in favor of hard retalation again arabs who mess up with us...BUT if this report it is a shame and those guys have to arrested and sent to psychiatic hospital! We are jews! We have to be fair and NEVER act the same ways our ennemis act. Good bless and protect and good man, palestinian or jew.... Long live to my proud country Israel!
67. #53
and your suicide bombers and palestinian arab criminals slaughtering jews and israelis HAS ALSO BEEN GOING ON FOR FAR FAR FAR TOO TOO TOO LONG! understand that once palestinian arabs choose to live in peace and recognize the jewish state's right to exist and forget about killing jews and israelis, then there won't be torture, check points, road blocks. you brought this on yourselves by violent behavior. we are just trying to circumvent and protect ourselves.
68. What's interesting...
MIcha   (04.19.08)
is that as Jews, we do lots of self examination...and we get criticized if we find something wrong about ourselves. I have yet to really find any articles at all about arab/moslem the impression to all is that, well, the arabs/moslems must be perfect. I guess they make no mistakes. Why #24 is always criticizing the Jews, but yet he/she has yet to criticize the arabs/moslems, undoubtedly his/her own people. So, lest we be swayed to condemn the whole bunch for the poor behavior of what hopefully is a minority..let's take a look at what this means. This means the Jews accept responsibility. The Jews accept not being perfect. The Jews accept criticizing themselves. This does not mean that arabs/moslems are free to use as a "told you so". This should be used as a "Oh, so that's how we should examine OURselves as well." Now go educate yourselves.
69. #12: These wars were lost
Damir ,   Russia   (04.19.08)
I think I spot the trend. In Chechnya htese atrocities were committed during the first phase of war where Federal troops were definitely losing up to the point of the withdrawal. But when Moscow got an upper hand and war was quickly won there was no place (and no need) for tortures. The soldiers became different too. What I'd like to say something is going wrong in Hebron. This is no way to win... well, call it a war. It took whole new President in Russia (Putin) to break the situation.
70. thanks for nothing again ynet
busy trying hard to ,   make jews look bad   (04.19.08)
Best israeli blog at ,   (04.19.08)
72. ynet is kinda lefty.
73. To Eitan #59. Not EVEN A Penny.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (04.19.08)
You write :"I don't see how stress makes you steal and enjoy bullying unarmed people ". I agree with you that one should NOT steal and bully unarmed people. That point was made by Terry in #12 and further clarified in #35. However when armed gang members are bullied and treated harshly by the IDF -- I will not mind that ; that is perfectly allowed. BUT in NO cases one should steal. BTW the possessions of armed gang members can be confiscated by the IDF -- and everything should go to the State ; nothing, not EVEN a penny, should go to the IDF soldiers /officers.
74. this is both sick and not surprising of IDF
though on the positive side there are people with decency out there in israel that care to share this instead of keeping it in the down low and ignore it like it doesnt happen-which incriminates israel more, by the way. the noble thing for israel to do now is to crack downon these kind of actions. it is stupid for anyone to try to justify the IDF's actions by comparing them to others. israel prides itself publicly on how democratic and people of integrity they are, now lets see them prove it when the chance arises.
75. To Micha #68. Beginning To Realize.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (04.19.08)
You write :".. the Arabs/Muslims must be perfect, they make no mistakes ". That is true -- they were thinking like that for so many centuries. But now, since a few years, they, and that is not a few, are beginning to realize that after all they are NOT perfect. These buds, here and there, who are trying to speak out in self-reflection -- are being attacked by the Wahabbis, in Europe known as the Salafists. As you know, the Wahabbi-taught originated and is wide-spread in Saudi Arabia, and is being exported by Saudi Arabia. SO, the Wahabbis are saying to those budding self-examining Arabs/Muslims :'No, we Arabs/Muslims, we are perfect. Just believe that. You have to believe that. If you will not believe -- we will hit you, we will beat you up'. THIS is happening in The Netherlands at the moment. At the moment there is struggle going on in The Netherlands between those two groups : the self-reflectors and the Wahabbis.
76. It's not a problem of the army
Tom   (04.19.08)
These things happen when the military rules a territory with resistent population, and Israel's army is not less humane than most others. The problem lies in Israeli and Palestinian societies who consistently choose this kind of situation, the occupation, where these brutal things INEVITABLY happen. It's a choice, a preference, of both societies.
77. #75 I'm intrigued by your analysis
Debbie ,   Seattle   (04.19.08)
and I wonder what role are the non-Muslims playing in this controversy, if at all. Are they confused, indifferent, afraid to get involved, or actively trying to support the less fanatical factions.
78. #12 Terry - Don't ever stop posting your TBs.
Debbie ,   Seattle   (04.19.08)
I look for them in every article published by Ynet. They are the voice of reason in a very complex society.
79. To #75..maansingh
Micha   (04.20.08)
thanks much for your comments. I didn't know that conflict was taking place in the Netherlands. I do hope that the native population does enter the mix and support the reasonable, reflective, moderate groups. Unfortunately, the natives' participation may not be welcome as is sometimes the case. Are there any articles you can recommend on the topic?
80. Too convenient..
siggy ,   Raleigh, NC   (04.20.08)
All of a sudden this is coming out? Does anyone really believe you can keep stuff like this secret for very long? Carter is making waves, rockets are flying again and all of a sudden it's about Israel and the Palestinian victims. The word in French, I believe, is bullshit.
81. Business as usual. Israel + America = THE SAME.
Yesenia   (04.20.08)
like father like son. israel like america. no surprises here.
82. Pace, fratelli!
Donato Pecorella ,   Italia   (04.20.08)
Peace & Love, brothers, in the name of God!
83. That word covers a lot of ground in the ME, #80
Cameron ,   USA   (04.21.08)
84. To #79 + #77. Logic, Reason And Arguments.
Maansingh ,   The Netherlands   (04.21.08)
To Micha. You asked :"Are there any articles ?" Micha, I don't visit their sites. FROM time to time the activities of the Wahabbis captures the attention of public TV -- and so it appears on the News and news related programs. They sometime appear in talk shows of public TV -- that is how I get my info about the 2 groups. You write :"I do hope the native population does enter the mix ..". The Muslims themselves (and thus without native involvement) should solve their internal understandings using logic, reason and arguments -- the beating up, threats on lives by the Wahabbis should NOT be used. To Debbie #77 : Members of religions should be able to question their own religion -- without fear of getting beaten up, threats on their lives. TO question one's religion makes one a healthy practitioner of religion. So, questioning should NOT be discouraged. It is a healthy and health-inducing activity -- and thus, I would not call it controversy.
85. Sounds familiar
G ,   US   (04.21.08)
This sounds too much like a report in the US where a supposed soldier witnessed such atrocities that were Unbelievable. Unbelievable indeed!!. It Finally came out the guy was a liar. Yet the news media stuck by him through and though to the Very End. Maybe some should read Rabbi Meir Kahane's "Dear World" to get some perspective. Also watch "Farewell Israel" and LEARN what's in store for Israel. History is surely repeating itself, Again!.
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