The last thing i need is a religious publicist like Orbach patronising me

For today on I'll improve my judaism, Live it with more strengh, in order do make it a model for others. That's what I will do. For the love of the G-d of Israel..to make survive its people and nation. Thank you for the article.

Just from a demographics point of view, thats what the next 50 years look like. Ben Gurion may have wanted seculars to control, but religious demographics look like they will get stronger, even with all the immigrants from the FSU. What will it mean? Hmm, some good, some bad, but its the future. I do hope that Israeli religious and diaspora Jews can connect closer. This future also holds true from diaspora Jews. In 50 years the majority of all Jews will be orthodox and with 4 children.

To this day, I remember being struck by a poster in the university Hillel House in the 1970's. Yes, I understood the intent - that with almost everyone Jewish, you're no longer the odd man out. But the formulation still struck me as disturbing. While much can be absorbed from a Jewish environment - even non-Jews learn by hanging around us - a true understanding and appreciation comes from engagement and challenge. But Israel's liberal/leftist orientation, more than its consumer tendencies, undermines the core values of Torah, land and people-hood. They teach that devotion to the land is "idolatry", Jewish traditions are "archaic", and that the other is victim of our cruelty. It's not surprising that even the holidays lose their meaning, becoming an occasion for foreign travel or outdoor barbecues. It's not surprising the leadership is ready to cede even Jewish sacred sites because, well, they mean nothing to them. And yet, the Jewish spark remains alive in Israel, as evidenced by a higher adherence to Jewish traditions - e..g. candle lighting on Shabbat and Chanukah, Pesah seders, Yom Kippur fasting - than is found in the US. That spark needs to be encouraged, free of coercion and the machinations of the religious parties.

there is no Judaism in Israel, but Jews.

Let's hope that Israeli Judaism survives forever, seculars, conservative, orthodox, but quick, let's dump Israeli Zionism down the toilet before it starts World War III and kills us all.

I came to Israel 25 years ago and my biggest disappointment here is the state of Judaism. I found that many Jews here, although they have little real understanding of Judaism, hate it. Why do they hate it? Because the Haredi cult has hijacked Judism and declared that they are the true Jews, and the rest of us go along with it. What does the average secular Jew see: these Haredi true Jews don't serve in the army live off our tax dollars, steal our money throgh their corrupt MKs and try to force their warped practices down our throats, and then spit on us.

to create an environment where secular Jews can live in a place permeated with Jewish culture? Isn't that kind of like lapsed Catholics moving to the Vatican so they can be immersed in something they only marginally participate in? It's kind of like depending on your surroundings for the religious aspect of your life because you don't want to be bothered actually being religious yourself, isn't it? I don't know if I'd call that a "great accomplishment. Strange. I don't see that being worth the violence it's caused. Especially since so many cultures have accomplished the exact same thing in cities around the world without similar degrees of violence. They're called minority communities. We've got tons of 'em in the U.S. Some of them are Jewish. All you have to do is move into the same neighborhood, and pretty soon you've got a community going. So what's the big deal?

1) The enormous number of ham-scarfing non-Jewish Russians have changed the environment for a long time to come, including the army, they are also in charge of the organs which olim would deal with. 2) Israel is now ruled by the puppets of a corrupt billionaire oligarchy. The disgusting failure Olmert and his fellow-clowns are only there to fatten themselves, and don't give a damn about Israel's future. These people were voted in by only about 20% of the population, but today the general population is too apathetic or stunned to kick the bums out.

Can any form of Liberal-Progressive Judaism survive anywhere? NO!!! Only faith-based Judaism can survive.

Your comments are right on target. In fact, if the Palestinians ever got the hell off Israel's back, the next conflict would probably be a civil war between Israelis and Haredi Jews.

I worked in a place in America where most of the people were Jewish. I thought, Oh, Fantastic, I'll be working with my own. But over time, I find that many of them cared very little about their Judiaism. Many were beyond secular, to the point of being materialstic. I see the asimilation happening before my very eyes. It's to the point where they talk very fondly of rap music. I shudder at the thought. Several people were of interfaith background, and it showed. At the birthday of an employee, someone who supposedly was Jewish, started talking about the xtian deity, and how fondly a close relative was to praying to it. I tried to steer the talk to another topic, as I thought maybe others in the room did not want to move to that subject. Unfortunately, it was to no avail. It took someone talking about the big bad boss to change the subject. Judaism can survive in USA if people don't intermarry so much. It doesn't really matter what stream-it's intermarriage that can make things precarious. Also important is getting children involved in the Jewish community and with shul. Continuing Jewish education of both adults and children is essential. Without these three ingredients, I don't see it.

That is the 'fact'

if all the jews have the choice survival of israil or survival of judism.i think most of them will choose survival of israil and i think the end result will be survival of judism .with this little supporters . but i see jews will aske the world openion about this choice and most of the world who are not jewish will support israil survival but at least judism will survive more than israil as it did without this israil ... sure iam not jewish but it is my openion on religion and any state

Out of experience of meeting secular Jewish Israelis: most Israeli Secular Jews are more assimilated than non-observant Jews in the Diaspora. And they are less aware of symbolic barriers between Judaism and the Goyim: they fall for non-Jewish behaviour more than do Diaspora Jews. This doesn't bode well. Also, seems to indicate that a more "realistic" goal for Israeli-Palestinian peace may be a three-state rather than a two-state solution. Haifa-Tel-Aviv-Coastal-plain (secular of both peoples), Jerusalem and West-Bank-Settlements (Jewish Observant), West-Bank-Gaza (Palestinian)

someone once told me, "Don't forget to remind Israelis that they are Jewish!" In respnse to another writer; I sometimes believe that the only way to keep peace between Jews is to have a common enemy. there was a time a few years ago when the datiim would burn down bus stancions with bikini ads and the seculars would retaliate by burning synagogues. Oh I do believe that there could b civil war: dati vs. chiloni.

i agree with your statment completly however i feel that a way to fix the problem in america is by going to visit israel. i went to israel for 2 months during school and thats where i realized my judaism and appreciated it, not by living as an outsider in America

Very interesting article. The fact is, that for now, non-religious Israelis still stay within the Jewish fold, while non-religious Jews in the Galut will be leaving the Jewish People forever. Only the Orthodox in the Galut will have Jewish descendants.

All of my non-religious relatives in Israel have married Jewish, whereas most of my non-religious relatives in the States have married non-Jews. How can this be any clearer?

After reading the article and other people's comments, I've noticed a lot of animosity and paranoia toward the consept of Russian "non-Jews" supposedly distroying Israel's judaism. May I remind you ladies and gentelmen that the fact that Israel exist, is mostly thanks to the so called "non Jews" from eastern Europe and Russia. Most of the first alyas were full of Jews from Russia, and don't forget the Eastern European background of Israel's founding fathers and noted politicians like Chaim Weizmann, David Ben-Gurion, Yitzhak Rabin, Moshe Dayan, Ariel Sharon and there are more, too many to list them all. Without them dear Orthodox Jews (that by the way not so fond of Zionism) you would've still be sitting in some closed Ghetto in a foreign country, fixing sandals and peddlering what ever comes into your hands. It's not enought that most Orthodoxs don't sereve in the army and live on a welfare supplied to them from tax paying citizens (including those horrible "non-Jews"), they are dictating us who should be considered a Jew and who should be denied his blood rights. Blood is thicker than any ideology or paper provided by a presiding rabi and it's not our fault that in Soviet Union we were robbed of Jewish education and lifestyle. I consider myself a Jew and no one can take it away from me exept God (Hadonai Kadosh Barucho Le Nezah Nezahim ve Tishmor Otanu me Oevim ve Ahinu she Lo Rozim Otanu). Dear Uri Orbach may God give you vision to see the truth withougth discrimination and the wisdom to correct your grammatical mistakes before you submit an article in English.

Canada.you should down your tone. And let me tell you,the first alyas since our dispersion from the destruction of the first Temple started around 1700ths and were made of Jews-ortodox Jews-comming from Poland,Hungary,Moravia,Lithuania... So,our return started in fact by Hasidim and ortodod Jews in general. Get your facts straight before being so bully.

not being precise. The alyas I was talking about are the ones that started since the beginning of a Zionist movement that consisted of mostly Eastern European Jews (end of 19th- beginning of 20th centuries), fact which I've learned in Israeli school just like everyone else in Israel. This particular population later laied the founding stones of creation of Democratic State of Israel. As for me being pretentious for someone talking from Canada, holds no water. My loctaion can be in Tibet as far as someone cares. I'm an Israeli citizen (with legal papers- for those particularly conserned) and have the right to express my opinon. By the way when refering to Orthodoxs, I've stressed the word MOST, I know that some Othodoxs are normal citizens and pay their taxes and serve in the army (unfortunately these Othodoxs are in minority). As for being a bully, that was not in my intentions. The hostile style of my adress came from the frustration at the fact that many people in Israel forget about the important contributions that came from Jews of Eastern European and particularly Russian origins. The automatic stigma of "non-Jews" that is being attached to people of my origin is hurtful and dividing, especially when in Russia we were considered Jews and discriminated accordingly. Peace...

From Donniel Hartman and Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem. This is a regular and important concern here. http://www.hartman.org.il/Opinion_C_View_Eng.asp?Article_Id=74

You might have not noticed ,maybe because you left Israel,but yes,there is an HUGE amount of russians GOYIM in Israel,HUGE.They hang their crosses under our nose,without any concern.And most of them even don't care learning Hebrew ,and they eat and sell pork under our nose,despising our culture and religion. I heard from one of these goyas that Israel "has the obligation"to have them as citizens,since we had lived in their country for so long. (Yes,I know...we lived under their pogroms...)

providing this interesting article link. It's encouraging to know that this issue is being discussed, though knowing the Israeli goverment if something would be done, it will be done by the time I'll have my grandkids. Thanks again. To Keren - Yes I'm familiar with these people that you are talking about (especially those that don't want to learn Hebrew and think that everyone should learn Russian instead - a result of years of Soviet system drilled through your head that you are better than anyone else in the world), but they are in minority compared to plenty of normal people from Russia that just want to live their lives peacefully, raise their children and integrate into society. When you hear someone speaking Russian it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't want to learn Hebrew, a lot of Russian immigrants are old (wich makes extremely difficult to learn a new language the older you are), others just want their kids to be bilingual - NOT at expense of Hebrew (the more languages you know the better). As for people wearing crosses, what about Christian Arabs, Chatolics in Jerusalem and Nazareth etc..., Israel had and has her share of christians. Are you going to forbid them to wear crosses too? When I go to a foreign country, I expect to be respected by gentiles as a Jew, its only fair that I'll respect other religions too.

I have the feeling you are not aquainted with the Soul of Israel.I have the feeling you are aquainted to a wrong(for sure) ,let's say,western like ,leftist point of view-a point of view that do not suit Israel,even if you think it does. Start reflecting more ,out of this closed box TV has shown and taught you. We are an older people than this short ,let's say again,"helenized"world you are living now,at the moment.Don't get pasteurized! (Ah,and those truly humble and who don't feel "superior"to others,do not teach agressively others how they have to correct their English-as you did in your first talk back,and by the way,very impolitely )

My English is ,technicaly ,maybe ,not as good as it could,but I am able to express myself.And ,by English being not my first language,I guess it is pretty ok to just express what I need ,even without being perfect. But anyway,your agressivity touched me for its rude and almost evil tone,because I really don't care for the fact per si,and I guess the author of this article, to which you words were directed,don't care too.I hope.

You are wrong to say that I'm not acquainted with the Soul of Israel - her soul is big and wide and has many sides, unfortunately people like you see only one small side that they were taught to see by their parents. Sadly you are blind to the reality that Israel is facing, when you refuse to see other sides. I didn't grow up with a TV - box mentality like most of my peers, only because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I'm less spiritual. It amused me when you called me a leftie, since I don't belong to Left or Right. I have mixed opinions and I don't belong to either of these groups. I'm afraid that people who hold like-minded opinions as yours would bring us to the ruination of Israel. More and more Israelis (pure Sabras) immigrate to the " Hellenized" world because they're tired of Orthodox dominance over every aspect of Israeli life. In these difficult times, Israel is loosing more and more jews, because certain people refuse to recognise Reformed, Conservative and etc... denominations of Judaism. I don't want you to be surprised when one morning you'll wake up and discover that your neighbors are Kasim, Hasan and Ahmad who are known for their tolerance toward Jews in general regardless of their denomination or lack off. Shalom

"Only in Israel do seculars have the opportunity to... wed, and divorce, be born and die as Jews, and all that without observing the mitzvahs." Wow, the choice of the word "opportunity" sure is an interesting one considering the connection between religion and state in Israel. I think someone as knowledgable as Uri Orbach could describe the monopoly of Orthodox Judaism in matters of marriage and divorce - and 'near monopoly' on burial, with an alternative word! Joel Katz http://religionandstateinisrael.blogspot.com/