you related to # 12 "Aron"? You need to read up on HISTORY and try using your head for something other than to just hold your ears in place.

The "civilized world" decided that Yugoslavia and Serbia, a perenial thorn in their side, had to be divided up to create new states that would be more "amenable" to their point of view. And the UN is now going along with this plan ILLEGALLY, in the case of Kosovo. The UN is a guarantor of nothing and no one, and you know it well, so stop ranting and raving. Much of the "civilized world" views Israel as a thorn in their side, and if Israel were to be conquered by the Arabs, the "civilized world" would accept the status quo now just as surely as they did nothing to stop the Arab invasion in 1948 (which Israel won to everyone's shock and surprise).

First I Think you misunderstand me here David, I'm not caling for Israel to cease to exist, I am calling for the same thing you are, a return to the UN decided borders of 1967. Second, don't give me that 'more of a right to exist' speech, I've heard it, and it's not going to win me over until Israel recognizes the right to exist of the 1.5 million Palestinians who are being slowly eradicated by being denied food, fuel, and medical supplies. How's that for being a peaceful neighbor? Oh your counter argument will be the Palestinains are bringing it on themselves? then why are they being killed 13 to 1 over Israelis? I'm sure you also conveniently forget that Hamas was elected by the ballot, in an election more fair than we have seen in our United States in over 8 years. Comparing apples to oranges (Darfur to the Middle East) aside, obviously you are missing out entirely on the root of the issue. Truce Is on the Table! brought again to international light thanks to the efforts of Jimmy Carter. Hamas will stand down and work hand in hand governmentally with Israel if they will return to the borders agreed upon by the UN in 1967. Sure there are problems with the Arab states and personal freedoms, but if you think the USA is much better at the moment, then it is you who needs to wake up.

Olmert has an average popularity rating of 3%. Assad is a dictaitor who is in Irans back pocket & one of the biggest supporter of terror. The Golan is valuable to Israel for many reasons including security & economicly the taxpayer will be paying for Olmerts moment of Glory for the next decade. Olmert makes Arafat look like an honest friend to Israel. The man is corupt, he is a threat to the country which is he selling offf piece by peiece for his own political survival & glory. All that matters to him is Ehud Olmert and his place in the history books, nobel prizes, having the world tell him what a great visionry he was and the rest of that crap while Israelis ask themselves how did we let this happen. The future of Jerusalem & the Golan must be decided through a Knesset majority & a national referendum, questions drawn up by indipendents so there can be no rigging of questions which can be interprited ad support for the governments plans whichever way it goes. The result of the referendum must be final, we cant have a few changes to wording and calling it something else so that it deosnt require a future referendum. We dont want lawyers through clever wording & loopholes deciding what the result is. Tony Blair promised the British people a referendum on the EU constiution if other countries supported it. In the end it didnt get enough support for the referendum to be held. The thing was later redrafted slightly and called a treaty rather than a constiution so Gordon Brown the new PM said no referendum was needed as it wasnt a constiution. Also the result of any rerendum must not be simply the lifetime of a sitting government it must be accepted by future governments and all this must be made law. We also need an indipendently drafted constiution to keep any future Olmerts in their place & make them understand the country is not theirs to do with as they please just because they happen to be PM

PEACE NOW . GOLAN LATER

Olmert is desperate for a political legacy to satisfy his ego he is hedging his bets. If he cant get PEACE IN OUR TIME with the palestians before he is finnaly kicked out of office then he is looking to make a quick deal with Syria get Assads siganture on a piece of toilet paper either way the international community is going to be praising him and his politicly motivated nobel prize will be garunteed. The man cares about nothing but power & self glory. He thinks Israel belongs to him to sell off parts of whenever it suits him. The Golan does not belong to this criminal who makes Arafat look like an honest friend of Israel. A referendum act is the only responsible action to take and if this regime believes in democracy then they wont vote against the refrendum, after all if your so sure its good for the country and the people will back your plans then why be scared of a refrendum embrace it because it silences the critics if they back you. If democracy does win out and a referendum bill does pass and this isnt all talk from a man simply trying to take advantage of the situation to gain political support then this referendum must be drafted by indipendent experts. No intervention from any Israeli politicians past or present. This must be done to avoid any politicly motivated politicians rigging the questions so however it turns out the government can claim that the people backed his decision in a referendum. DO YOU WANT PEACE WITH SYRIA? Yes then the price is the Golan thanks for your support. DO YOU WANT WAR WITH SYRIA? No then the price is the Golan its the only way to avoid war. We must avoid any rigging of questions which Israeli politicians would allmost certainly try to do depending on who is in power when the referendum is drafted. Its result must be final not something that applies to just the serving government we cant say in referendum that this government cant sell the Golan but next government comes along and said you had your refrendum, you voted no so Olmert didnt get to give it all away but you didnt say we couldnt do anything. If the result is keep the Golan that result must be final for at least 10 years at which time another referendum must be held. We must also make sense that a government cant change wording to create legal loopholes to get away with it in future. The EU voted on having an EU constitution Tony Blair the PM at the time promised that if enough countries supported the constioution then England would have a refrendum let the British people have the final say on if they will accept it or not. In the end there was no need for the referendum as it didnt get enough support outside the UK. The European politicians then reworded the planned constitution a little and called it a treaty so serving PM Gordon Brown has said no refrendum is needed as this is simply a treaty not a vote not a consitiution. We need politicians who dont put political glory above the interests of the country & we need laws to protect us from any attempted political coruption.

Why don't Marina Solodkin and Ze'ev Elkin vote Olmert out of office? "MK Ze'ev Elkin (Kadima) reiterated the sentiment, saying that in the last six months "Olmert has been fooling the Israeli public and the international community, making promises he can't keep… he has no support for this move, neither in the Knesset nor in Kadima."

It means that we have no open government and must rely on arab sources to find out the truth of what our government is doing in our name. We dont know whats going on with the palestians other than the fact that Olmert wants to wrap it all up have a palestian state before Bush leaves office in November. How that affects Israel is something thats non of our business. He is doing deals on Jerusalem behind closed doors we all know it but Olmerts policy is either deny there are any talks. Say we think it would be a good idea to give up certain naighborhoods but any facts again non of our business we want to learn the facts then ask the arabs. The Golan, we dont know what is supposed to be in this for Israel other than the fact we are giving the Golan but after all we only live in Israel so why should we be entitled to know anything. Israel has become like a dictaitorship since Olmert came to power with an attitude of I do anything I like and you will accept it because I am not interested in what you do or do not want.

Does anyone else worry that maybe there's more to the story? There is always the possibiity that some of these seemingly delusional and suicidal leaders are involved in something even the most democratic press can't report.

It can't be but yet it is. Give back the Golan heigths is like commiting sucide. It is strategic property and a General should be consulted before anything like giving up land for Peace? Do you realy think you will have peace Israel?