Opinion
I will never understand
Noah Klieger
Published: 01.05.08, 10:36
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1. It's important for the Arabs and Jew haters
Talula ,   Israel   (05.01.08)
to try and comprehend the depth of this black hole in human history. Because in the horror of the Holocaust lies the roots and depth of our struggle for our own country and our willingness to protect it at all costs.
2. The fact is that it happened!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (05.01.08)
However, the question today is not how or why it happened but will it happen again? The hatred and anti-Semitism that was rampant in Germany in the 1930's wasn't anything new. There were horrible pogroms in Russia under the Czars and later under Stalin and the rulers of the USSR. There were pogroms in England under Queen Anne and let's not forget Spain under Isabella. The Jews was and still is the scapegoat of the world. In Germany all it took was a man like Adolph Hitler to incite a well disciplined but humiliated people to rise up and put the blame for all their misfortunes on the Jews. Today we see the same thing in the Arab world. Palestinians get killed because of their terror against Israelis and Jews and, of course, it 's the Jews' fault and the whole world sympathizes with them. The nations of this planet don't like it when Jews stand up and fight back and so many Jewish personalities, particularly in the United Kingdom, still have the "keep a low profile and don't anger the Goyim" attitude! Will it happen again? Well, if you look at the rise of groups like Nashi, or Putin's Youth as some call it, the new and not so new Neo Nazi parties in Germany and Europe there could very well be another Holocaust. The only thing that will prevent it is Aliya and the sooner our brethren in the Diaspora wake up the better it will be for them. Apathy and complacency cost us 6,000,000 and it will happen if the Jews of the world don't take their heads out of the sand.
3. #1 Talula
Said ,   London, UK   (05.01.08)
If you're willing to go to any lengths to protect your country, why do you find it so strange that Palestinians would go to any lengths to reclaim what they consider their land?
4. Lots of enemies?
Lisa Lulatsch ,   New York   (05.01.08)
How were the jews able to make so many enemies over the centuries?
5. It's Inherent Depravity
EM ,   Ra'anana   (05.01.08)
Humans have an apalling capacity for violence and cruelty towards each other. Even now...we are learning about a father who locked his daughter in a cellar for 24 years..with no compassion...neither towards her nor their children, who he left in darkness and despair. He would horrifically abuse his daughter...and then go upstairs to his other "family" have dinner, watch tv...be normal...like the Nazis you witnessed on your way to hard labor. Jews have been persecuted throughout centuries due to antisemitism..but the horrors of the holocaust go beyond antisemitism -- it is a display of the depravity within the human character. The scale differs with each circumstance, but if we cannot overcome this inherent flaw... holocausts - small and large..will happen over and over and over again.
6. #4 Lisa
Sigfried S. Kuhn ,   Aberdeen   (05.01.08)
The answer is that there are too many people like you---hateful, bigoted, and evil. In a time of ignorance and superstition, Jews who valued cleanliness and hygiene were accused of poisoning the wells to cause the plague. None of the brilliant gentiles noticed that Jews dispensed of their garbage and didn't have the rat problem that allowed plague carrying fleas to flourish. People like Lisa spread psychotic and delusional tales of Jews murdering Christians for the making of matza. Christian churches preaching the evil nature of Jews were another way to convnce ignorant peasants that the Jews should be killed. So you see Lisa, your stupid posting is a reminder of hoe bigots love to blame the victim.
7. to #4
Viktor ,   NY USA   (05.01.08)
I don’t think that Jews had more enemy in one particularly period of time than some other people, difference is that Jews survived and move on, and other people perished on this bloody history road.
8. #Said. The Palestinians are not working on building a state
Lenny ,   Karmiel, Israel   (05.01.08)
9. ANSWER: THE HORRORS OF A SOLDIER UNDER ORDERS..
Yitzchak ,   Yerushalyim   (05.01.08)
ANSWER: THE HORRORS OF A SOLDIER UNDER ORDERS ALSO IT IS DOCUMENTED THAT MEN DO THINGS IN THE GROUP HYSTERIA SUCH AS THIS AND THEN LATER THEMSELVES DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DID IT. THOSE THAT DESIGNED THE FINAL SOLUTION ARE STILL WORKING ON THE NEXT SOLUTION AND THEY HAVE PASSED THE HATRED TO THE CURRENT GENERATION AND TO THE ARABS. BNEI AMALEK YET LIVES TO INCITE OTHERS TO HATRED! AND YES SOME LIVE IN ISRAEL
10. antisemetism
Yehu Ben Zohar ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (05.01.08)
Jews have been the targets of hatred for centuries because they brought the concept of one G-d and a set of laws that humans should follow. Men do not like to be told that something they are doing is wrong. They want to do as they please and not have to answer to a "G-d." So the Jews are scapegoated and killed for reminding men that there is a higher power they must answer to. In Germany, many years before Hitler, Martin Luther was extremely upset with the Jews when they did not convert en-mass to his new church of Lutheranism. He then went on a rant calling for confiscation of Jewish property, money and their murder for rejecting Christ. After many years of hearing this type of rhetoric, the Germans were ready to do the most horrible things in the name of their "god."
11. Look at the Palestinians to understand the German Nazis
Ken Besig ,   Israel   (05.01.08)
Ask yourself how a perfectly normal Palestinian human being, apparently, can strap a pack of explosives on himself and climb into a bus full of civilians and explode himself murdering and injuring dozens of innocent people. Then ask yourself how that Arab suicide bombers family and friends can celebrate his wicked deed, and how the Palestinian President can even award a savage like this a medal of honor and his family lifetime financial compensation. Then ask yourself how our supposedly Jewish Prime Minister can even have discussions with that same PA President a few hours later. About now you might be able to understand, just slightly, how the Nazis got to be the brutal beasts they were! And you might just get an insight by observing our PM Ehud Olmert as to how and why the European Judenrats functioned throughout the Nazi conquest of Eurpope, and even cooperated with them in sending innocent Jews to their deaths in the Nazi extermination camps.
12. #3 Said
Soeren ,   Cologne/Germany   (05.01.08)
I think the problem is that the Palestinians (and Arab states) started the Middle East conflict by definetely not accepting an independant Jewish statehood in the Middle East. At the same time Ben Gurion accepted the "two-state solution" ("UN partition plan"). So that the Palestinians didn't found their state – was solely THEIR OWN DECISION – they decided to play for ALL or NOTHING... and got nothing. Nevertheless they try to tell the world that they were only "fighting because they just wanted a state for their own". Obviously this is not true. Just look at Southern Lebanon: Hisbollah said they were "fighting ONLY because of the occupation of Lebanese land – and only until Israel leaves". Israel DID LEAVE in 2000 – and what happened? Did Hisbollah put its weapons away and started breeding tomatoes...?! It's exactly the same in the Gaza Strip, the Israelis left in 2005. In the Gaza Strip they even destroyed expensive greenhouses which were left behind by the settlers – and said this way that they are definetely not interested in breeding tomatoes or building up their economy. So what do we learn? Obviously there is a widespread thinking among Arabs to fight the Israelis/the Jews "until Israel will be destroyed" (becaused the prophet wants it this way: "dar-al islam") – and at the same time telling some "stories" to the Western world ("We want peace!" – "We are fighting only because there is an occupation!"). But sooner or later we Europeans get the facts... – otherwise we wouldn't have successful societies...
13. The Catholic church was a big factor
Zooog   (05.01.08)
in the persecution of the Jews. I know that the church is now trying to repent and that's fine. For centuries the church preached contempt for the Jews. It sunk in. The present Pope came to New York and preached to us that we should be more accepting of illegal immigrants. Yet Pope Pius who was Pope during WW2 never mentioned the Jews in any public statement during the war. Some "representative of God on earth".
14. catholic church
jan sterling ,   apple valley, usa   (05.01.08)
yes i remember it was only in the 1990 i think that pope john finally said the jews did not kill Jesus - so all these centuries the catholic church has blamed the jews for the death of christ when it was really the roman government that killed him
15. the germans
janice sterling ,   apple valley, usa   (05.01.08)
i believe that simply hitler brainwashed the german people against the jewish people - he told them the jews were responsible for the depression - look what happened in texas - with that cult of the mormon church - they used young girls for sex - the mothers were brainwashed - if you teach children from the time they are little that some people are no good, etc. they grow up believeing it
16. #12 - Your post was excellent.....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (05.01.08)
Palestinians have had countless oppertunities to have a state in Gaza and Judea/Smaria. The don't want that. They want us to go away and them to have the whole country. Of course this will NEVER happen - but they can't give up the big dreams - the lies they are being fed by their murderous leaders and their allies - Iran and Syria. Compromise is something they never understood.
17. it was occured
sara ,   jerusalem   (05.02.08)
and if the history returned back it would occured again .. simply becouse germans wanted to do the history by force .. it is like israil now .they want to do history by force .. i think they did not understand the history of germans not the history of their holocaost
18. I do understand- I was born there
Thomas ,   USA   (05.01.08)
It's amazing the tendency with which Jewish people try to trivialize and belittle the absolute horror what the Bolshevik Jews inflicted on Russia firsts, then they moved to Germany (Rosa Luxemburg) and finally implemented the Red terror in Hungary in 1919. All these commie murderers were Jews. People of the time know the Communist horror and the Jewish association with it ...the sad corollary now well known. I am Eastern European Jew and I know what Commie Jews are capable of. You will see in Israel soon and it will be the end of it.
19. No. 13
Jane ,   U.K.   (05.02.08)
Thanks for making the distinction between Catholics and Christians. Not many people do. I really appreciate it.
20. Never underestimate humanitiy's capacity for inhumanity.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (05.02.08)
21. To Noah Klieger
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (05.02.08)
I think today's articles on anti-Semitism on this site and Sara Beck's excellent report on Israel TV 2 News last night on Neo Nazism in Germany TODAY indeed prove the likelihood of another Shoah is possible if not probable. The attitude of the British Jews and their hatred for Israel is so reminiscent of the Jews in Nazi Germany who regarded themselves as true Germans. The only difference is that there is now a State of Israel which, when the new gas chambers are opened and the ovens are fired up in Europe and Great Britain, will do its best to bring these stupid Jewish Brits and the Jews of Europe to the only place on this planet where a Jew can be safe and hold his head up high! Mr Klieger, the only thing that you have to understand is that history does repeat itself and that there is much evil in mankind even is this so-called enlightened world.
22. The Bible says the devil is a murderer; so when murder
Rivkah   (05.02.08)
is in the hearts of people, look for the devil's influence. What opened up the German people to demonic possession that the murder of Jews, Christians, trade unionists and others was not a matter of conscience? The Versailles Treaty of World War I was so vicious and so destructive toward the German economy and people, hate and demonic possession was the consequence. Their consciences were seared with hate. They just wanted to kill and kill and kill.
23. #4
(05.02.08)
first, they were different than anyone else religiously, morally aND ETHNICALLY, making them a scapegoat as you well know. second, they were succesful in business, the only trade we were allowed to involve ourselves in since no country let us un mass be doctors, lawyers and professionals. so, we learned to peddle and do business to survive and got very good at it. third, look at the manifesto of the catholic church who has accused jews of murdering christ and not following his teaching. same as muhammad claims that we killed the prophets. martin luther is a case in point and if you are familiar with his vile messages against the jews, you'll know how the catholic church has created the most antisemitism in the world. fourth, simple envy and jealousy of a small minority (the jews), who despite hatered, managed to survive, never give up its belief and never surrender to the persecution and opression they experienced at the hands of those who begrudged us our success. all the four points put together can give you a very concise picture as to the reason why WE AS JEWS NEVER CREATED OUR OWN ENEMIES. THEY WERE CREATED SOLELY BECAUSE, DESPITE WHAT THEY WISHED FOR US (OUR END), WE SURVIVED AND BECAME A THORN FOREVER IN THEIR SIDES.
24. #21
Soeren ,   Cologne/Germany   (05.02.08)
There will be no Shoah or gas chambers again – at least not in Europe. I remember the German-Jewish journalist Henryk M. Broder saying in an interview some months ago, that he would be "not very afraid" when seeing this "Kostüm-Nazis" (costume-nazis) parading ridiculously with their flags through the streets. He considered a mid-left centered "Pro-Palestine antizionism" as more dangerous, because it seems to be a "cleaner" antisemitism with more reach into the midst of the society – hidden behind the alledgedly "good cause". I would agree and I'm absolutely sure that Neo-Nazis never again will have a chance in Germany: They are not really much people, their ideology is deeply discredited and they will not control any government – neither municipal nor province, let alone the Federal government. Yet, in some cities they will make it into the city council. Nevertheless I'm well aware that they are a real threat – specially to coloured people in some smaller cities in Eastern Germany. And it would be good when this "pest" could be "verboten"...
25. Do we worship the Holocaust?
Noah ,   New York, NY   (05.02.08)
Jews treat the concept of the Holocaust more reverently than anything. I learned more in Hebrew School about the 6 million than I did about the 600+ mitzvot. When we look at ourselves, it's pretty clear that reverence for the Holocaust takes precedence over doing mitzvot, and over how we treat our fellows. Have we turned this into our religion? What kind of basis for identity is this?
26. # 12 Brilliant. Simply brilliant.
silent majority ,   Israel   (05.02.08)
27. Understanding Evil
Christy ,   Boston, US   (05.03.08)
I believe there are some things, like evil, we can't understand.
28. Easy to Understand
David ,   New York, USA   (05.03.08)
how the germans did what they did. After a steady 2000 year diet of hatred, antisemitism, and pogroms against Jews, wishing to kill Jews was instilled in the psyche of most Europeans. THe only thing that was needed was an organized effort provided for by the Nazi party.
29. 26 Christy: The Bible says, "My people perish from lack of
Rivkah   (05.03.08)
knowledge." Evil is the opposite of wisdom. Wisdom is obeying God's commandments and understanding is departing from evil, Solomon said. To depart from evil, one must understand what evil is. The German people lost their understanding or will to depart from evil. They showed no mercy because they were shown no mercy after World War I. There were other reasons which included their being deceived by a maniacal liar, Hitler. they also wanted to survive. Even Jews who survived the death camps said the best people, the kindest, died. Only those who were willing to lie, cheat and steal even a piece of bread, survived. In the camps, survival was supreme, a perverted wisdom. Outside the camps, survival was another perverted supreme goal, at any cost. Understanding was lost inside the camps and outside since obeying the commandments meant certain death. Even King David lied and pretended to be insane when his life was at risk in the court of the Philistines.
30. To Noah; many questions, much wondering but no answers
Jack Klaber ,   R. Hasharon, Israel   (05.04.08)
Noah, you look at the issue from the wrong end. Do not start at Auschwitz and ask how could this happen. That way you'll never understand. Start somewhere back somewhere in the renaissance when Jews came out of the isolation and became more involved in day-to-day life. Especially in Germany Jews could become wealthy, because they most of all, began to speak German and not Yiddish. Still there were many restrictions, discrimination and Jews became influential because they could help (financially) poor aristocrats and Princes and Kings (Hofjuden). When Germany lost the first WW and was pushed into poverty, demise and political unrest, the fascists and right wingers could profit. The national socialist workers party of Germany was born (NSDAP). Hitler managed to get into the mainstream of this party at a later point in time because he was very charismatic and also he was the one who dared to push further for results and also came up with (with the help of others ) simple solutions to simple questions: Who is responsible for losing WWI ? - answer: "The Jews" Who is responsible for the poverty? - answer: "The Jews (look at Rathenau, the father, the wealthy ship line owner, AEG founder and CEO" Who is a sub race? "The Jews" (At the beginning of the 20th. century Anthropology was a very popular hobby). Etc. But what was maybe the most important magic he and his cronies came up with was the absolutely genius sentence: "Die Juden sind unser Unglueck" (The Jews are our misfortune". Meaning all misery, poverty and injustice was caused by the Jews and as soon as they were gone, Germany would rise to unlimited power, glory and happiness. (Remember the Phoenix in many Nazi propaganda films?) Mind you, Hitler and his cronies did not have any copyright on that sentence. They only used it to the maximum effectiveness. Now when you start brainwashing this into small children and youth from 1933, then in 1939 you'll have millions of able youngsters and soldiers that are willing to die for this idea. Even denouncing their own parents of not being 100% in line of Nazi party ideology. If you would have seen the very good BBC documentary about Auschwitz on Holocaust night (from 23 till 3 in the morning on Channel 8) then you would have learned that Himmler was very well aware about the psychological toll the "work" in the death camps took from the elite SS troops. He also knew how to solve those problems. So answers to your questions and wonderings can be found if you care to look. Do not make the German people the only responsible people or nation to this until then, unknown to mankind behaviour of one nation towards a peaceful, symbiotic and innocent minority. At that time, almost no direct information was available and mankind was still hoping WWI was the last "great war" for a long time to come. And foremost, no one could comprehend outside the camps what really was going on, even after hearing rumours or even eyewitness reports. The mind could just not grasp such atrocities. But we haven't yet mastered the skill of being humans in a moral way. Even today, after mankind has learned what is possible. Moreover, TV and internet bring you every piece of information into your house in real time and uncensored, smaller holocausts have happened and ARE STILL HAPPENING AT THIS MOMENT! Biafra, Ruanda & Burundi, Angola, Uganda, Cambodia, Vietnam etc. etc. etc. and today, Darfur. What do you think a journalist will wonder in 100 years time when he wanders over the many "killing fields" of the second half of the 20th. century and those of the 21st. century? I hope for mankind that the killing fields of Auschwitz, Treblinka, Maidanek and Bergen Belsen will remain the far worst of them all.....
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