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Thousands of conversions questioned
Published: 02.05.08, 10:36
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1. This is a shameful court!
Ami Israel ,   Jerusalem   (05.02.08)
Have they forgotten how Rav Goren paskened on this matter? Have they no compassion? The Jewishness of the members of this court NEEDS to be examined!
2. The whole story
Shalom   (05.02.08)
Anyone reading this article may forget where YNet's loyalties lie - and it certainly isn't with the Rabbinical courts. I suggest that we hear the background for this story from the Rabbinical courts themselves before making any allegations.
3. Druckman's operations
Daniel Breslauer ,   Jerusalem   (05.02.08)
Druckman ignored halacha by accepting unsincere people as 'converts,' and he could have known this. Halacha requires anyone who wants to become Jewish to observe Jewish law. That doesn't seem to me to be anything other than logical. Let's say I want to become a US citizen. Can I become a citizen of the US without promising or intending to keep the laws of the US? If, some time after having received US citizenship, I proudly declare that I do not keep the laws of the US and never intended to keep them, then can I complain when the US retroactively cancels my recently acquired citizenship? Or, someone who wants to serve in law enforcement or in a (higher) military position, must sign a declaration affirming allegiance to the laws of the respective nation in whose service he is going to serve. Just like the citizenship of any country has rules, so the 'citizenship' of the Jewish people has rules. You can get it by birth - the only exception to this being if you convert 'out' to another religion - or you can get it by converting to Judaism. The latter includes certain obligations: such a person must, obligatorily, voluntarily accept all of the Torah's commandments according to the interpretations of the rabbis which constitute Jewish law, known in Hebrew Halacha. One who does not conform to these laws cannot be considered Jewish, even retroactively. There have definitely been sincere people who fell into Druckman's trap, and they should be offered a quick way out, with a quick and short trip to the rabbinical court and mikveh, just to make sure everything is ok.
4. Do rabbis have any humanity?
Sidney ,   USA   (05.02.08)
Let us be honest they are like the mullahs of Iran. Day after day we read on this website about some rabbi restricting human freedom. No wonder that the majority of Jews all over the world are non-observant.
SERGIO ,   ISRAEL   (05.02.08)
THAT NO ONE CAN BE ACCEPTED FOR CONVERSION UNLESS HE/SHE COMMITS TO FULL OBSERVANCE. Why isn't anyone asking to admit to the Lakers team someone who does not observe the rules of basketball; to the Yankees someone who just plays "some" baseball; and to Manchester United someone who refuses to play footbal but uses his hands? BECOMING part of the People of Israel cannot be something less meaningful than playing some sport. Why the rules of Judaism should be less important than any sport rules? Being BORN Jewish one can choose not to observe: it's his/her business with his/her Maker. But TO BECOME Jewish, observance is part of the conditions. Only the RAbbis can decide, just like ONLY DOCTORS CAN DECIDE WHO PASSES OR NOT THE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE.
6. Another "Victory"
Jerry ,   Eilat, Israel   (05.02.08)
Another Pyrrhic victory for the ultra-orthodox who apparently would prefer to see our nation wither away to two enclaves--Bnei Brak and Jerusalem than see six million or more Jews with a common cause. And when the withering starts who will pay the taxes and man the army posts to protect them? Not the people they are chasing out of ISrael.
Chaim   (05.02.08)
8. Pot of Gold
Arielush ,   Ramat Ha Golan   (05.02.08)
Disgusting. Would I be presumptive if I suppose there is a lot of money in it for someone.
9. Now I know
Arn ,   Yehud, Israel   (05.02.08)
10. about time
avi ,   tzfat   (05.02.08)
Its about time that the scam of conversions come to a halt. Being a jew is vastly different than being a Israeli. A jew must adhere to halacha.
11. Not all rabbinccal courts are righteous
eddie ,   london UK   (05.02.08)
Thus said the prophet Jeremiah, castigating the injustice in the courts of his day, and the Yeshiva world of his time - since they did not know G-d. And today's "courts" are merely puppets installed by the Haredi extremist leaders, who wish to take over the entire rabbinical system. The Chief rabbi metzger is himself a fake, with a dirty past, and being propped up by Rabbi Elyashiv.
12. rabbinical court
felix ,   tel aviv israel   (05.02.08)
the conversion process in this country in a joke. where does it say in the ten commadments how the conversion process is to be implemented? where is the authority of this "court" derived from, really? it is a body that made up rules that perperuate its authority, to the exlusion of any other interpretation. where does it say that reform conversions are not recognized other than the opinion of the orthodox, who are themselves playing G-d? where does it say a child of a Jewish male is not jewsh if the mother is not jewish? it is a bunch of nonsense that pushes people away, unless they commit to be orthodox. these guys want the entire medina to look like bnei brak. Nuts.
13. Rabbis vs ayatollahs
David ,   Haifa   (05.02.08)
Whereas men like rabbi Sherlo, rabbi Druckman and the late rabbi Goren represent traditional Jewish values such as compassion and love for Israel, more and more rabbis - both in the religious Zionist and in the haredi camps - have become hardly distinguishable to the ayatollahs in Iran, with their hatred of women and of those who do not think or behave exactly like them.
14. Thousands of conversions questioned
Golan ,   Sweden   (05.02.08)
Thousands of conversions questioned It High Rabbinical Court time that the Rabbinical Courts as now composed are desolved they are a decrace to Judism and Jewish law. Just the Idea that a convert must look oner one sholder and be threated with RETROACTIVE punishment is facist and unjewish. It's time to excomunicae these so called rabbis.
15. SUPREMACIST Rabbinical Court?
Ruth ,   Israel (ex-Moav)   (05.02.08)
This Shabbat we read Kedoshim, where we are commanded to "Treat the stranger (Ger) as the homeborn (Jew)" and why? "Because you were strangers (Gerim) in Egypt". At the Seder we read that we should all consider ourselves as having been there in Egypt (where we were gerim). If so, should this Rabbinic court start to pronounce anyone whose observance is not 'good enough for them' as being a gentile? In Kedoshim we are told to be be Holy (ethical, righteous and apart from sin) not supremacist!
16. enough is enough!!!
gawain ,   israel   (05.02.08)
as orthodox rabbis become more and more halucinatory and/or tribalistic in their rulings and adjudications, the time has come to start thinking seriously about annuling the rabbinical courts, or at least limiting their sphere of influence only to those that choose in advance to abide by their curious and prejudicial pronouncements. although i doubt it, perhaps there is a politician or public figure with the cojones to lead a movement whose message is that while israel is a jewish state, this does not mean that judaism must be defined exclusively along orthodox terms. enough is enough!!!
17. Rabinical Court
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot, Israel   (05.02.08)
It looks the Rabbinical Court has left the tracks. Did they think of the suffering they have caused to all these families? Not all people born to Judaism celebrate all the mitzvoth or are religious. Our poskim have gone over to Bet Shami and have abandoned Bet Hillel. In the past poskim and judges were close to the community and interpreted halacha to best suit both the religious needs and the personnel needs. Now the poskim and judges have their minds in the clouds and have no idea what is going on down here on earth. Perhaps it’s time to enact a constitution and move many personnel laws like marriage, divorce, and conversion to a saner environment.
18. Annulled Conversions
Andy S ,   Jerusalem   (05.02.08)
Sad. So the Orthodox rabbinate rejects Reform conversions, Masorti/Conservative conversions, and now even their own conversions. They have rejected many RCA (modern Orthodox) conversions from the States. They have refused to accept Orthodox conversions performed in Israeli army. They continue to make themselves a joke in the eyes of the general public. But a joke that the law endows with power.
19. Can someone explain why the conversions from these 2 Rabbis
Miriam ,   Israel   (05.02.08)
are disqualified? Are they reform or conservative?
20. This you do to people who cared enough to convert?
Sheila ,   Jerusalem Israel   (05.02.08)
21. Maybe she dint vote for Shas
Dima   (05.02.08)
Maybe they rejected her conversion because she wasn't going to vote for Shas or for any other religious party? But this is what i talked about in other talk-backs... The Israeli conversion system is horrible and it needs a complete overhaul. These converts want to be Jewish, but they don't want to be Haredim. But the funny thing is that again these rabbis will blame everything on the "goys" when the time comes, "goys" are not the problem because many of them want to be Jewish and many consider themselves Jewish, the problem lies in the corrupt Rabbinate that put sticks in their wheels. Ministry of Interior should start its own conversion program apart from Rabbinate and you will see how many "goys" will convert.
22. I'll never convert, AGAIN!
Nick Sporek ,   Jerusalem   (05.02.08)
This is my number one reason why I'll never convert, AGAIN! I converted in Canada. I made aliyah by myself and am becoming more and more religious all the time. My conversion isn't accepted by them. They said because "there is only one type of orthodox and all the rest do what ever they want". I said what about ashkinazi & Sfaredi, Chabad/ Labuvitch/ Breslov, Bnei Akiva, 2 Jew's 3 opinions...He just shrugged it off without an answer. I said bye- bye. These "rabbis" make a joke of their own religion and don't seem to get the point. I did my conversion for G-D and not for anyone else. I don't have to do it again and I won't. Where are the good rabbis that don't agree with these fools? Why don't they get some balls and stand up to them? This type of behaviour breeds anti-Semites and self hating Jews, not to mention turn Jews off of Judaism. My I.D. says that I'm Jewish with a Jewish B-day on it. If the state won't let me be married (G-D willing when the time comes) I'll sew them. I hope other people will too. Don't play their game, just end it. Happy 60th Israel. Nitzachon Ben Avraham
23. they converted, it worked and they were doing good,
what if Chief Rabbi disqualified Moses, would you say he did not disqualify Abraham?
24. It's not surprising
jonolan ,   NYC   (05.02.08)
It's not surprising they're overturning Drukman's conversions. He's done a lot with the Ethiopian immigrants and sure that doesn't sit well with a lot of the court.
25. Converts
mark ,   canada   (05.02.08)
What a load of rubbish. They should have worked for the Gestapo or KGB. With such long noses, they the loafers, who are able to ferret out the darkest secret. who say the people are not converts, are very close to the mentality of Himmler and Beria. Does Israel really need these people to tell them what they are or are not. You know, I wouldn't want to convert, even if I was an Iranian communist! And, picture this, a court now does the dirty work for them. They must operate courts like Roland Feisler or Andy ("boy") Vishinski. I am amazed that the children of these converts are now also out in the "cold". Lord, God of Israel and the world, now what?
26. Rabbis are just Men...
Matan ,   Tel Aviv   (05.02.08)
And it is not any Man or Womans job to stand between a Jew and HaShem...there is only one authority with the power to judge, and He is not corrupt like these Rabbis who preach holiness and practice hatred. These Rabbis who gave themselves rights never granted to them...they will answer for their bigotry, their hate, when their time comes.
27. Hareidim were right
Avraham ,   NYC   (05.02.08)
Hareidim - much reviled here by many contributors - have proved to be right that a lot of conversions performed in Israel go against the Torah.
28. An Injustice
Jakov   (05.02.08)
What if by sheer accident someone got converted by the rabbis questioned and did everything they could to observe Jewish law? It's really not right for them to be punished by somethiing that should have stayed between the 2 individuals in the one particular case mentioned above. Also, no born Jew has someone looking over their shoulders to see how observant s/he is. (Maybe except in Mea Shearim). Only HaShem has any right to finally judge what intentions one had in converting and whether that person's observance was enough.
29. to Daniel #3
Anniulkah ,   Kefar Yona, Israel   (05.02.08)
First of all let me just say that I am an American and as one, I'm very proud of the American culture and loyal to our laws and goverment....However, I still cannot believe that you can actually compare being a citizen of a country to being part of the Jewish people and partaking in the bond and covenant between the Jewish people and the Lord. one has nothing to do with the other... Jews behaved all over europe and other nations all over the world as loyal citizens of the nation in which they lived and yet many times if not most they were rejected as citizens even if they behaved like better citizens and paid respects and even defended their nation better than others... now this nation does basically the same that has been done to Jews throughout the years by not accepting those who care enough to want to be part of the Jewish people. and tell me, how many of those who were fully born into Judaism keep allllllllllll the commandments of the Torah ???? how many observe every detail of the Jewish Law??? yet you put the full burden of keeping all the Law on those who wish to convert but let those who are born Jews, off the hook. who died and made you God?!?!?! this is what happens when human beings try to take the Lord's place and be judges according to their own will. was Abraham not a convert himself? and did the Lord not tell him to go and show the world that He alone is God , yet you reject those who want to come forward and become part of His people and follow the One true God... and does the Torah not say to welcome the convert with open arms because after all Abraham was a convert? and what about Ruth? ... Its funny how when speaking of the Holocaust everyone agrees that SIX MILLION JEWS were killed by the Nazis yet a GREAT percentage of those "6 million" would not be considered to be Jews by people like yourself or the rabbanut since many of those Jews had assimilated, inter-married, were born to non Jewish mothers and even had converted to Christianity ... yet isn't it tragic that even Hitler and his people considered them to be Jewish
30. I have decided
Avi ,   Tel-Aviv   (05.02.08)
From this day I will NEVER AGAIN set my foot into an Orthodox shul for any reason. Orthodox Judaism is the sickest, most distorted and politiziced form of the religions of the mankind!
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