Given that there are so many things wrong with this attitude I will just list a few that come to mind: 1. Girls are every bit able to do the job as most boys (and better than some of them) - so discrimination is a mistake. 2. With Yeshiva boys avoiding their responsibility, Israel needs all of the girls too - otherwise the Rabbi would be making silly comments in a Muslim ruled country. 3. If The religious boys can not stand to see a fully covered girl in pants without being distracted or thinking "unclean thoughts" this is a problem of their education, not of the girls cloths. 4. Rabbis should stick to what they know - praying, and not get involved in what is needed to protect their ability to pray freely.

Now can someone tell me that modesty is not a problem. The opposite is true and is sanctioned by the army.

IT IS INTERNAL REGULATION IN TSAHAL. PRACTICALLY NO QUESTIONS ASKED. THEY ALWAYS RESISTED PUBLISHING THE FULL NUMBERS: FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

The boys don't serve and the girls don't serve But the state pays them to study And that money comes out of the budget for the military And then they decide who can be Jew Is there something wrong with this picture?

Consigning the IDF to be an unholy army would be fatal. It is the IDF that must become holy -- capable of operating in a holy manner WITH the women doing their part in it -- NOT abandoning the army of ha-Sheim Tz'vaot (of Armies, inaccurately diluted to "of hosts") and David ha-Melekh to be regarded as an army of "them" protecting "us." Proper and practical safeguards must be in place to protect women and the reputation of everyone involved -- but that must be achieved, not ignored. And it is achievable. Liberals and religious alike -- even the goyim -- advocate that each person merits respect. Periodic charges of sexual impropriety demonstrate that these safeguards are as lacking and in need of achieving in the yeshivah world as among politicians and elsewhere in our community. Doctors know how to include a female assistant in the room when examining a female to preclude charges of impropriety. Rabbis must be no less intelligent and attentive to propriety. You're not bishops; don't act like them. Prohibitions against the aveirah of gossip must be enforced no less than practical safeguards against appearances of immorality. Instead, we see unbounded gossip and slander in the opposite names of both liberality and, le-havdil, ha-Sheim -- the latter constituting khilul ha-Sheim. These things apply no less in the army than any other facet of Israeli life. Gossip is an aveirah equated to murder*3, not an excuse to accept an unholy army, or exempt the army from Torah, within the community of Israel. Discouraging women from the IDF implies either that your men are incapable of holiness in the real world and you need to address that issue or that women inherently bring unholiness. To the contrary, unholiness is the product of an unholy heart, just as Ribi Yehoshua taught. Women don't "bring" it. You're not muslims; don't act like them. Conversely, holiness emanates from a holy heart. A holy woman -- Eishet Khayil -- stands up for Torah wherever she is, not yielding to unholiness. My daughter is such an Eishet Khayil -- serving in the IDF. Torah prohibits gossip. Men and women must BOTH be respected as homo sapiens with equal potential for holiness. Holiness can only be demonstrated in the real world, not relegated and applied only to times and places that allow isolation of the sexes. The IDF is the community of Israel no less than the yeshivah or the mall (or the political arena). Torah is for the real world, NOT for a frummer-than-thou Diaspora-ghetto attitude of "we" are holy in here and "they" are goyim out there. In Europe or America, outside the community is goyim. It wasn't even justified there. Jews were supposed to be a Light of Torah illuminating the world. In Israel, by contrast, outside your community are Jews. Thus, a Diaspora-Ghetto mentality here is a far greater denial, escapism, violation of Torah and is entirely unjustified and unacceptable. Work to encourage holiness throughout the entire community of Israel, not merely within some ghetto. Only then can Israel live up to its purpose as a Light of Torah illuminating the world according to Shemot 19.6. Paqid Yirmeyahu

it's a dishonourable discharge.

As an observant women who served in the army, I find both Aviner's comments and the comments about abortions quite offensive. I am proud to have served in the army and did not have an abortion. I hope my daughter will also serve her country with pride and to the best of her ability. And how can anyone take seriously this man who said women must not wear pants even when alone and in the dark while relieving herself? Sounds very Taliban to me. Must she also cover up while in the shower?

to #1 First you are right that Yeshiva boys have an obligation occording to the Torah to serve in the army! That is why I served in the army, in Nachal Charedi as a combat position even though I am not yet an Israeli citezen. Second of all the Jewish nation like every other nation has laws, our laws our G-d given and if its forbidden for women to serve in the army then all your arguments dont mean anything. I as a Jewish male do have an obligation so I served even though I do not yet carry an Israeli passport. To #2 Yes its true! Actually they get 3. As I mentioned I was in Nachal Charedi so we did not have women. But I can tell you that in the greater army women are called "mattresses".

I don't know how many of you served, or when. But these days, many (if not most) of the Sayeret units consist of a large portion of Zionist-religious Jews. There are differences between anti-zionist haredim and the Zionist-religious bloc. Just because they are both religious doesn't mean they both stand for the same thing.

1) If I am not mistaking, time of war in Israel is considered PIKHUAH NEFESH. Therefor, enlisting women is permited. 2) In "Kings"... or was it in one of the prophets?... you have account of a woman killing some guy from a besieged tower with a piece of mill's stone, what shows that women were engaged in war activities. O.K, that is NOT enlisting, but you have actually a precedance. My oppinion is that you should wait for some better times to ban the enlisting for women. When you have Hezzbollah in the north, and Hamas on the west, and "allies" of PLO on the east, and Saudi Arabia with Egypt, the traditional Israel-loving countries in south... I think that enlisting or not enlisting of women is the least of your problems.

There is something ominous happening with all the medieval pronouncements over the past few years by certain religious leaders----I have no doubt that even the chance they would even make women wear burkas t---the Ayatollahs have taken over!

www.hartman.org.il

even mention that Zionist-religious (alias National Religious) Jews serve in large numbers? Answer: because so many of the National Religious no longer CHOSE `to serve.

Women should be allowed to fight for their country along side any good man.

When Franco approached Madrid, he had four columns of troops and a "fifth column" of sympathizers within the city. Every day on this website we read of some rabbi making a proposal harmful to Israel and the Jewish people. Is it any wonder that the majority of Jews ignore rabbis? If these rabbis think that the ghetto in Europe was the paradigm for Jewish life, let them go back to Poland and the Ukraine and not be a burden on real Israelites.

I say bring treason charges against this so-called Rabbi for incitement to harm his country. Tell him to go join the Jews in Iran who seem to share his views.

if i read the bible correctly then there are places , verses in the bible that seem to say this -------- shalom =========augustine e johnson-usa

My friend-we ARE the real Israelis. Is it any wonder that without religious jews in America, American jewry would be extinct by now? At least the majority of jews RESPECT the rabbis-definitely amoung the sephardi population! You carry on ranting and raving, and the rest of us will continue trying to ensure the continuation of the jewish nation. best love

In Jewish law you cannot pick and choose whatever halacha you want.

The army doesn't pay for abortions. and to all of you who are busy with this point shame on you for speaking ill of both the daughters of Israel and the sons of Israel. Because a girl don't get pregnant all by herself even if she goes in for IVF!

The majority of religious girls don't go into the army, anyway. They do National Service. This won't affect the other young women. Except to give them an 'excuse' not to join which I hope they don't do! Women are badly needed in support positions such as watching the radar screens, etc.

to serve in a secular army - even if it's Jewish. If anything, it's just the opposite. That's why you cannot get Yeshiva boys to serve. And there's NO mitzvah for women to go in the army EVER. Show me where it says so in the Torah. RABBI AVINER IS 100% RIGHT! You people make up laws and claim it's in the Torah. It's about time, you STOP YOUR IGNORANCE and start learning Torah and see what it actually says.

For shame. Israeli girl soldiers mattresses, male soldiers meat. Isn't this lashon ha rah. How dare you spew out libel and gossip. Check your facts first. At least these children serve their country.

Keep the women safe at home to support the men. Keep out the religious boy because they have better things to do. Keep out the Russians because most of them are not true Jews. Let's put our trust in the almighty like they did during WWII. Lets just hope he does a better job this time.

the idf defends israel--last time i checked this included women the lives saved are both men and women...this is new issue for halacha because there was no idf for at least 1800 years. what concerns me and perhaps the rabbi is a culture where women are killers of life instead of givers of life.But women have the right to defend themselves individually so why not in concert with men or eachother?

There is a reason a woman cannot enlist and that is because she should not be dominated by a man to avoid abuse, or exploitation. At least with this HALACHIK reason people would respect this opinion.