Opinion
Say yes to a lull
Hanoch Daum
Published: 19.05.08, 09:55
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18 Talkbacks for this article
1. If there is no answer, then Israel is lost
daniel   (05.19.08)
The writer is calling for Israel to capitulate and give up. If Israel cannot defend itself even from Hamas missiles, then its game over. Byebye, hope you have a nice funeral etc
2. Hanoch Daum
YITZAK BEN SHLOMO ,   Singapore   (05.19.08)
IT IS WAR ! JUST END there ARM TWISTING ACTION and WIPE OUT GAZA. ENOUGH OF THIS SHALIT SHOW,ENOUGH OF THIS ROCKETS. NO NEED FOR FOREIGN POWER TO TELL ISRAEL WHAT TO DO AND NOT TO DO ! ISRAELI's ARE CAPABLE PEOPLE !
3. Please tell this to the people of Sderot
(05.19.08)
I'm sure as hell they'd run out of town. Your arguement literally spews of the idea that all hope is lost, that our army is a joke, and our political figure heads cannot be depended on for anything. While the third point is something I will not argue with. The fact is that we are not a nation of "I can't", this is the nation where "After me!" was invented. This loss in mindset is literally destroying the country. The fact is that people of the South deserve the states protection. They pay there taxes, they work for there families, and they send there sons to the army. Which is not only meant to secure Tel Aviv so that the party will never stop! The fact is that your arguement is based on three fallacies: 1) A lull will actually stop rocket fire: So what happens if we do agree with Hamas to stop the rocket fire? What happens if Islamic Jihad, PFLP, or any of the other alphabet soup of terrorists groups launches rockets? Oh wait.. Hamas 'cannot' control them, and they are just acting out in the 'resistance'. 2) That the lull will actually lead to something. Lets assume for the sake of arguement the people of the south do get there quiet. What happens during this time when the IDF's hands are tied? Hamas smuggles in tonnes more weapons. And I have to ask, during this time where Hamas is free to train and prepare for an all out war. What happens then when Hamas feels that is can truely repel an IDF invasion? What happens if Hamas decides to break through the border fence and take over a kibbutz next to Gaza, gaining now HUNDEREDS of CIVILIAN prisoners? This isn't me dreaming of a nightmare scenario, Hamas speakers say that the lull is just part of there method of fighting Israel. How is doing what they want, helping us? 3) How do you know Shalit is even alive? I don't think theres much else I can write here? So in the end lets take an introspective look at things. THE ENTIRE REASON WE ARE IN THIS SITUATION IS BECAUSE WE LISTENED TO FOOLS LIKE YOU! Had gone in and annihilated Hamas after the first kassam that landed after disengagement, there would have been clear boundaries and clear reproccusions. But we appeased and lived with it so Tel Avivians like you can party the night away without worrying about a war or how this will affect your travel to Paris. Now is the time to stop this crap. We are a nation at war, let's act like it and give them some of there own medicine. Lets drive them into the sea and lets see how they like it!
4. That is exactly the kind of thinking
Matityahu ,   Slovenia   (05.19.08)
that put Israel into this mess.
5. S.O.S HELP!
FO ,   Belgium   (05.19.08)
If such an incredible defaitism would have prevailed during World War II, the allied forces would have lost the war against Nazi Germany and Japan! So dear readers, think about the consequences of such a defeat, and what could happen in the future if Mr. Hanoch Daum's mentality prevails.
6. Complete & utter nonsense.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (05.19.08)
This gov't. is interested in a lull or truce or whatever you want to call it for purely self-interested political reasons, prime among them Olmert's collection of investigations for corruption, pressure from the Americans who fear a break-down in the phoney peace process, & to relieve pressure on itself for inaction in response to rocket attacks, particularly the last hit on a mall in Ashkelon. Shalit, at least for the gov't., is a side issue of importance only for PR purposes to boost it's abysmal popularity while at the same time, making the unpalatable truce easier to swallow. The military is against the truce, for obvious reasons. It should also be obvious that any truce will be short-lived & basically accomplish nothing except leaving Hamas time to smuggle more arms, build more bunkers, manufacture more Kassams, etc. Between doing nothing (the truce) & a massive ground invasion, there are many, many other options of various degrees of severity. In my opinion, now is not the time to eliminate Hamas in a massive ground invasion. That time passed us by a few years ago when it might have been the correct thing to do. My reasoning is as follows: Olmert & this gov't. generally are not the ones to be in charge of such an operation. They are bunglers. Secondly, we should wait until the phoney peace process collapses - this gov't. under American pressure as well as it's own ill-conceived agenda would hand Gaza over to Abbas. For the time being, there is a middle course - incursions, targeted killing of terrorist leaders, & destruction of Hamas infrastrucure. Keep up the pressure but short of a massive invasion. And no truce.
7. Israel defeated?
Sidney ,   USA   (05.19.08)
This reminds me of 1948. When the Arabs invaded, the world expected Israel to be still born. What other sovereign country in the world allows its people to be bombarded from outside its territory? Either Israel defends its people or goes out of existence. If the price is massive Palestinian casualties and world condemnation, the alternatrve is worse.
8. There are several military solutions
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (05.19.08)
In order to fire kassam rocket at Israel three things are needed; a population pool from which to recruit people doing the firing, a source of rockets for firing, and acess to territory within Kassam-range of Israel; take away any one of those and rocket-fire on Israel will stop. The recruitment pool is composed currently of most of the population of Gaza, to remove it we would have to either massacre a million innocent people or expell them from Gaza. Both are miliatrily possible, but neither is really a permanent fix. the first solution is unacceptable for reasons of moralilty, and the second, while acceptable is only a temporary solution. If rockets can be smuggled in from the Sinai, so can people, and they can come to the sinai from all over the Arab world, so short of WWIII nothing is going to cut off the recruitment pool. As for the source of rockets they, or their components are smuggled in from the Sinai. We can't chase down every smuggling tunel, so we have to cut the rockets of at their source, the Sinai. There are two ways to do this; eithr dig a canal along the border, so that Sinai becomes an island, which is feasable, thogh expensive. Or, since the flow of weapons from the Sinai is an obvious violation of the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty under which the Peninsula is supposed to be demiliterized, we could conquer the Sinai and put the Suez between Gaza and the nearst source of rockets. However since war with Egypt is not a very welcome prospect, let's leave that solution aside and lock at how tocut off the third required resource, territory within assam range. In order to do that, all we have to do is conquer Gaza, we've done it before and we can do it again, the IDF is more than a match for Hamas. And as for t he question of justification in case you didn't know firing rockets indiscriminately at civilians is not just an act of war but also a violation of the laws of war, so we have justification in spades. Once we control Gaza there will be no territory that the terrorists control close enogh to Israel-proper to launch Kassams from. As we have learned, however, Occupation is a messy business requiring a lot of man-power and unsavory (althogh not illegal) tactics). I would therefore recommend expulsion (with compensation of course) but either way the Kassams will stop. And there is a middle-ground between the two options as well; once Gaza is conquered we set up a Palestinian civilian governmmetn there, separate from the PA and sign a peace treaty with it; said peace treaty will stipulate that Israel maintains military control over Gaza but does not settle it and leaves civil control to the Palestinians. In exchange the Gazans don't commit any acts of war against Israel or form any hostile subnational groups; if they violate this treaty then they get expelled. Kassam problem solved. Any questions?
9. Perverse logic
rh ,   Modiin   (05.19.08)
Soldiers are supposed to protect the lives of the citizens not the other way around. Shalit should not dictate policy. Every day police and army put their lives at risk to protect the citizens, that is their function. Shalit's life will be put at risk by conducting an operation. His death will be sad, but a death of a citizen because of refusal to act will be sadder. In Israel the lines have blurred between our soldiers who are supposed to protect us and our Children who we must protect. This is because they are often the same. The soldier however must be the dominant personality. You sound like a European - lets not fight wars so that we do not have dead soldiers. Let Evil prevail.
10. This editorial doesn’t make any sense
Kevin ,   Tel Aviv   (05.19.08)
What is Hanoch Daum talking about, and more importantly, why is he saying it. "There isn’t really a military solution that can stop two terrorists..." Really, you would think that an F-16 would be able to handle two terrorists. "Israel doesn’t need a major operation now, and we can expect that the terrorists are happily awaiting it". Is this really true, the brave Hammas fighters are hoping for an Israeli invasion. If that's the case, why is Hammas so eager to enter a cease fire? Following the argument further, if we do decide to fight back, what can we expect? "...And worst of all, Ashkelon, Sderot, and Beersheba are being bombarded by rockets". Isn't that happening right now? The point of this editorial is to convince the Israeli public that we have already lost the war to Hammas, there is no military solution so the best way forward is to capitulate and negotiate an honorable surrender. If this wasn’t the case, then Hanoch would address the issue of what happens after the 6 month cease fire, when Hammas has larger, more accurate missiles to fire at Sderot, Ashkelon and Beersheba. The answer then will be the same as now, capitulate and negotiate your surrender, again.
11. How many civilians have to die in Sderot and Ashkelon due ..
Yitzchak ,   Yerushalyim   (05.19.08)
How many civilians have to die in Sderot and Ashkelon due to fear of Hamas killing POW's no country at war hold's back for this reason.
12. Ah yes..the Lebanon strategy. Because that worked so well
RA   (05.19.08)
13. stupid stupid stupid
Doron   (05.19.08)
lets take you 10 years into the future if there is no action taken - all israel will be under qassam fire. the gaza solution IS possible - gaza can be invaded, divided into 5-6 segments, no travel between segments, this will markedly diminish rocket fire by stopping rocket transport north.
14. The results of a lull
Arie ,   BaGolan   (05.19.08)
1. The terrorists will have time to replenish their arms without any interference 2. The terrorists will be able to build more tunnels, not just into Egypt but into the Negev, without any interference 3. hamas will enjoy the benefits of being able to show that force does work 4. The PA, with already little credence amongst the palis, will lose what is left since hamas has shown that they can achieve their goals by the use of terror. 5. They will be able to stockpile fuel, food and cash for when the lull ends 6. The lull is over - and a newly refreshed and rearmed terrorist structure begins the rocket fire again, this time with better arms, fortifications, tunnels, and organization That is what our leftists want - the beginning of the end of the Jewish State
15. doron 13
deedy ,   jerusalem   (05.20.08)
you can say anything about the future the coming 10 or 20 years , the future is not more expectation .. but what about the past the 10 or the 20 or the 60 years that was runing here .many openions .laying dishonest . and what occured in the past will resulted in the present .no one can changed the past /but can change this situation to have better future . so runing to fight and fight only is the lull
16. A question for tough-talking talkbackers
NC ,   Canada   (05.20.08)
All of you seem so adamant in your belief that Israel needs to return to the days when it had proper deterrence and creative military strategy. You say that Israel needs to hit Hamas hard so they feel the consequences of their actions. Then how come it seems that the deluded leftists in Israel are the only Israelis actually willing to stand up and voice their beliefs and push for action?? Stop complaining in private and DO SOMETHING!!! Israel needs people who actually care about the country to act! The defeatist leftist mentalty is destroying Israel!
17. Maybe there is no solution....
Ilan ,   Ariel   (05.20.08)
If Daum is right that there is no military solution that will prevent "two guys and a launcher" then he also needs to recognize that there is no written agreement that will do the job either. So I guess the his advice "Gaza for Daummies" would be to do nothing.
18. What isf Schalit is not alive?
Zippy   (05.20.08)
Then this ridiculous article is even more so. Will the author then "sanction" the end to Hamas? G-d save Israel from her enemies from within. If you once and for all take care of your arab problems, we would not be discussing this decades later. www.jerusalemsummit.org has a great solution. How many Israelis know about it? You'll be done with your arab problem without shedding a drop of blood on both sides!!
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