Jewish Scene
Rabbi says deaf 'ineligible for conversion'
Rivkah Luvitch
Published: 27.05.08, 15:30
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
112 Talkbacks for this article
61. revolting rabbi
John de Frece ,   Ramat Gan   (05.27.08)
without doubt Avraham Sherman is the most bigoted obscurantist sitting on the Supreme Rabbinical court. . Down with the Haredim anti Zionists!!
62. RE;11 - The child is Jewish, but I have another question.
Bartley Kulp ,   Safed, Israel   (05.27.08)
Let us say that we hold like Rav Sherman (G-d forbid). Is a Jew who has been observant most of his/her life and subsequently goes deaf exempt from keeping Shabbat?
63. #50, please reply to my #11
justayid   (05.27.08)
JUDAISM, emunah Israel, is a faith that encompasses belief in Torah Israel, which is per se binding on all Jews (am Israel). However Torah Israel includes in its provisions that some Jews are not bound by the Mitzvahs. If someone wishes to join Am israel, and accepts that Torah Israel is binding on them, and ergo that the Mitzvahs are binding on them TO THE EXTENT that Torah says, then why cant they become Jews? Its not the same case as someone who rejects the binding nature of Torah.
64. 40# You thought wrong
a citizen   (05.27.08)
Judaism is based in the real world, where every MATERIAL behaviour / eating, ect counts
65. Rivka , not your business
bar ,   Israel   (05.27.08)
66. #50 - izzy d, Which rabbi is correct?
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (05.27.08)
"if you believe that jews are the chosen ppl of god you must fallow the rabbis. someone that wants to convert, but thinks he knows better then the rabbis on what that conversion means is a paradox " The question that comes up, though, izzy, is which rabbi you want to follow and which community you wish to belong to. Every community has its standards for conversion and no one rabbi today has the authority to dictate what Judaism forbids and what Judaism allows. If this potential convert doesn't like this rabbi's answer, it would behoove her to seek the opinion of another rabbi...
67. A shining example
Abe Froman ,   NY, NY   (05.27.08)
of keeping the letter of the law, whilst violating its spirit. This disgusting Rabbi cannot see Talmudic commentary in its contextual timeframe. In ancient times, being "deaf" once encompassed many forms of mental illness or disability. It was a catch-all. A competent rabbi would interpret the telmudic halacha on the deaf, and their responsibility to keep mitzvot, according to the modern medical definition, which of course assumes deaf people can be productive members of society. On top of all this, this rabbi also torments converts. The Torah prohibits this in several places.
68. Yasir 34
Gary ,   US   (05.27.08)
"You keep asking the Muslims to denounce their fanatics.. I don't see you doing anything about your own :) " Yasir, If you've read the comments you'll see that majority of the posters on this thread are denouncing this fanatic view. Just look at the one before your post entitled "Sad" and the one right after entitled "This ruling is absurd", as well as the ones calling it stupid and reprehensible and loathesome and so forth.
69. #3 jewish ? like jesus ? you mean christian ?
(05.27.08)
So you think that you are more able to understant halaha than a rabbi ? after your conversion, you got the life after life... eating milk and meat together and seafood is just making todays life "better" but all this "good" stuff is just decreasing your status in your eterenal life... think twice... think wise... and you won't escape now... you're jewish !!!! Welcome to the club ! May G. help you to make Teshuvah. amen
70. #59 YOU ARE WRONG
Michael ,   Jerusalem   (05.27.08)
if you "left" the religion, the religion didn't leave you one single moment... ITS YOUR CHOICE if you "left" Israel, and sure you are not "shalem" with this - its again YOUR CHOICE ... You are born Jewish so even partially deaf will not get you out Judaism at all... G.D maybe tries to say Shema Israel .... Haredim serve G.d as we should do. I think you are talking about some bad guys that wear black and white clothes that YOU call "haredim" ?
71. ARE THESE F-K ORTHODOX HASSLES JEWISH?
Tom ,   San Francisco   (05.27.08)
And these evil Orthodox rabbis want to teach others Judaism? One among the many shameful deeds that the Orthodox have done. And I am not even speaking of what sincere converts have to put up with the Orthodox to convert!! And a bunch of black Ethiopians from Africa inventes a bogus story claiming falsely, against reason, logic and facts, to have Jewish roots and they are converted Orthodox! And only because they are black and it would be supposedly racist to prevent these bogus, insincere economic refugees from Ethiopia from converting. A conversion (Orthodox or else) based on lies is completely invalid!
72. The deaf learn Torah as well as anyone
Aryeh David ,   Toronto, Canada   (05.27.08)
In Toronto we are proud to have the world's only Yeshiva for the deaf. It was founded in 2001 by Rabbi Chaim Tzvi Kakon, and Dr. Hart Bressler, both of whom are deaf. I would venture the opinion that the adherence to Torah and Mitzvot of these two, and probably their student body as well, is at least equal to that of Rabbi Sherman. They may be deaf, but they are no less "Shomrei Mitzvot". The old expression was 'deaf and dumb'. Rabbi Sherman may not be deaf, but he sure is dumb.
73. JUSTAYID #11: Question
Steve ,   Fla.   (05.28.08)
Because a person is deaf why are they exempt from keeping the mitzvahs? Is a deaf person incapable of learning? Are we to believe a deaf person has no moral or spiritual obligations because he or she is deaf? This is a silly notion. A person that is born deaf or becomes deaf may live an immoral and unethical life? Many of our commandments deal with morals and ethics. What gives here?
74. Elyashiv's poodle
Joshua ,   NY   (05.28.08)
This Rabbi Sherman is one of Rabbi Elyashiv's "poodles" (to paraphrase Rabin's description of yore). The National Religious opposed his nomination which was pushed through by the Haredim & Kadima (now there's an unholy coupling for you). This is the guy that wrote that disgusting decision regarding Rabbi Druckman. Now this. What next? I don't know, but it is sure to be another step in Rabbi Elyashiv's dream of bringing about the abolishment of the chief Rabbinate. Brought to Jews everywhere courtesy of the hate-filled Haredim and the corrupt leaders of Kadima.
75. let them convert
Zuri ,   Sydney Australia   (05.28.08)
this is one of the most ridiculous ever been heard. So many Jews have eyes but they can not see they have brain but they cannot think Jewish is not better of than anybody else the problem these days is that many peoples who wants to convert for whatever reason is being blocked by our Rabbis a major part of jews are originated from non jewish European and other origins whom converted if anyone crazy enough to want to become a jew........welcome and welcome, and cut the bull crap
76. What if it goes the other way?
Chana ,   USA   (05.28.08)
Supposed she can't covert to marry her Jewish love? Then maybe her Jewish love would covert tout of Judaism to marry her? Ever think this could happen? Yes, it can!, and odds are that's exactly what will happen next. The interfaith marriage rate in the Jewish Deaf community is above 90%. And I'll bet the Missionaries are going to print this out and shove it in the Jewish Deaf's face as yet one more reason to convert to Christianity! The Rabbinate deserves to be labeled the Jewish Taliban!
77. talk back
chana ,   USA   (05.28.08)
This rabbi doesn't deserve to be a rabbi at all. He should be completely ashamed of himself, and I am appalled that this is what religious mentors are teaching the next generation of torah observant Jews. I am afraid that the children of today will turn into men like him. How dare he have the nerve to determine who is able or unable to perform good deeds and g-d's commandments???!!!! Rabbi Avraham Sherman, I ask that you please not continue to be a rabbi for the jews if this is what you will preach to us all. Shame on you!!!!!
78. 65 bar: Jealous and complaining again. No wonder
Rivkah   (05.28.08)
people tell you your comments are not weighty. You must be menopausal. When that hit my mother, she attacked and screamed and threw temper fits for seven years instead of taking the hormone replacement therapy she needed. There are bio-identical hormones that are less hazardous than Premarin and Provera. Try it. Or ask for a lithium prescription.
79. #71
ilyse ,   israel   (05.28.08)
i agree with you that the ORTHODOX rabbis are evil and should be ashamed of themselves. BUT YOU ARE WAY OUT OF LINE. HOW DARE YOU SAY ''A BUNCH OF BLACK ETHIOPIANS FROM AFRICA INVENTED A STORY'. are you jewish.??? have you ever been to ISRAEL?? HAVE YOU EVER MEET A ETHIOPIAN JEW? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A ETHIOPIAN JEW IN THE ISRAEL ARMY STANDING TALL IN HIS UNIFORM AND PROTECTING HIS COUNTRY. COLOR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RABBIS COVERTING THEM. DID YOU KNOW THEY HAD TO BE RE-CIRCOMCISMED. WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE RUSSIANS THAT HAD A GREAT GRANDMOTHER WHO WAS JEWISH. WALK INTO A STORE WHERE A RUSSIAN IS WORKING AND ASK HER IF SHE IS JEWISH. THE ANSWER IS NO!!!!!! NOW GO ASK A BLACK ETHIOPIAN JEW IF HE IS A JEW. THE ANSWER IS YES. YOU ARE A RACIST OF THE WORST KIND. I HOPE YOU ARE NOT JEWISH - YOU DISCUSSED ME.
80. Blind leading the blind
steve ,   london, england   (05.28.08)
This ruling will not stand and this Rabbinical Court will be reformed. A proper Jewish Rabbinical Court will replace it and the ruling will be overturned. The ruling that a human being is incapable of performing the mitsvot if impaired in hearing or sight is a ruling deserving of eternal condemnation. Next they will be telling us deafness or blindness is a punishment from GOD. The ruling will leave many speechless for a while but soon a tide of revulsion will gather against this ruling. These people are not Jews. They are administrators without a sense of humanity. Their world exists in Dead Sea Scrolls and Genizah. It is utterly deplorable. Who on Earth has the authority to speak for GOD in this matter of who is fit and who is not fit to be subject to the mitsvot? And who is to speak for GOD regarding who is fit to observe the mitsvot? GOD said thou shalt love the Lord thy GOD with all thy heart, mind and soul. GOD drew the line right there. GOD did not say thou shalt love the Lord thy GOD with all thy old books. Our GOD is the GOD of the living and the dead. Whether they have ears that hear, eyes that see or mouths that speak. GOD makes no distinction in the universality of the law and the sovereignty of the law.
81. Conversion of the deaf
stanley gibbons ,   Toledo Ohio   (05.28.08)
Those Rabbis are and will be deaf to the multitude of reasonable Jews and to Hashem. What divisive craetures.
82. How can we petition against this "rabbi"?
Ilana ,   US   (05.28.08)
This "rabbi" is cruel and DUMB, meaning IGNORANT. Deaf people are NOT "dumb". They have a complete language and can OBVIOUSLY learn just like hearing people. I am a sign language interpreter. My first teacher was born deaf and had a Master's Degree. There are deaf physicians and other professionals who are deaf. If this "rabbi" is so learned in halacha, then he must know of all the "loop holes" people use everyday to "keep" the mitzvot while actually totally disregarding them, e.g. "eruv" (religious legal fiction of using a symbolic 'fence' around a whole town and calling it one's "own yard"). So, my dear little ignorant "rabbi", what exactly IS sound? It is VIBRATION. ANY and ALL deaf people can feel vibrations. Ergo, they can even "hear" a shofar blown by simply touching it. Why don't you "pil-pel" that into halacha? This ruling by a moron "rabbi" is beyond, way beyond, DISGUST. GET RID OF HIM AND HIS ILK!!!!!!!!!!!
83. rivka , wrong i can't be menopausal
bar ,   Israel   (05.28.08)
but you , are rejected by everyone , exept your pets , they are the only who agree with you .
84. Deaf
LL ,   Israel   (05.28.08)
Conversions in order to marry a Jew are not allowed. A person who is deaf but can communicate even if only in sign language and who really wants to be an observant Jew should be allowed to convert. To Patricia Goldberg # 3: What kind of conversion did you have? In my eyes, even if it was Orthodox, you are still not a Jew. You did not change your life in any way with your conversion, so the whole thing was a lie and a farce.
85. #55 Joe
El-Nakam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (05.28.08)
The keyword in your response is "halachically." And the chances of Patricia having gone through a halachic conversion are roughly the same as my becoming a tap dancing grizzly bear.
86. And for the record...
El-Nakam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (05.28.08)
As an observant Jew, I think this particular ruling is wrong. However, unlike the majority of talkbackers, I don't use this opportunity to crap on Orthodox Judaism. We weren't "Chosen" to be or do anything else OTHER than learn and observe the Torah. This is one Rabbi with political power who is abusing it (and not the only one, unfortunately).
87. 83 bar: People tell me in tb's that they appreciate my posts
Rivkah   (05.28.08)
You do not, so skip them. Why upset yourself by reading them? To other people, what I say is often helpful which is a way of doing good deeds with my time. If you are not menopausal, then I do not know what your problem is. I am not God, nor am I a psychologist or psychiatrist. You radiate anger and perhaps some things or people enraged you and you need a target that is safe to rant at. Nothing new about that. YNET does a community service through tb's for a lot of people.
88. TO RIKah : You are always welcome. i appreciate you :-)~
YITZAK BEN SHLOMO ,   SINGAPORE   (05.28.08)
89. deaf
nossen tzvi ,   J-M   (05.28.08)
After reading the comments it seems that there are alot of people who are ignorant of Jewish ways and apparently hostile to orthodox rabbis . The rabbis could say that things have changed because of hearing aids and sophisticated education. But does the woman desire to convert for love of Judaism or the love of her boyfriend?
90. deaf people
Peter ,   Tel Aviv   (05.28.08)
it is not my judaism either... how misled can people get? plenty I guess...
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article