Opinion
Homosexuality isn’t perversion
Rabbi Chaim Navon
Published: 03.06.08, 17:09
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31. #26 And you would know this because why?
Tina Turner ,   NYC   (06.04.08)
32. he's a reform "rabbi". is his position a surprise?
david ,   new york   (06.04.08)
see link. http://www.huc.edu/newspubs/pressroom/07/11/ord.shtml putting himself out as a "rabbi" is dishonest. some people may have thought he was religious. being that they have homosexual reform "rabbis" its not terribly surprising that he should be supportive of homosexuality
33. This Rabbi Needs To Read His Torah
David ,   Jerusalem   (06.04.08)
Eating non-kosher food is punishable by lashes, or in a few cases, spiritual excision. Homosexuality is punishable by death and is specifically referred to as an "abomination." No such condemnation is attached to eating non-kosher food. Indeed, homosexuality and bestiality receive some of the harshest terms the bible has to offer. Thats a darned sight more serious, and critical, than eating non-kosher food. On the one hand sin is sin, on the other, some sins are indeed worse for the soul and society than others. I could understand it is this so-called rabbi compared it to adultery - another forbidden relationship and one punishable by death - but eating non-kosher food? Ridiculous. No such human being should be allowed to call themselves rabbi. This is obvious peshat. If you can't get that right go home and leave the interpretation of Torah to seven and eight year olds who understand it.
34. A view from a gay guy
Gay Guy ,   TA   (06.04.08)
Yes im gay, im jewish and im Israeli. i have a partner for 10 yrs we have 2 children , i work pay taxes , serve in the army and contribute to society and believe i am a good person that helps others. I do not believe in the Torah as a life style, yet those who do seem to feel they have the right to judge , slander and insult us and inciite hatred towards us based on a religous belief. Yes in the past i have been physically attacked for being gay. Being gay is not a disease a mental condition, or a disability. It is someones genetic make up as some one who is black. So please keep your hatred and ignorance to yourselfs. We are entitled to live our lives in the way that we choose as much as you are. Hatred based on prejudice against a group because of race, colour, religion or sexual orientation is the real "abomination.
35. Gutless religion
Bill Ross ,   Sylvania, AL, USA   (06.04.08)
Why can a Rabbi confidently say that eating pork is forbidden (as natural as that is) but then defer to those who, at odds with both biology and Torah, indulge in homosexuality? If you are going to pretend to be leading others under the direction of Torah, then don't ascribe authority to one part of the text and then relativize another, problematic part. The account of Adam and Eve, along with that of Sodom and Gommorah, lend no space for this behavior - which also flies in the face of the biological rules of reproduction. Has the good rabbi noticed that in the Arab sector off Israel, reproduction is seen as a duty and they are quickly becoming the majority population. Jew's won't become as the stars of the sky for multitude by splashing around in the hot tub.
36. I'm here, I'm queer. Get over it.
JD Edelman ,   USA   (06.04.08)
Regardless what meaning one attaches to the biblical provision that homosexuality is an abomination, the more pressing question is whether, in a free society, one should be permitted to engage in homosexual acts. The answer must be "yes". Free society must accommodate people of varying religions (including no religion) because religion is action motivated by conscience. So it is with homosexuality. Only when all of us are free to follow our consciences, is any of us truly free.
37. Homosexuality is a perversion if you want to live with God
Rivkah   (06.04.08)
for eternity. If you don't want to be with the Lord for eternity, then anything goes.
38. Homosexuality isn’t perversion
Tony ,   Wellington, New Zeal   (06.04.08)
Adonai did not give His law for our past, present or future, but for His omnipresence. It has only been in the last 30 years that we have understood the current meaning of His law. What does it mean for our future? As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
39. Who Loves The Homosexuals More . . .
Craig Crawford ,   Laguna Niguel USA   (06.04.08)
First, let's hear what the Bible says . . . "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God." (Deuteronomy 22:5) "Do you not know that the unrighteous will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" Do not be decevied. NEITHER fornicators, (sexually immoral) NOR adulterers, NOR homosexuals, NOR sodomites, NOR thieves, ... will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such WERE some of you ('Repent' means 'stop and turn back to God') But you were washed (by the righteous blood of Jesus-Yeshua shed for our sins) But you were sanctified (means "set apart") But you were justified (justified means 'just as if your sin had never happened') in the Name of the Lord Jesus-Yeshua and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) The Bible ALSO warns those who just 'APPROVE' of those ... "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men . . . For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature [lesbianism]. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burning in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful [homosexuality] . . . that those who practice these things are worthy of death [Hell], and NOT ONLY those who do the same but ALSO THOSE WHO APPROVE of those who practice them!" (Rom 1:18, 26, 27, 32) Here, God clearly warns all those who simply "approve of " these things with their great "open-mindedness" will be held JUST AS ACCOUNTABLE as those who actually do them. WHO LOVES THE HOMOSEXUAL MORE? The Christian (a follower of Jesus-Yeshua, the Messiah of Israel) is commanded to 'love others and treat them as we would want to be treated.' According to the Bible, a person living in homosexual sin "will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven" and those who "approve of those who do such things" will be held just as guilty. Jesus-Yeshua, the Messiah's first command was to 'repent' (turn away from those things which are in opposition to God's Law) and then to trust in Him alone to save us from all our sins. He said He came to 'save sinners' ... lots of them ... both Jew and Gentile ... any who would believe and trust in Him. The Bible warns until we acknowledge we are sinners and that we desperately need a Savior (to save us from our sins ... past, present, and future) we won't be saved from Hell. SO, WHO LOVES THE HOMOSEXUAL MORE? One who tells them it's okay to continue in a sin the Bible warns will condemn them to an eternity in Hell, or someone who is willing to endure the anger, ridicule, and hate to warn them and to try to get them into Heaven as a neighbor? In Proverbs 27:6 God says, 'Faithful are the wounds of a friend ... but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.' Jesus-Yeshua said more about Hell than He did about Heaven ... and the true believing Christian will try to get as many boys, girls, men, and women into the Kingdom of Heaven as possible. If a Christian truly hated the homosexual (or anyone willfully sinning against God's law) they would simply keep silent and let them suffer in the eternal darkness, loneliness, and torment of Hell after they die. Yet, all believing Christians have had to come face-to-face with the fact we are all sinners and desperately need a 'Savior' to save us from our sins and from Hell. Jesus-Yeshua, the Messiah, commands us to 'love our enemies' ... and you can't love someone without warning them when they are in great and grave danger ... Grace and Shalom,
40. Opinion
Marilyn ,   USA   (06.04.08)
I'm not quite sure at the point that he's trying to get across. We all have sins, but at the same time people need to be warned that certain situations and such can be physically dangerous. Can get into situations that involve failure to warn.
41. homosexuality - a HOT topic!
ilan ,   ta   (06.04.08)
everyone loves to talk about homosexuals. they just can't get enough. this rabbi makes sense and if you're religious and believe that homosexuality is wrong, you should also believe that doing other forbidden things is wrong. if not, you're a hypocrite. but what ever people believe, everyone just loves talking about gay people - they can't get enough! and this is the most interesting topic. keep on discussing!
42. To#37: Rivkah - Another silly comment!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (06.04.08)
You should rather concentrate your homophobic energy to dealing with the real perverts in this country. The child molester, the rapists, the rabbis who torture children and run away to South America and so on! As for the Lord, well, maybe HE should have a good look at Ahmadinejad and you should look at yourself. Just as the Lord gave you the right to live he gave the same right to all. The Torah commands : "Thou shalt not kill" but Moses seems to have made a few changes. Leviticus is Moses' law whereas the Ten Commandmants are Gods Law!
43. To #34: Gay Guy TA. Kol Ha Kavod
Gay Guy ,   Karmiel, Israel   (06.04.08)
Well said!
44. #37 is enough to turn any straight man gay
Israel   (06.04.08)
45. It stems from in the closet gay men
Talula ,   Israel   (06.04.08)
who are terrified to identify with gay people because they think that by putting up a wall and protesting about gay men being 'perverted' will convince themselves they are straight. Uh HUH!!! A person isn’t born with the option of being gay, you don’t grow up to be gay, you are born GAY. That’s just how it is. People that are secure with their sexuality have absolutely no problems with the gay community and treat them, as they would, anyone else. That includes straights and religious people. The sad people that live by the greatest story ever written (The Bible) have no direction in life, they need to be told what to eat, when to eat, when to pray and how to behave. I'm sorry, but if you compare that behaviour with people service a life sentence in prison, you'll see there is no difference. The people that cannot accept gay people should at the very least respect them and treat them as they would anyone else. They don't have to join in gay parades and visit gay bars. Just respect them as a fellow human being.
46. There is other news as well
Bystander ,   Israel   (06.04.08)
amazing how many people comment on the gay issue (37 so far) and not so much on other news. How can an article about gays provoke so much response? You know what they are saying about homophobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
47. # 34/36
Thomas   (06.04.08)
I have no problem with what either of you are saying. However, I wish gay people could understand that some of us have a problem with public displays of sexuality that you frequently see in news footage of gay parades. Not because they show homosexuality but simply because that behavior belongs in private. Gay people seemingly are unwilling to respect our feelings in this regard and it shouldn't shock you if you get less than adequate support from the public you chose to ignore.
48. Homosexuals
mr ,   israel   (06.04.08)
Must say it seems improbable that there are so many out there due to biological reasons. Way back when I was a young girl and spent a night out with a mixed group of boys/girls in Greenwich Village NY,a girl started flirting with me and her friend became furious ! I was utterly disgusted by this display and left. Must say I am prejudiced - keep it to yourselves.
49. # 47 Thomas - let me answer your question
Gay Guy ,   TA Israel   (06.04.08)
Hi Thomas let me answer your question. We have gay parades as still in the year 2008 we are denied various basic human rights which are afforded to hetrosexuals, such as immagration the right to recognised partnership, death rights and even visiting rights in hospitals. The fact that we can be open and live in a free and tollerent society is a good thing for anyone who believes in freedom and democracy and not what we are witnessing in Iran today where they execute peopld for their sexuality. We are subjuected to hatred and viloence which has been encouraged by the Shas party which makes us more vocal. I for one dress in jeans and a tshirt so i dont think i will offend anyone walking down the street. Just like in any society or group there are the extreme elements much like we see women practically naked in the Love Parade in TA. i guess its a matter of live and let live. Although i congratulate you for your tollerance and understanding. Hatred based on prejudice against a group because of race, colour, religion or sexual orientation is the real "abomination. TX
50. To #34 - I agree with you however ....
Gay Guy ,   Karmiel, Israel   (06.04.08)
Why don't you and the others who "have a problem with public displays of sexuality that you frequently see in news footage of gay parades" protest at the heterosexual sexuality we are bombarded with EVERY DAY on the TV, in the press and in the movies. If two people want to hold hands then why should this be limited to heterosexuals? I do not like the Pride Parades but I support the Pride movement. If people do not exercise their rights then where would we Jews be? Still in the ghetto? Would Senator Obama be allowed to become a candidate for the US Presidency? You can't have human rights and civil liberties that are only for heterosexuals!
51. To #45 - You a so right, Talula
Gay Oldie ,   The Galilee   (06.04.08)
I am one of those you refer to. I was married,now widowed. I have two beautiful children (hetro) in their 30's and I am in my sixties. All my life I tried to be "straight" and even now I still have not come "out" although I did come "out" to my late wife and kids a few years ago. They were a bit shocked but were supportive. My wife and I stayed together at her insistence. Oh yes, Talula, I have been there and I am still there. Yes, I am a coward, but in mitigation, I grew up in a very different age in a country where you could go to jail for being gay or having a gay relationship. It is a fear aggravated by some of the hateful opinions voiced in this county by politicians and Talkbackers on YnetNews who no doubt will tell me to stay in the closet. As you say, no one choses to be gay, straight, black, black or white. But we do have the choice to be tolerant and understanding of those who are different. You made that choice and I salute you! I promise you, my fear is very real although probably mostly psychological. At my age its not to come out. Actually, to be honest, I don't know how!
52. You're actually wrong
eddie ,   london   (06.04.08)
As is #5. This is a nonsense made up by rabbis. If the Torah makes a statement that forbidden food is an abomination, then it is, and we should not desire it. Mr Breslauer has obviously picked up this in his Yeshiva studies, but it contradicts the Torah. ANd the smae goes with Rabbi Navon. Homosexuality is a very queer behaviour, and is described as such by the Torah. It is one thing to say that for gay people it may seem normal, but the Torah was not Politically Correct. The Irony is that Rabbinical law is much more lenient towards this behaviour, despite their many public protests.
53. If you have a problem with gays, you're prob gay yourself
Eli ,   Jerusalem   (06.04.08)
People always hate their own 'flaws.' It's an old argument that's applicable to nearly every form of hate.
54. It's Forbidden
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (06.04.08)
Somebody’s insisting that God said something is forbidden or an abomination doesn’t make it so. After all, if God is the source of unending creativity and thus constantly evolving, why do we hang onto beliefs that appear static? Doesn’t God want us, too, to grow?? I know this much: If my God were to have spoken, shrimps and pork chops would not have been mentioned. Instead, He would have put a serious hex on boiled okra, with mayonnaise, pancakes, and those disgusting lumps of dough referred to around here as biscuits tied for second place. Those are real abominations serving no purpose other than to make one sick at the sight of that greenish slime of one and to clog up one’s arteries and pack on unhealthy blubber as respects the other three. Communal stoning should still be the accepted form of punishment for anyone spoiling perfectly nice holidays by plunking a bowl full of boiled okra on the dinner table. The fact that somebody’s God didn’t know about okra, mayo, pancakes, and biscuits makes me wonder why or what He, supposedly, did or didn’t know about other things. I can’t say that I hear voices, but something nags me to lay off the stuff and that’s good enough for me. As for gays, maybe they’re a test of how some of us choose to behave vis a vis those of His creatures, who happen to be different from what we think they should be. My disposition during a meal consisting of nothing but shrimp cocktail in the company of gays would be glorifying God much more than a pancake breakfast surrounded by the most faithful adherents to whatever religion. The last one would fall under the definition of penance. A lot of religious do’s and don’ts sound just a little too much like having no purpose other than to exert control over people and a measure of just how far they can be pushed. When something seems totally devoid of logic, here comes, “because that’s what God said,” and in my book that doesn’t honor God. If we were meant to listen to what other people insist God commanded them to tell us, why are we all born with a conscience? Would He have endowed us with the powers of logic and reason only to immediately demand that we suspend both based on what somebody else insists God told him/her? Something is missing from this picture. When my time comes, I do not want to have to explain why I trusted more in what someone said than in the innate knowledge of right and wrong He had given me as one of His children. Why would God make pronouncements that take Popes, Sheiks, Rabbis, and Gurus to explain over and over and over? It implies that God was befuddled at one point in time and always needs clarifying or that He created us to be nincompoops except for the aforementioned, special, and mostly self-appointed few, neither one being much of a testament to an omnipotent and omniscient God in the likeness of which we’re created. I highly suspect that it’s not God who’s ever befuddled. Customs and traditions are one thing. “It’s forbidden,” because it’s in one man-written book or the other is a horse of a color that precludes its being a horse, at all.
55. Rabbi Navon - go preach at your local gay parades!
Jim ,   Texas, USA   (06.04.08)
56. Homosexuality isn’t perversion
Eric Mahr ,   jerusalem Israel   (06.04.08)
Except for the inconvenient fact that The Torah calls it an abomination.
57. 34 G.G.: You say you live by the Torah, then read it.
Rivkah   (06.04.08)
You will find that it is an abomination for a man to have sex with a man as he has sex with a woman. If you loved the Lord, you would try to do what he says he prefers. How sad for you to find out after you die the Lord never knew you. You must repent of what offends the Lord if you want to be with him eternally. You think license is freedom. That is the devil's lie. Self-denial and OBEYING the Torah is freedom.
58. 42 David: The Commandment Thou shalt not kill is a
Rivkah   (06.04.08)
mistranslation of the Hebrew Thou Shalt not MURDER. Moses killed an Egyptian in defense of a fellow Hebrew. Murder is PREMEDITATED and WITH MALICE and forethought. Moses did not plan ahead of time to kill someone. He was protecting a Hebrew brother who was not thankful of the cost to Moses. Sadly, the homosexuals are more likely to be child molesters and murderers than heterosexuals. Homosexuals are most likely to kill when a partner wants to leave. If you think the agenda of gays to rape children is not real, read about MBLA, the Man-Boy-Love-Association that is trying to get sex with children legalized. Even US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader-Ginsburg believes homosexual rape of children should not be prosecuted. Obviously, she was never raped as a child or she would have some idea of the physical and emotional trauma. Former President Ronald Reagan's adopted son Michael was raped as a child and said the emotionally destructive effects are horrific and long lasting.
59. 44: If you don't want to be with me eternally, then
Rivkah   (06.04.08)
you should become an atheist or continue to mock God. Being holy, I don't think He will want you in His company. You won't be lonely in hell since there are so many people there. You will be afraid and thirsty and in darkness and heat, but there will be lots of other people there screaming for all eternity for you to listen to or join in the chorus.
60. 54: You are the spiritually blind leading the spiritually
(06.04.08)
blind. Physically blind people have more knowledge and understanding of the Bible than you. You call black white and white black.
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