Where did they attack someone ? They are attacked , with words [ look at some tb's ] and acts [ a parading person was stabbed ] Do they say that the charidi people are vil ? are not worth anything ? No , they don't say it . They only defend themselve against some extremist guys , so called religious , who don't even obey the Edah Charidi Rabbanim who said the parade should be ignored . If they are acting against the Torah , who are you all to judge them ? . Only god , if you believe that he exists , can judge them .

Even though I am not Jewish, I have a lot of sympathy for the Jewish people, the Jewish tradition and the Jewish land. I am horrified by your hatred for the Haredi Jews. The Haredi are the "source vive" (living source) of Judaism in the world and in Israel. If you hate them, you hate your own origin and necessarily you hate Israel. I think that you unconsciously hate yourself. There is a lot of beauty in Judaism, many things one can love. Try love instead of hatred, Talula.

Just goes to show the level of these people, all they can do is threaten violence and act in a lawless manner. It seems they are afraid of freedom and democracy , which is strange when that same freedom and democracy allows them not to work, pay taxes or serve in the army. who is next on their hit list? Single mothers, black people, people who drive on Shabbat , maybe they should go join their brothers in Afghanistan where they belong. There hatred and demonstration only empasises the need to march in Jerusalem and actually gives us more publicity. Its not just about gay rights its for any one that cares about freedome and democracy. We will be in Jerusalem today and we will be Next Year in Jerusalem which is our democratic capital

Do tell me how is the view from command center in Boston. You dont live in Israel,work in Israel , serve in the army or pay taxes. I on the other hand do! Therefore i have the right to freedom and democracy unlike they ultra orthadox who do not work, pay taxes or serve in the army. Yet they dont mind taking my gay tax money , which by the way adds up to millions. We will march everyyear and no threats of violence will stop us untill we get our basic human rights.

The Gays are on the same side as many of the people they claim to oppose, like chauvanists, exploiters, abusers, thieves, bullies and more; in that their only value is satisfying a desire without regard to ideas outside or above that desire. all of the above are transgressions of Torah equally applicable to NON believers as to believers Not believing in a law or a law-giver doesn't exempt the non believer from accountability, and the gays, (as well as Shas, which is in a position to stop the parade but won't) will get their dues. But they are also violating democratic ideas of mutual respect by demonstrating for provocation in a city whose majority is offended by the

And for today , that includes sending potentially dangerous substances to city officials, stone those taking part Issuing death threats, prehaps they will even have time to attack afew lesbians for that hideous crime of riding on a bus, or how about throwing acid in a young girls face for wearing jeans? Well what else do you have to do lets face it when they dont work , pay taxes or serve in the army and all this from our gay tax money! Dont you just love religion Where as the gay people are sitting in the park, listening to music haveing a few beers in the afternoon sunshine, how strange their march is peacefull and in the spirit of love and harmony, promoting acceptance and tollerance of others.

take your points but i can tell you as a gay man i find the sight of ultra orthdox offensive. They are religious parasites that contribute nothing to society, dont work, pay taxes or serve in our army. I will be on the parade today, maybe you can spot me,i have jeans , a red tshirt and brown shoes, hope that not to offensive for you . i also find it pretty offensive that as a gay man and a jew and as a tax payer and as a soldier i am still denied my basic human rights that other people take for granted, denied to me because of a religious superstition. The fact is gay people make up a large part of the population and we are not going to conveniently dissapear or keep quiet just to please the religious biggots amongst us. The hate campaing and threats of viloence , naturally stired up by Shas just make us more determind. C U in Jerusalem buddy

Hi Rami, as a gay guy i have been campaigning for Palestinina rights and promoting the right of the Palestinian people to have east jerusalem as their capital. Would you like me to stop this campaign to. You see its about freedom and democracy for all , even if one group does not agree or approve of the other groups goals or objectives. Im sure even you can understand that one my friend, for like me you are also a minority that is being persecuted by the state and the religious.

And I read the HaEdah magazine every week (this is the official publication of the "Edah Haredit"). And this week's HaEdah (distributed last Friday) doesn't include *anything* on the Parade: nothing at all, not even one word. There is going to be a small protest at Kikar Shabbat, but that is only minor, really. From the side of the Edah, there will not be any serious protests, and definitely no use of violence. We never use violence; we never did and never will. Those who use violence are troubled youth and American yeshiva students, abandoned here by their parents for a year or two in which they behave like animals and cause a huge desecration (Chillul Hashem).

Yes , Charidim , at least some of them , are attacked by Talula , and by many others . Do you regularly read the talk backs here ? have you seen how some of them reject everyone not obeying to their laws ? Other point . Many , if not most , of them don't serve the country , don't contribute anything . They live on other's money . Ils vivent au depens d'autrui . Would you like to pay for people who regard you as not valuable ? This is one of the reasons many Israelis dislike [ at least ] them .

and avoid them the abomination of watching it. thanks to paraders atitude of stamping on our faces what we don't need to watch And they want my simpathy in exchange... sure. Whatever "understanding" one might accomplish towards them just goes down the drain

What a typical, delusional leftist you are. Wake up and smell the coffee! With all your bleeding-heart support for the Palestinians at the expense of Israel, you are now surprised and shocked, that your beloved Palestinian brothers prove to be such gay-haters! And eschew your leftist, humanistic, liberal crap... Serves you just right. Have you ever seen that movie, The Mars Invasion (Haplisha Me-maadim)? You remind me of that naive fellow who tried to reason with the Marsians, and kept telling everyone they are friends... And when the Marsians opened fire in the U.S. Congress, he came up to them, so shocked, "But why are you doing this??? This makes no sense!!!" Or alternatively - that famous story with the toad helping the scorpion cross the river... Get it into your head - it's in their nature!

Thank Hashem that I, as a gentile, need no longer rely on the Jewish people to intermediate for me from Jerusalem.

I hope that you are the only pro palestinian rights over east Jerusalem in your gay community . Otherwise you will loose my support for your rights . You know friends of my enemies , can't be my friends . As someone who was in the IDF , you should remember the sacrifices soldiers made to liberate the Old Town , and the promises made to them that those sacrifices where not in vain , that Jerusalem would remain united forever . Even a secular as i am , was full of emotion when i heard Rav Goren blow the Shofar this great day in June 67 .

Do you live in the vicinity of the parade ? Probably not , so why lock your children up ? Just tell them no to go to the Independance and Bell parks . That's all . There are many other places in our Capital , not ?

And keep them all in one huge closet. A march in a closet is safe and no one can stone them. Closets for old clothes and queens. Why do gays need a parade? It seems more of a provocation than anything else.

Yes, we would like you to stop that campaign too.

So why , if you are a believing Jew , has god created Gays ? In the same way , why has he allowed murderers to murder our people ? Maybe it's because there is no god ? so why should gays be "sining" , if there is no god who can forbid it ?

Ilan - I am all for fun but not if it horribly offends the majority of the public. If youre gonna have fun in public, you cant do it against the will of the public. This applies to anything fun, not just gay parades. Everyone else seems to understand this concept except the gay community. Incognio - What right is there to marriage? Marriage is an obligation not a right. While any person has the natural right to live in freedom and be allowed to prosper free from discrimination of any sort (including sexual preference), where does getting a certificate from the state fit into natural rights? In fact, marriage is and has always been only a RELIGIOUS institution. A true secularist will rally to have marriage removed from the secular and government worlds as it is a religious concept; a true secularist will try to shrink marriage not expand it. Additionally, while the government gives certain financial BENEFITS (not rights) to married people, those benefits are extended only because married people usually have kids to take care of and kids are both important to the continuation of any society and also expensive. But I dont think anyone objects to expanding those benefits to anyone with children, gay or not (and for that matter remove them for anyone without children, married or not). Also, heterosexuality is not a fetish as the word is commonly used to mean a sexual preference that is not shared by the majority of people. Finally, the gays are NOT rallying for any rights (if they were there would not be any opposition) they are parading their sexual desires. They want to show how proud they are of how they feel. That I truly do not get because who cares? There is a big difference between a rally and a parade.

Go here and tell me if you think these are the kind of people you respect and want to view as "normal" equals in our mainly heterosexual society. This is astounding, but totally true. http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/08b/pride_week/dyke_march/index.html

Heterosexuality is not a fetish .......word means a sexual preference that is not shared by the majority [ you wrote , approx. ] Does this mean that the majority is homosexual ? Marriage is an obligation . You wrote . Where ? in wich country are people obliged to get married ? Yes , in some religious communities , daughters are obliged to get married . This has to disappear . Marriage a religious ? no more in the vast majority of democratic countries . There you have civil marriage , and if you want it , you can have a religious after it . Benefits fior married couples ? what kind and where ? in most countries couples receive child allowances , no benefits for being married . Yes , in some countries there are some tax deductions for married people , if both of them work !

Thank you for your post. I think you misunderstoof everything I wrote (perhaps English is not your thing). I wish I can converse with you in Hebrew because my Hebrew is fluent and your English appears quite poor. Nonetheless, Incognito described heterosexuality as a fetish. I said that most people define a fetish as a sexual lust not shared by the majority. Thus, homosexuality is and heterosexuality is not a fetish as the word is commonly used. Marriage is an obligation in the sense that once you CHOOSE to get married you get no benefits from the choice but rather the law now places new obligations upon you such as child support and alimony, among other social obligations such as monogamy. (Look it up, thats a big one). I certainly did not mean that anyone is obligated to get married. I truly do not understand what a secular marriage is unless you mean a contract in which two people promise to support each other. This is a contract, not a marriage. A marriage is ONLY religious by its very nature. Anyone can enter into any kind of contract he or she wants to including a contract to support any man or woman you want. A marriage, however, is a religious decree. If there are no governmental benefits for married people then why do gays want marriage? I believe, however, that certain tax breaks are given to married people because of the financial burdens that having kids places on a couple. I believe all people who have kids should be entitled to these breaks, gay or not. I believe this to actually be the case, as well. Incognito was arguing that the gays want the same marriage benefits that heterosexuals receive. My argument is that the benefits ought to be limited to people (not just couples) with families (gay or not). It happens to be that most gay couples do not have or want children. My final argument was that Incognito was just making excuses for the gay pride parade and that the parade was not about rights but about teh gay community's strange desire to parade their sexual preferences which I argued was a personal matter and should not be subject of a pride parade.

Yes, everyone is sorry that the parade offends the majority. But that's the beauty of democracy. In a democratic society, people are offended and that provides great motivation for debate. That's what's wonderful about democracy. If you don't agree wit ha gay parade in jersusalem, the best way to counter that is by having a anti-gay parade in TA. why not? you're certainly entitled to. If you don't agree, the nyou don't agree with democracy, which is also fine, but is not the legal environment in Israel.

There are no [ exept tax breaks if both work ] for married couples WITHOUT children . When there are children there are allowances . Why gays want to be married ? because if after many years of living together , even if they made "wills' , the survivant has to pay an hughe % tax when he/she inherits , a married couple not . This is one example why they want it . For me a marriage is a formality , you receive permission from Mayor or rabbi , to live together . Nothing religious about it . Here if you don't marry at the rabbanut , your children can have problems [ that's why i also had a Orthodox "chuppa Kedusha" abroad , even i was not legally obliged ] Icognito [ anonymous ! ] is wrong . They parade in Jerusalem for their rights , in Tel Aviv it's more for fun . And that's why i , not gay at all , support them .

Tell me , is a "Ketuba" not a contract ? Does a Ketuba not mention the obligations from the man towards his wife ? So even a religious marriage is a contract . PS : i'm much more fluent in other languages , but you probably don't know them [ Hebrew is not amongst them yet ]

Did you see the images that Baruch posted of the 'Dyke' march in Boston? Do you care about children?

No , but i have googled "Dyke" and seen 175 images of the 2007 march . I have seen some small children . But why should i care about them ? have'nt they loving parents ? Are they maltreated ? Do you think that a lesbian couple [ dyke marches are for Lesbians ] can't educate a child ? Do you think that all hetero couples can educate their children ? And what about the [ sometimes very ] young religious mothers ? are they mature enough ?

Have you seen the hatefull faces of some charidi last year ? Are they representative of all the Charidim ? In the same way as those pictures posted by Baruch [ they are from an extremist site , not trusthworthy 100 % ] They are'nt representative of all people . Now , this Dyke march is not the Jerusalem pride march . Have a look at the pictures , the paraders are all normally dressed [ it was more than 30 degrees Celcius today in my Capital ] You can't compare those two , and by comparing you only show your biaised approach .

One thing I must admit is weird. I looked up gay and new testament on google cause I wanted to read the scriptural passages. That didn't work so well so I looked up homosexuality and NT. I was more able to find them there, however it's kind of odd that I should have to work to find them.