Opinion
Confirming kill immoral
Mickey Levy
Published: 10.07.08, 11:18
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61. confirming kill immoral?
Bear ,   zefat, israel   (07.10.08)
Mr. Levy, I'm glad you are a FORMER police chief. If you'd learn a bit of Torah, you'd see it says," if someone comes to kill you, kill him first!" Secondly The torah also talks about the "blood avenger" which is 100% legal. Last of all he killed 3 people and wounded 60 or more others. If he doesn't deserve to die than who does? the only thing immoral here is your convoluted mentality.
62. #31
observer   (07.10.08)
wonderful story !! I would mr levy to leave morals to the clergy, or perhaps go study theology and philosophy himself. I myself saw, pesach '05 in the haredi district of jerusalem, police officers on motorbikes charged down the main street, including two on each footpath, on their way to a break up a demo. The pedestrians were families out for an afternoon walk. Is that also part of your morals, sir?
63. confiming kill isto confirm that he is dead i
avrom ,   bet shemesh   (07.10.08)
so that there is no possibility of him recovering consciusness toprevent further killing therefore it is moral to confirm the kill and immoral not to confirm the kill
64. When I was in Nam, a confirmed kill meant if you were'nt
sure he was dead, ,   shoot the s o bitc#   (07.10.08)
65. Unbelievable!!
Joe ,   Georgia   (07.10.08)
How did an idiot like this become chief of police? Whose a_s did he kiss to get the job? He is a disgrace to the Jewish people!!!
66. mickey levy
Joe ,   afula   (07.10.08)
Mickey Levy, the former Police Commisioner shows that the biggest police man in the nation is a complete idiot and we shouldn't expect anything from the police. That is why traffic accidents, child abuse and breaking & entering are all at an all time high in Israel at epidemic proportions. The Police are the problem here not the citizens. IDIOT!!!
67. So he can revive and detonate a vest?
Daniel Ben Adam ,   SF usa   (07.10.08)
No thanks! The error was in not shooting the fiend before he crushed a Jewish Mother!! It doesn't take much strength to push a button. This is more liberal nonsense!
68. the US is by far and away the most dangerous place to be.
Jack ,   richmond, va, us   (07.11.08)
Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't live anywhere else for long. (I like civil rights.) But we have more gun violence, and more murders than any other society in the world barring none. We have more people in prison than any country in the world, including China. ( We tend to put bad people in jail for significantly longer than anyone else.) If you think the US is a peaceful place, you are dilusional. Sure the local cops and military aren't setting up check points on the streets, just in airports and court houses, and we don't let the government BOMB Us or our neighbors (Canada, Mexico, Indian Reservations) but we definitiely got more violence than any other society in the world. WE also have more freedom, and a much superior existence, but there is a hell of a lot of violence floating around. It is much more dangerous to be in LA or Richmond, VA then to be in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, even during open warfare, but that is the price to pay for a nation based on the ideal of individual choice. You dilude yourselves, however, if you think we are in a more peaceful, safe place. You must live in a very rural place. Please! Oh, and here in the US, it is also illegal for a police officer to confirm a kill of an apparently incompacitated criminal (or terrorist). That is not to say that some police wouldn't do it, but it is illegal. We prefer to try people in court then to merely summarily execute them in the field. That is the difference between being governed by the laws of the jungle as opposed to actual judicial proceedings. No stable society lets the police summarily execute criminals without a judicial process. (Of course, Israel probably shouldn't trade convicted murderers for corpses --or even the living. POWs should be returned only at the conclusion of the conflict or in an exchange of POWs. Corpses should be exchanged for corpses. Dealing with kidnappers only encourages more hostage taking, and is both foolish and against the rule of law. If the law puts someone in jail, they should stay until the law sets them free. Of course, it would also help if Israel had decent legal system in the territories so fewer innocent people would get caught up in the system, which simply rubberstamps the police/IDF without meaningful legal protection for the defendants resulting in invalid and untrustworthy decisions that makes it easier to trade them for hostages--since some of the detainees are hostages.)
69. Morals and Ethics are Destroying Zionism
Critical Observer ,   Planet Earth   (07.11.08)
The burgeoning wave of ethics and morality in Israel are the gravest threat to Zionism it has ever faced, and most certainly a big surprise. I personally once believed that Israel had lost sight of morals and ethics decades ago, but perhaps the war dry weather is causing the once formerly dormant seeds of humanity that have been buried deep in Israeli society to finally sprout. One can only hope, but do not hold your breath.
70. Not to confirm the kill?
David ,   Beit Shemesh   (07.11.08)
Jackie, grow up!! Do you live in the same Israel that I do? There is only one way to stop a terrorist and that is to confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that he or she is dead! Confirming the kill is not only moral but it is an imperative. As a religious person you should be aware of the Torah's command to kill the person who threatens to kill you! This is a piece of Torah ethics that we need to live by in order to survive in modern Israel.
71. That's why they left the engine running...
Ilan ,   Ariel   (07.11.08)
This discussion wouldn't be taking place if the police had turned off the engine and took away the keys. If there wasn't time to disarm the terrorist then he should have been shot again to remove all doubt. Either way the police screwed up and left it to a civilian to protect the public.
72. The biblical commandment...
Dar Zeelon ,   Israel   (07.11.08)
It says; 'He that comes to kill you, you must KILL him before he manages...' It specifically DOES NOT say you must 'neutralize' him, or that you must 'prevent him from performing his plot'... It simply says you must 'kill' him... ...That once a person plots to kill another, this person is no longer protected by the Sixth Commandment. So, this would make a confirmation of the death of this perpetrator, a just act, a positive act, a 'mitzvah'. The sixth commandment does say 'thou shall not kill'. but killing a would-be killer and even making sure that he's dead, by 'tapping' a few more rounds through his brain, or his heart; certainly does not fall under what this commandment disallows. This mitzvah must be performed to the fullest.
73. "under the impression he's neutralized"? Ha ha ha ha ha lol!
NewAllegiance ,   Chicago   (07.11.08)
What army did YOU serve in, boy? You know how many good soldiers die because they're 'under the impression' the guy they just shot is neutralized? and guess, what, ain't always so! You want to tell that to his wife? his kids? You KILL the enemy, and then you shoot him again for good measure. Or, don't, and watch your comrades die needlessly.
74. Jewish tradition
SL ,   New York   (07.11.08)
There is a large body of literature in Jewish law, starting with the biblical account of the 'pursuer', regarding how to deal with this sort of situation. The Talmud notes that "he who is merciful to the cruel will end up being cruel to the merciful." To show mercy to a mass murderer in the act of killing innocent civilians is something that does not stem from authentic Jewish thought. I suspect this is part of the same sort of coverup that happened in the Mercaz HaRav massacre months ago, wherein two police officers were too afraid to go inside, and instead 'secured the scene' outside the yeshiva, allowing a mass murderer to shoot his victims one by one. Those officers were not disciplined, let alone fired or brought up on charges. In a war situation, as discussed in Masechet Sotah (last few pages), even a bridegroom leaves his wedding chamber to fight the enemy to the death, and his bride also leaves the bridal chamber to help. Certainly, professionals charged with the protection of civilians have to be trained to use deadly force when it is needed to stop mass murderers.
75. Stop the outrageous behavior of the “Israeli” Arabs.
Robert Bernier ,   Tel Aviv   (07.12.08)
While the police could end the atmosphere of lawlessness by enforcing the laws already on the books, the government can take positive steps to reverse the trends toward radicalization of Israeli Arab society. It can pass regulations barring anti-Zionist propaganda in public school curricula and sanctioning the immediate firing of public school teachers who teach students to hate Israel. It can suspend government funding of municipalities and local councils that do not enforce building codes. It can set up well-paid community police comprised of loyal citizens. The government can prosecute Arab politicians and leaders who treat with the enemy for treason.
76. Should officers who beat citizens & perjure themselves
Albert ,   Sydney   (07.12.08)
be given positions of authority?
77. Israeli police COWARDS who do NOT protect citizens.
Sue ,   Carmiel   (07.12.08)
78. Jerusalem police are incompetent. See Merkaz HaRav & Bulldoz
Barak ,   Mevaseret   (07.12.08)
79. Do immoral chiefs breed immoral officers?
Samantha ,   Stevensville   (07.12.08)
80. Do Israeli citizens come LAST according to Levy?
Art ,   New York   (07.12.08)
81. What kind of officer is Levy?
Barb ,   Detroit   (07.12.08)
82. Sounds like you can fire the whole force in Jerusalem!
Jose ,   Seattle   (07.12.08)
83. Moral??
Emmett ,   New York, United Sta   (07.13.08)
Mickey Levy ii sway off base. He claism that th epolice officer Revital Nahum " took the difficult decisin to shoot the driver". Levy is not in touch wiht reality! why would it be a difficult decision to shoot a terrorist committing murder? Nahum should be commended for actions but if in fact it was a difficuot decision for her to take action she shoulod not be a police officer. As to morality and purity of arms I think Mickey and folks like him should down and study the Jeiwsh halachic and philisophica;l views vis a vis dealing with terrorists as opposed to the western worlds view. The same western world that borught us the holocaust, Vietnam, Darfur No doubt Levy was a good commander . But even good commandes can have immoral views on morality.
84. What evefr happened to "all's fair in love and war?"
Sigfried S. Kuhn ,   Aberdeen   (07.13.08)
The last war that was won by the West was WWII. I know that we won the battle of Desert Storm but we had to go back to eliminate Sadam Hussein so we really didn't win a war. Lately, the progressive moralists and revisionists are comparing the allies to the nazis. They claim that we bombed indiscriminately and deliberately targeted civilians. Some of these pious fools are demented enough to say that the Americans and the British, through their bombing campaign were as guilty as the nazis who gassed and slaughtered so many innocents in the death camps. Well, we had to win this war or else Hitler and the Japanese would have controlled the world and bombing cities was one way to defeat the nazis and the Japanese. This crazy morality also equates a terrorist bombing of a civilian bus with the accidental death of civilians who live in an area that is used by terrorists to fire on Israeli troops. Keeping terrorists alive only encourages more terrorism. Israeli captives are killed by the terrorists anyway and the international community and the nuts at Amnesty international etc only condemn Israel.
85. EVEN 13 YEAR OLD SCHOOL GIRLS
CHOSEN WORLD ,   TORONTO CANADA   (07.13.08)
The IDF does this to unarmed, 13 year old Arab school girls. So, isn't this the Israeli way? Who are you kidding?
86. Great satire - or a work of pure idiocy?
Barry ,   Des Moines, Iowa   (07.14.08)
Is this a work of satire? Or pure idiocy?
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