Activism
I am Israeli
Prof. Uzzi Ornan
Published: 08.09.08, 16:07
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1. The Good Professor Needs A Refresher
David ,   Jerusalem   (09.08.08)
The professor seems to have confused the western notion of statehood and its associated theories of citizenship with nationhood, which at its core is a loose kinship group along with its dependents and adopted strangers which share a common identity based on language, religion and cultural similitude. Jews have always been a nation and will always be a nation, be they unified under a common state or spread around the globe. This "Israelist" notion is highly statist and presumes to destroy Jewish identity and make us all "Good Romans." I have no desire to be such. The founders of Israel were deluded if they thought that is what they would get. A Jewish state is by definition a nation predicated on Jewish kinship bonds, Hebrew language, Judaism, and the trappings of Jewish culture that accompany them. To replace Jewish identity with Israeli identity is to destroy everything Israel was created to protect. You can have non-Jewish residents with full legal rights and not pretend this is Rome.
2. so by extrapolation...
(09.08.08)
there is no way that a Jew (living in the West Bank) can declare him/herself to be a Judaean or Samarian....right?
3. Israeli ID's no longer indicate 'nationality'
Jake   (09.08.08)
Newly issued Israeli ID's no longer indicate whether the bearer is a 'Jew' or an 'Arab', so what is this 'professor' snivelling about?
4. Sounds like another leftist scheme
Chaim ,   Canada   (09.08.08)
to undo the Zionist endeavour of Jewish sovereignty in its homeland of Eretz Israel.
5. #3 Jake- There is still a way
telavivit ,   Israel   (09.09.08)
u can differentiate a Jew from a Non Jew by looking at their ID. it is not written specifically but a Jew has something added in the ID.......
6. Out of date nonsense
Dov ,   Netanya   (09.09.08)
For some years now the ID cards and passports do not indicate the religion or race of a citizen. This Professor clearly has not been to the Misrad HaPnim for a long time. These nonsense articles should be checked before release. This is misinformation.
7. # 1
Yael ,   Jerusalem   (09.09.08)
Thank you. Well said.
8. No Israeli nationality. No Palesinian nationality.
Naftali Lavie   (09.09.08)
The Ministry of the Interior not only does not recognize Israeli nationality. It does not recognize Palestinian nationality. Zionism, as a colonial settler movement in Ottoman Palestine and British Mandate Palestine, sowed the seeds of a Hebrew Israeli nation. It also sowed the seeds of a Palestinian nation. The "nationality" and "religion" registries of the Ministry exist only to facilitate discrimination. The definition of the state as a Jewish State is the basis for discrimination, against all non-compliant Israelis and against all Palestinians. It's time to move into the modern world of democracy, with separation of religion from state and separation of ethnicity from state.
9. Look at your Israeli passport !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.09.08)
Unther nationality there is clearly written : Israeli .
10. #5, do you refer to date of birth in the Jewish calendar
Jake   (09.09.08)
in addition to the Western calendar?
11. #8, There was no such thing as 'Ottoman Palestine'.
Jake   (09.09.08)
No subdivision of the Ottoman Empire was at any time called 'Palestine', so who is interpolating and adding and revising history for the sake of political expediency? There was no entity called 'Palestine' until the British mandate period. Mandate Palestine was not a nation or nationality, but a League of Nations mandated territory, of which Transjordan was legally a component until 1946, when Tranjordan gained its independence as a Hashemite monarchy. The legally recognized concept of Jewish nationality did not become part of public law under Israeli statehood. It was the League of Nations that gave legal recognition to the Jewish National Home, and created the Palestine Mandate specifically so that this could be realized. The Mandate Document only permitted provisions of the Jewish National Home from being withheld or postponed in Transjordan. Accordingly, the British administration gave Transjordan autonomy and allowed a Hashemite emir to rule ON BEHALF of the British mandate, though it was formally part of Mandate Palestine until 1946. Transjordan retained Palestine Mandate currency, identity documents, and its emir reported directly to the Palestine High Commisioner in Jerusalem. The balance of Mandate Palestine territory, i.e. west of the Jordan, was, is, and will remain the Jewish National Home, unless the Jewish national government agrees to formally agrees to relinquish a part of it, and even that right is questionable.
12. Israelis with no tie to Yiddishkeit unfortunately disappear.
Jake ,   Selma   (09.09.08)
13. Uproar
Igor ,   Germany   (09.10.08)
"Imagine the uproar amongst the Jewish communities in the US or France, if the authorities tried to list "Jewish" or "Christian" in any official document." -- says the linguist. Well, at least in Germany the tax card (a document every employee is required to deposit with the employer and to submit to tax authorities) lists the religion. I have never heard of any uproar because of that.
14. Uproar
Ben ,   Monroe,USA   (09.10.08)
Can't debate law in Germany; perhaps that's why it was so easy for the Nazis to take power in 1933. Tax authorities here in USA have a social security ID which now is assigned to infants in first year of birth. But religious denomination, nope. Voting registration lists party, if any and home address and signature. That's all baby. Jobs require social security number, but religion is none of employer's business.
15. I don't live in a city, i live in a county
Matthew dickinson ,   gwinnett, usa   (09.10.08)
This is off-topic, but does anybody know what a New Jersey accent is? Specifically, do black people ever have New Jersey accents? I am asking the internet today these questions!! http://forums.project2612.org/showthread.php?t=317 http://forum.aboutnewjersey.com/showthread.php?p=7590#post7590 If you know answers, please email me at stalepie@hotmail.com. Thank you.
16. Israelis do not exist
Meir ,   Arad   (09.10.08)
....HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL In Israel either you are a Jew or part of a minority with civil and political rights. You become Israeli after you disconnect from your Jewish roots and become a goy that speaks hebrew.
17. Igor , Germany
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.10.08)
You have to add that this is because the different religions are subsidised at pro rata the number of people belonging to those religions . This was also the case in Holland till the 90's or so .
18. Meir , Arad . WRONG
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.10.08)
Religious Jews can be , and many are , very GOOD Israelis . I'm not talking about some of those fanatics who vegete in your town .
19. The Basque Goverment
Inyaki ,   Bilbao, Basque   (09.10.08)
I completely agree with this article. To write: Jewish, Arab, druze etc in an Israeli ID is odd, as odd as it was in Russia and South Africa etc. Now, our "beloved" Basque Goverment wants to introduce a simmilar thing as well: a citizenship and nationality ( if we become independent of Spain). One can be basque citizen, but have ...Spanish nationality, because to be Basque it is a question of blood. At least being jewish -one might convert. No way to be basque, if U're Spanish and do not have right surenames. Sounds Germany before WWII.
20. So if it lists gender then is it sexist?
Ilan ,   Ariel   (09.10.08)
The path from the sublime to the ridiculous is pretty short here. There is a reason to record nationality as long as there are rational consequences to the categorization. Arabs are not required to serve in the IDF so therefore that information needs to be recorded in order to be available to other government agencies. As for creating an "Israeli" label; does that imply that you are either exclusively 'Israeli' or 'Jewish' or 'Arab' or 'Christian' or 'Druze' ?
21. #5 ID cards
sarah ,   london   (09.10.08)
what is this something extra that is added?
22. #21: Date of birth in the Hebrew calendar
Jake   (09.10.08)
23. They want to ease distinction between all citizens
Ilan ,   Ariel   (09.10.08)
If one were to visit their site and see the three goals of the 'ani israeli' non-profit you would find that their goal is to remove all recording of religion or ethnic affiliation from all government records. This is in essence would change Israel to a "secular state of all it's citizens". This is in direct opposition of policy of Israel being a Jewish and democratic state.
24. #22 Jake- u got it ;)
telavivit ,   Israel   (09.10.08)
25. To number 5
Willy Billy ,   Israel   (09.10.08)
Eight *, ********
26. I am an olleh my nationality is listed as Israeli
zionist forever   (09.10.08)
I was not born in Israel but I made alliyah and my Israeli passport says NATIONALITY - ISRAELI If this is true that passports list nationality according to the country that the olleh came from then when was this law introduced?
27. #3 - is the date on your ID - Jewish or Roman calendar ?
redmike ,   Tel Aviv   (09.11.08)
mine is Jewish calendar. Mike
28. new topic...
David ,   USA   (09.11.08)
Next time, the author of this piece should write about how U.S. passports don't list the place of birth of Americans born in Jerusalem as "Israel."
29. Almost spot on
Ellis ,   Israel   (09.11.08)
Dear Sir Thank you for your article, it was almost spot on, i would just like to say that having received my new identity card i was very pleased to notice that the card-holders religion is no longer stated. a small step i know, but lets hope we keep moving forward.
30. Ani Israeli
confused Jew ,   Jerusalem   (09.11.08)
Instead of Ani Israeli, read Anti Israeli
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