Palestinians say shepherd shot to death by settlers
Ali Waked
Published: 28.09.08, 10:09
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24 Talkbacks for this article
1. On shabat?
Yerushalmi ,   Jerusalem   (09.28.08)
They expect us to believe that fanatical jews drive around, on shabat, looking for a random arab to shoot... Pallywood.
2. What was he doing in Gitit?
Curious   (09.28.08)
And was he armed?
3. When you dont know, blame settlers
mf ,   Israel   (09.28.08)
Any amateur crime novel reader can read 1. no evidence at site of body that its a crime scene 2. NO proof of killers identity 3. "Settlers"dont drive cars on shabbat Kodesh 4. Arabs/Beduin have plenty of internal quarrels and many many firearms in their possession.
4. A very dubious report
Millie ,   Israel   (09.28.08)
From of string of false Pali accusations.
5. Do not overestimate public
rh ,   Modiin Israel   (09.28.08)
Sarcasm is not understood by most people since most are stupid.
6. Proofs????
trumpeldor   (09.28.08)
7. Settlers
Rod ,   Fargo N.Dakota   (09.28.08)
Settlers started the 6 day war,setllers started the Yom Kippur war ,Haman was a secret settler,oh yes Rheinrd Heydrich was also settler.The newspapers , media and Govt look like fools and propagandists to anyone from a free country.When anything bad occurs in Israel blame the residents of Yesha.
8. Settlers
Even though I have nothing in common ideologically or religiously with the settlers, I still find this story somewhat hard to swallow. What would the motive for an unprovoked murder like this have been? Also, knowing the degree of anti-settler sentiment in Israel, the perpetrators couldn't possibly be so naive as to think this wouldn't have set off a firestorm of anger against them that might be used as a rationale to remove them from the West Bank.
9. Remove this title !!!!
YOEL ,   Ra'nana   (09.28.08)
Ynet became disgusting to me. How can you report those false accusations?? I'm still hungry after the reports concerning Ytshar, and I really think about stopping reading your BS article from Ali Waked. Journalism should be based on investigation, and NOT one-sided stories !!
10. Anon # 8
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.28.08)
OK , this story is hard to swallow for you and maybe for me . Let's wait . But do you remember baruch goldstein , who coolbloodly murdered around 30 Muslim worshippers ? Why should this not be a murder with the same origin , the extreme right guys ? I hope not . i would prefer it be done as an "honor" killing , or something as this
11. Accusations
Orde Wingate   (09.28.08)
Does the name Muhamad al Dura ring a bell? Same old plot, same old lies... Never ever do believe an arab 'eyewitnes'!
12. 10 - Goldstein's acts in 1994 are your only example
statistics ,   Tel Aviv   (09.28.08)
Given that the two most cited actions of religiously-affiliated murder were Yigal Amir in 1993 and Baruch Goldstein in 1994, and that both of those dates were OVER TWO DECADES AGO, I am curious as to why you bring it up as some sort of indication that it's likely Jews killed the shepherd. Statistically, the fact that you have no example other than Goldstein pursuant to 1994 suggests that it is UNLIKELY that the settlers were responsible. Just today, an Arab was convicted of trying to honor kill his sister earlier this year. In other words, the example of Muslim religiously-motivated murder of a Muslim is FAR more recent than that of Jewish religiously motivated murder of a Muslim.
13. Expect some tribal, honor killings to be blamed on pioneers
Debbie K   (09.28.08)
And expect the government to go along with such claims without examination of the evidence. Expect a heavy campaign of demonization of the pioneers. Why? Because the government is determined to proceed with expulsions. And there's more: Expect more terror attacks from E. Jerusalem Arabs (and b.t.w. noticed how absent or lukewarm was the police response to all three latest attacks in E. J., as if they didn't want the massacres to stop?) Why? To justify the division of the Holy City. The evil of some people in government has no limit.
14. Statistics , go to school !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.28.08)
Over two decades ago ? a decade is TEN years . And also , try to understand why and what is was writing . It was an answer to # 8 .
15. Debbie K , what do you know ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.28.08)
about the police's response to the latest three attacks ? How do you know it's a "honor" killing ? If tomorrow someone decide to drive his car in a group of people , nobody can prevent him from doing it . NOBODY . No police force , army or shin beth . And this has nothing to do with the Israeli governement . There is a small possibility , yes . It's by cutting off all the territories including East Yeroushalaim . But this would be a beginning of dividing our Capital . They can only prevent such and other acts if there is an organisation behind it , and they have information , or they are finding something by chance . Regarding this death boy , lets wait for the inquiry result . But there are NO objective witnesses , only claims by "palestinians" . You wrote : if they did'nt want the massacres to stop . You are'nt sane by writing this .
16. Charles, there is a big difference
Adam Eliyahu Berkowi ,   Bat Ayn   (09.28.08)
Yigal Amir was caught at the scene gun in hand. So was Baruch Goldstein. It is irresponsible and stupid to compare those two incidents to the pipe bomb targeting the professor or this killing of an arab, which not only lack a clear suspect, they lack facts. Your response to the other talkback was well taken however my major concern is that accusations of settler violence are almost always devoid of anything that could reasonably be considered evidence. And the reporting of these incidents is so insulting to any intelligent reader it should be written in crayon. However these stories and accusations serve a purpose. They fan the flames of settler hatred. There are too many jews sitting in jail based on nothing more than arab claims that often uncorroborated by basic facts, or even when the arabs' testimony is self-conflicting. Criminal politicians continue on in their self-serving agendas because of these stories. Left wing, please think befor eyou hate. There was only 1 yigal amir (way too many), and one baruch goldstein. How many suicide bombers/tractor drivers have there been?
17. Adam # 16
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.28.08)
The title of this article : palestinians say that settlers ......You understand Yiddish ? "hobben ze gezugd" they said it , so what ? As i wrote elsewhere , let's await the results of police inquiry . I do not compareany of those acts , reread my tb's , see at what they were answering please . I did'nt say that there are settlers involved , it's one of the possibilities , the other being arabs who did it .
18. B' Tselem will put it on their long list!!!!!
rachel ,   usa   (09.28.08)
19. Charles, spare me your usual personal attacks
Debbie K   (09.28.08)
Personal opinions about talkbackers are irrelevant. Let's express our arguments, good or bad, but let's not attack people personally. I'd like to point out what others have noticed already. - All Jerusalem attacks happened in tandem with heavy negotiations for the surrender of E. Jerusalem. Coincidence??? I don't think so. And then we have the PM coming out with very convenient but unconvincing statements saying that since there's such a high Arab population in E. Jerusalem, it's safer for Israelis to simply surrender that part of the city to the Arabs. (BTW, I would have asked the PM why not surrender other cities heavily populated by Arabs as well, such as Haifa, if that is his criterion for abandoning Jewish territory.) - On all reports of recent Jerusalem terror attacks we see common themes. One of them is that the police did not - or hardly - reacted to the rampages. During the attack on the Yeshiva the police were directing traffic away from the scene but did not go in to stop the killings. On all those attacks it was civilians who stopped the carnage. The police were trying not to hurt the attacker on the first tractor attack, remember? They did not want to shoot. When you put all the pieces together, including the attitude of the Police and the IDF in Judea and Samaria, all that makes me very suspicious . There are times when Police/IDF don't seem to be an Israeli but a pro-PA force. They are under orders, I believe, to allow the Arabs to harm pioneers so as to encourage them to leave, and to attack Jerusalemites to convince them that to live with Arabs in the city is not good for their safety. All these attacks mesh well together with plans by the government to divide Jerusalem, to expel Jews from Jewdea and Samaria, and to sign this surrender without even the appearance of getting something in return. They think that Arab acts of violence will work just as well in order to convince Jews to support the government's agenda. And in E. Jerusalem, the decision is all made, except on paper, that Jews will have to divide the Holy City. Arab violence, in this case, serves the government to prove that division is the only way to protect the Jews of Jerusalem.
20. Debbie , Yeroushalaim , is , we like it or not
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.28.08)
divided . De facto . Jews are'nt going in some Eastern parts of our Capital . My son in law , who knows Yeroushalaim very well , conducted tours , FORBADE me to go there unaccompagnied , i have no weapon Regarding those attacks , you can always find a connection to some talks . Police , i don't think you are right , they are fullfilling their job in the best way they can . This police on the first bulldozer attack was a young one i think , without much experience . You have to be "hard" to kill someone . But to say they are working in order to have more massacres as you did , you have'nt to be sane , sorry but no normal person will say such a non sense .
21. Debbie , Yeroushalaim is divided !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.28.08)
Jews are'nt going everywhere in our Capital Maybe my precedent TB will not be published As i wrote in it , my son in law FORBADE me to go to the whole of the Old city , i had'nt any weapon . Only from Sha'ar Yafo , David street [ i think ] , and then to the right in direction of the Jewish quarter . This was more than 10 years ago . Nothing to do with the actual governement .
22. unprovoked murder is deterrence
religious settler   (09.28.08)
every sin is pardoned by atonement and Yom Kippur is coming so soon.
23. Charles, Jerusalem is divided not because of the Arabs
Debbie K   (09.28.08)
but because the government has already surrendered E. Jerusalem. The people of Israel have not surrendered it - the government has. And that's the problem. If the government represented the majority of Israelis, they would do what needs to be done to turn ALL of Jerusalem into a proper Israeli capital. They would open up the Temple Mount to any Jew who wishes to pray there because it's THEIR country. They would clear out all the illegal Arab housing that is spreading in the area. Particularly property that legally belong to Jews and now it's off limits to them. There's a famous case of a Jew whose family has owned a property in E.J. for decades but he's unable to obtain police help in dislodging squatters. The courts say it's his house. The police refuse to help him. Coincidence? So back to my point: there are no coincidences in Israel. All of the above and much more is part of a much bigger picture of betrayal of the Jewish people, a betrayal that ought to shame those who perpetrate it and those who refuse to act to stop it. And speaking of insanity, the greatest insanity of all is the persistence of the left to carry out the same policy of surrender that they used in Gaza again and again, expecting different results. They surrendered Gaza and got terror back. Did they learn anything? Nope. They want to do it in an even greater scale in Judea and Samaria. And give up sovereignty of East Jerusalem. And since they're at it, why not give up a corridor between Ramallah and Gaza so that the new state can be a "viable" state. That this will split Israel in two is only a marginal issue, right? Nothing to worry about.
24. Debbnie , a question
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (09.29.08)
What will you do with the 200,000 or so Jerusalem arabs who don't want to live unther Israeli governement ? Give a serious answer , don't evade it . I asked this also to the Israeli Ambassador in my country of origin many years ago . "do you have a solution ? " was his answer . The problem here , there is NO solution that can satisfy both sides . It's always very dangerous to mix politics with religious fanatism . I'm certainly as you in favor to maintain a united Yeroushalaim as Israel's Capital , read my tb's on trhis subject . But i don't think that's possible .
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