All I am saying is that although I agree with the content of Andrew's statement, the fact that the categorical call to leave the stetl, avoid the next pogrom, learn of self-reliance and nationality, and stop being the "wondering Jew" comes from someone residing in Miami, FL, is a touch hypocritical. It's not JUST about safety. After all, if the idea was for the Jews to be safe, the surest way to do so would be to completely assimilate. The idea of Israel was and is "to live as Jews in our land", where if we, as Jews, are attacked, we, as Jews, protect ourselves. Europe was quite safe for for Jews for the 20 years preceeding the mid-1930s, much safer than Palestine. But if I were given a choice, in 1938, between Warsaw and Jerusalem, I would choose the latter knowing what I know now. Wouldn't you? As the background for this answer, I spent the first half of my life in Russia and the second between Chicago and Tel Aviv. So I am by no means against the US. I love it and spent a good chunk of my adolescence there. But it's no Israel. BTW, most of American Jews I know say their nationality is American and their religion is Jewish. And the anti-Jewish violence in Israel you mention is less prevalent probabilistically speaking than random, anti-everyone violence in the US.

the nazis were descended from "conservative jews" so were the leaders of USSR and the gulags and the KGB. "conservative jews" are udated versian of early christians - destroying the torah and the human connection for God in order to be more animal-like. to indulge in animal passions and emotions. "conservative jews" are "deform jews" are bad jews and the ancestors of the leftists that are destroying the west. May your venom kill only yours.

I am not surprised that former Russian olim have found out it is easier to be a Jew in your place of birth than in Israel. I have a similar experience as an anglo saxon oleh that my religious observance as a Jew here has diminished. I blame a sick Israeli society together with the variety of religious orthodox cults who are unfriendly bigots and racists. Luckily the Russians including myself have two passports.

Everyone who came to Israel and had "luck" to be traditionally married, divorced, bury the beloved once or celebrating bar-mitzva have had the disgusting touch with the ultraortodox corrupted, shameful and dirty monsters running the Rabbinate, Hevrat kadisha and some municipalities (i.e. capital city Jerusalem). This is definitely didn't work in favor of Judaism.

Actually, most of us only have one passport - the Israeli one.

expected of a "court" Jew in a dictatorship. My neighbor related to me that on his very first trip on the Moscow Metro as a tourist (wearing a kippa )he was jeered by several people and felt so uncomfortable that he got off the train...so much for today's Russia...

What a rarity.

William, you represent the absolute worst orthodoxy has to offer. It is those such as yourself who cause the discord so common in Judaism. It's not ugly Israel, it's ugly orthodoxy running off at the mouth once again. I won't lower myself to your level. Hatred in the name of Torah is even more sickening than anti-semitism. May you live to 120. It will take that long for you to learn what Judaism really means.

Isn't living in Israel suppose to increase faith and spirituality? Bad, bad Japeth!

there were two russian revolutions the first terminally flawed in its militarism but potentially messianic the second a catastrophe that has created a world in danger of total destruction . The extremist led putsch has created the seeds of total global destruction .

Europe was safe for Jews during the 20 years before the mid 30 . You wrote . Yes , if for you Ukraine and Russia are'nt part of Europe . And you forget that Walter Rathenau was assassinated by antisemites in 1922 . And what about the reproaches made that the Jews were responsible for the collapse of economy after 1929 ?

If the ultra orthodox were'nt trying to impose their lifestyle on everyone here , many Jews would certainly not distance themselve from religion .

It's exactly because of u and people like u who call Russian Jews names that they flee Israel. They wouldn't if u didn't call them schizophrenics, whores, mafia, etc.

Charles - point taken (to a degree). For the 15 years preceding the Great Patriotic War which started with the invasion of Russia in June 1941 the level of antisemitism in the Soviet Union was probably at worst on par with that in the West. Jews were persecuted as intellectuals, as opposition to the governments, but not so much as Jews. Though, yes, the Jewish religious observances were frowned upon and curtailed, so were all other religious observances at that time (Christian, Muslim, etc.). You are right about the other things. My point, though, with which I am sure you will agree, was that one cannot equate the opportunity for national self-realization for Jews in Israel with that in the States or any other country. To do so is laughable. And it is as much about safety as it is about dignity and pride as members of the Jewish people and citizens of Israel, not just subscribers to the doctrines of Judaism merely wishing to be in Jerusalem next year.

Meni, you are so right!

"The grim reality is that many of the Jews who came to Israel have lost their grip on faith'. Are they *worse* off than in Russia. Those who *had* grip on faith have lost faith? And let us ask the RAbbi: How many thousands has he brought to the faith? "Lazar recalled how, when he was visiting a Russian city, a local Jew asked him if he should immigrate to Israel. Lazar said he told the man that the Torah "is more interested in how we are as Jews than where we reside. So ask yourself - where can you maintain yourself spiritually? You mustn't immigrate when you are confused and insecure." Does that mean that if the fellow is more likely to marry a non jewess in russia than in israel that it is better for the fellow stay in russia an assimilate? In addition: what are the real numbers of jews who returned to judaism when staying in russia an what are the real numbers of returnees who made aliya?

must be more persecutions of Jews in Russia than in Israel, although a lot of Jews are persecuted in Israel for being religious.

1919 : pogroms all over Russia 1919 : 685 pogroms in the Ukraine 1920 : 142 Do you think that those antisemitic feelings disappeared as by a magic touch ? Some historians write that anti intellectual , opposition and such were more directed at Jews . You probably know that i'm [ still ] Ole chadash . For me making Alyah was not for "next Year in Jerusalem' but to be at HOME .

Can you explain me, lieber french man, what is true God in your opinion?