Jewish Scene  More Jewish Scene  GA 2008
Livni: Israel not a rabbis' monopoly
Ronen Medzini
Published: 19.11.08, 13:31
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
48 Talkbacks for this article
1. Livni's got it
Aharon   (11.19.08)
What I'm about to say is a sad reflection on the state of our political leadership, by Ms. Livni has got it. She's returned to the basics: a Jewish nation-state, home of the Jewish people, where Jews enjoy a clear and unchallenged majority and can practice their traditions to whatever extent they please. This was Zionism as it originally was intended, and I'm glad to see that someone is returning to the basics instead of all these bizarre post-Zionist ideas we see both on the left and on the right of the political spectrum today. Let's translate some of Livni's comments from "politician speak" to English: "The Israeli interest is to lead to a situation of two states for two people. And we are not just talking about two independent democracies, but about two different nation-states. " - Translation: Israeli-Arabs will not remain Israeli citizens in any peace deal with the Palestinians. "Israel is a Jewish state, and the other state will serve as a complete solution for all the Arab demands, including the right of return. There will be no return into Israel," - Translation: Israeli Arabs will be traded out, and we have no intention of jeopradizing the Jewish majority by accepting refugees. "Peace is not just a piece of paper. When we face the international community we must clarify that the interest of a protected Israel with complete security will be maintained, not just on the papers of the agreement. " - Translation: Peace will be made on Israel's terms, and not imposed by Obama. Ladies and gentlemen, I've found my candidate for the next election. Undoubtedly she will not keep all her promises - but then, what policitian does?
2. Livni is right
Matityahu ,   Slovenia   (11.19.08)
Israel is a leftist monopoly.
3. Its so sad how out of touch she is with her Jewish soul.
LEE ,   NY, USA   (11.19.08)
Ki me'Tzion tetze Torah u'dvar Hashem me'Yerushalayim.... Meanwhile, Herzlian Secular Tzionism is doing everything it can to stomp on the Torah and divide Yerushalayim... When the Rabbis said "let the Mashiach come, but let us not be around to see it" they probably had the tragedy of these painful 'leaders' in mind. Our "nation-state" was given to us only for the sake of the Torah. That's why its giving preceeded the giving of the Land. Its on its basis that our Nation stands and will ultimately survive. Even if Tzippy, Peres, Ehuds & Co. don't like it.
4. The Election will Stop
Joe Cone ,   CANADA   (11.19.08)
The Election will Stop Livni and Peres and their Bad Appeasement Deals.
5. Israel is not the Leftists monopoly!
Jay ,   Israel   (11.19.08)
Clearly the leftists ploy is too demonize the settlers just prior to elections, to try and make people think the settlers are the reason there is no peace with the bogus Palastinians! Olmert did exactly the same thing last election! The Kadima crooks ignore the hard facts that Fatah and Hamass dont want peace, and the fact that the PA Charter which clearly calls for Israels destruction, has not been changed since it was created! What is even more criminal is the fact that these settlers have all the documentation and recorded conversations to prove that they are the legal owners. What the government is doing is totally illegal and completely against all the laws of democracy!
6. Livni's blah, blah, blah.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (11.19.08)
Hardly worth reporting on, she as usual sticks with vague rhetoric, slogans, & platitudes. Personally, I like specifics & details. Like how does she justify hanging around Olmert for three years? Just what exactly are you talking about, or worst, have you agreed upon, with Abbas in your secret negotiations? Did you agree to divide Jerusalem? You agree with ceding the Golan to Syria? If you don't, why are you in favour of negotiations with Syria? What specifically is your plan for Gaza? Aside from making speeches, that is. How many Jews do you plan on expelling from their homes to create your terrorist Palestinian state? And, how will we handle a few hundred thousand Jewish refugees when we couldn't take care of 8,000 expelled from Gaza? Explain again how res. 1701 was such a success - I could use a good laugh this morning.
7. Stupid Zippi Just Blew It.
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (11.19.08)
"Israel is not a monopoly of rabbis" If you want a "Jewish state" you need someone to teach you want "Jewish" means. It certainly isn't falafel and matbucha. Jewish is Torah observance. And who are the teachers of "Jewish"? Rabbis! Dismissing our teachers, scholars and rabbis from leadership of the "Jewish" state is as absurd as denying doctors a say in the operating room.
8. Amen, Tzipi!
Israel   (11.19.08)
9. Israel is not "Livni's" monoploy
Joe ,   Israel   (11.19.08)
10. Livni's speach
Naomi ,   Phila USA   (11.19.08)
Ms Livni is the true hope of the Jews not just in Israel but throughout the world. She is "all that",
11. #1 Aharon - What are you dreaming about?
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (11.19.08)
How did you manage to read all that into Livni's usual vague rhetoric? Livni as well as most of our politicians do their best to NOT say anything. They are very adept at double-talk. And if saying something is absolutely unavoidable, be sure it is forgotten within minutes - & they probably will do exactly the opposite of what they say. This is a political strategy - allowing us to read unto a blank page what we want to see. See how well it worked for Obama. McCain wasn't much better I have to admit. How can you be so naive as to think this is Livni's program?
12. There is no such thing as "complete security."
Rich ,   Toroto, Canada   (11.19.08)
And there is no real democracy in Israel. Most of the members in the Knesset are not elected by the people. There needs to be a change of the political system and accountability in government.
13. Amen Sister Livni
Avi ,   Ramat Gan   (11.19.08)
Exactly these people behave as if they live in a jewish version of Iran. Israel is a democratic country that recognizes all jews of all origins and all levels of religious observance or not at all. We have a system of civil law in Israel and for those dim wits amongst us we are not living in a state run according to halacha.
14. #3 Lee So sad to see you prefer to live in NY and not Israel
Avi ,   Ramat HaSharon   (11.19.08)
Hypocrite !
15. this is one very confused woman
Rami   (11.19.08)
trying to keep it together in her mind, which is getting more confused by the day.
16. To Avi #14
Rami ,   London/Tel Aviv   (11.19.08)
Actually, Avi, it's verbal abusers like you who are one of the main reasons for there being so many yordim. Normal people don't wish to live in an environment of bullying.
17. goal to be a jewish democratic state ?
yahn goodey   (11.19.08)
well at least she told the truth in this part of her speech. in reality israel presently is not a democratic state. our political and religious leaders and judges run the country under their own dictatorships usually only co-operating with each other when outside threats to survival of all appear immediate but as our history shows quite often leaving it too late. our present collection of "peace process" dictators appear to be blind to the threats of our enemies as they prepare for another war to exterminate us all.
18. Asefa lekha shiviim zkenim...
Yerushalmi ,   Jerusalem   (11.19.08)
Said G-d to Moshe, and that makes judaism a rabbinical monopoly. If state of israel wants to totaly divorce itself from judaism, that's up to the voters. But, they can't expect torah jews to be loyal to such state.
19. Livni defintion of complete israeli
alexi   (11.19.08)
I agree with livni's definition of an israeli complete, speaks hebrew, has a job and pays taxes and has done his miltary service completely. By this definition, Olmert's boys ariel and shaul are not israelis as one ran to France to avoid military service, and the other Shaul ran to New York to evade reserve duty. its not surprising. Ehud the father never did a day of combat himself. What he did do according to t he police is double billed israeli charities for his vacations with aliza and the kids in europe, took cash from talansky for favors, granted favors to businesses of friends while he was ministry of industry and possibly got a break on his house for favors. So, Ehud is not an israeli and certainly not Aliza. So a non israeli ehud is deciding what is best for israel in his remainining 3 months. Mazzuzz shoiuld wake up and tell olmert no more moves. But he is so insecure that he is afraid to say NO NEW political moves. Say it you gutless attorney general.
20. #16 Dear Rami In London
Avi ,   Ramat Gan   (11.19.08)
please dont forget to invite me to your 5th birthday party next year!
21. #18 Yerushalami, news flash buddy
Avi ,   Ramat Gan   (11.19.08)
If Torah Jews can not be loyal to the state then they are free to leave. Modern day Israel was not founded to be a religious state run according to halacha but a democratic state that incorporates all jews of all origins and religious observance or not at all. Its called democracy and for those who want to live in a religious dictatorship should move to Iran.
22. Rambling talk with no focus it seems
Ilan ,   Ariel   (11.19.08)
Tzippi wants to be more than a normal politician but can't focus on anything for more than few moments. Government is run the same way unfortunately. An impulse buyer in the market place of ideas.
23. #14 Avi and every other Israeli who thinks we are hypocrites
Zev ,   USA   (11.19.08)
Avi, I too live in New York but not because I prefer it, but because as a jew I don't understand the idiotic concept of "Israeli Arabs" nor do I want to live with Israeli Arabs when I come to Israel. I don't want and I don't understand "land for peace", nor do I want to understand it. I don't want to fight and win wars and reclaim my Jewish heritage, my land only to give it back to murderers and killers. Jewish lives, soldiers are more valuebal than any piece of paper and their memories should not be dishonored in this way. I don't want to live in a state that releases murderes of Jewish children like Kuntar for dead Jewish bodies. I want to live in a Jewish state with other Jews not with Israeli Arabs or Arab Israelis because they certainly don't want to live with us, you've cleansed Gaza of Jews for them to have their state as proof. I don't want to live in an idiotic democrazy where we as a peaple face a danger of being outvoted in our own land by the Arabs. I don't want to get sick to my stomach and lose my sanity by seeing Jewish leaders begging for Arab votes and if this is not happening in Israel yet, it soon will. I love the land of Israel and it's my greatest desire to live in it and it's very close to my heart, but I am not a lemming. You all say Iran is crazy and Ahmadinijad is crazy, but they got the whole world eating out of their hand with the greatest superpowers offering them all kind of economic packages to be nice. This is what a Jewish state should be like.
24. Tzipi's speech
Avi   (11.19.08)
Firstly, she is addressing an international audience, so she is going to reach out to as many different kinds of Jews as possible. Face it, not all Jews are Orthodox, and even less so in North America. That is her audience. Secondly, I am afraid that she is going to continue pushing for a 2 state solution. She says it quite clearly in the article. No mention is made as to what will happen to the settlement blocks already in place in Shomron and Judea. What would happen to Ariel, Ma'ale Adumim, and Gush Etzion? Putting in a 2 state solution at the expense of these thousands of Jews already in the area is not going to help Kadima win any votes. So she wants to pursue peace, fine. But the solution should not divide Jerusalem or otherwise cause Israel to regress by giving lands that its sons worked so hard to fight for. Israel must not forget about even its recent history, let alone ancient times.
25. How to lose friends and alienate people :)
eddie ,   London UK   (11.19.08)
26. Livni you go girl!!
MOI ,   TA   (11.19.08)
SEPARATE STATE AND RELIGION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
27. Livni scolds Rabbis
mark ,   canada   (11.19.08)
Israelis a nation state. It is not a religious state, that exist soley by the Rabbis, for the Rabbis. If that would be the case, Israel would now be by the Arabs and for the Arabs. Maybe that is what the Orthies want. Then they could moan and groan that they are being oppressed and murdered. And, who wants that? God looks after those who look after themselves, and others, in love and faith towards God and man. It is a sin against God and your fellow man not to defend freedom and in effect ....democracy. Livni is right. Tzippi is right on, man!!!!!
28. A Faux State for a faux people
Mikesailor ,   Miami, FL   (11.19.08)
If the consequences weren't so serious, the illogic of Tzipi's remarks would be funny. The problem of Israel is that it cannot figure out what it wants to be. If a 'Jewish' state, who gets to determine what that entails. Is it the rabbi's? The so-called left-wingers? The settlers? Israel cannot determine its own borders or create a constitution. Why? Whose law prevails, secular or religious? Israel has become defined by fear of the other: Arabs, Iranians, Lebanese, Europeans, the outside goy of all stripes and beliefs. But what exactly does Israel stand for except being a somewhat amorphous 'Jewish' State? Frankly, a 'Jewish democracy' is as much a contradiction in terms as an 'Islamic state' or a 'Christian state'. None actually work because religion, by its very nature, is both exclusive and not amenable to compromise. So, what 'state' are you really talking about?
29. Livni's shared identity
Debra ,   UK   (11.19.08)
Livni's perspective lacks depth; a shared identity implies shared concepts and values, which have their source in the Mosaic Law. These universal values are the monopoly of truth she has to respect, represent and uphold .Truth is the foundation of peace.
30. Livni speaks of advancing Jewish education, tradition...
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (11.19.08)
... and history. Yet the majority of Israelis get little substantive Jewish education, and this are notably ignorant of Jewish tradition and history. We can thank the Ministry of Education, headed by the likes of Tamir, and the Jewish Agency for this state of affairs.
Next talkbacks
Back to article