who are we kidding .they choose their school courses. secular knowledge according to them is bad . call a spade a spade

I work 2 jobs, and my wife works 1, so that we can send out children to a private school with an American curriculum. Our kids went to secular public schools for a while, but my wife and I found that their curriculum, and the teaching quality, was so poor compared to the education we received in New York's public schools that we felt we had to pull them out. It's not enough to know the basics, but the Israeli schools don't even teach those well. Kids needs a broad (and mandatory!) knowledge of world history, literature, proper grammar and writing techniques, mathematics, the sciences, etc. Kids receive none of this even in the "good " Israeli schools, and society is going to pay for it. Indeed, we already see that society is paying for it in myriad ways, from draft dodging to the poor behavior displayed by Israeli kids, teens, and young adults. It is shameful that Israeli students do so poorly compared to students from other nations in science and math, particularly since Israel depends almost entirely on its high-tech sector for job creation and economic growth. Tzipi Livni, regardless of what you think of her politically, was right when she said that Israel's success is the product of past generations' educational advances, which have since disappeared. If we don't change this soon, Israeli Jews are going to continue to be the world's "dumb Jews," since Jews in every other Western country receive far better educations. This is unacceptable in the Jewish State.

1. American colleges are more flexible in accepting alternatives to "normal" schools, making it possible for a product of hareidi schools to leverage the academic skills from yeshiva to gain admission to university. At most it takes a little independent study. 2. America is big on distance education and education, and has always considered it "unAmerican" to restrict access to someone because of their lack of formal training. No psychometric babble in the US. 3. In America, there is no conscription, and when there was, Hareidim were rejected as being too hard to integrate, whereas in Israel, it is impossible for Hareidim to enter the mainstream without being drafted into a secular army, many of whose soldiers are anti-Hareidi.

(IsraelNN.com) Three groups of hareidi-religious young men from Jerusalem earned record scores on the pre-university psychometric exam recently. The groups' success proved that the success of a 30-man group of hareidi-religious students earlier in the year was not a one-time phenomenon. The first group, which scored overwhelmingly over the national average in the summer, made national news. The students hailed from extra-governmental schools where English is not taught and mathematics is taught on a relatively basic level. Their success came shortly after the government decided to continue funding to hareidi-religious high schools that do not teach a “core program” of math, English and science. Twelve percent of students in one of the latest groups scored higher than 700, putting them in the top five percent nationwide. The average score in that group was 575, 40 points higher than the national average. None of the students had taken the test in the past. In another group, 15 percent scored higher than 700, and 45 percent scored above 610. Nationwide, approximately 27 percent of students score higher than 610. The hareidi-religious students took the test after a four-month crash course designed for those taking the psychometric exam. The course was designed by EZ Way, and geared towards students with very little background in English or math, the two subjects that, along with Hebrew, are tested on the psychometric test. "The students began the course with an average score of 400 [on practice exams—ed.], but improved so much that they deviated from the national scale—80 percent were above the national average,” said EZ Way head, attorney Ehud Zeltner. In four months, the students succeeded in overtaking their counterparts who learned English throughout their school years, Zeltner said. Zeltner credited the students' strong grasp of Hebrew and their skill in linguistic analysis, gained by studying Talmud, for their success. “The argument has always been that the hareidi-religious system is detrimental to its graduates' chance to integrate into the workplace, but it turns out that the ability to memorize and the endless learning of yeshiva students helps them, and gives them learning skills in other fields as well,” he said. Most of the students in Zeltner's courses are older than the average psychometric exam test-taker. They are usually married with children, and most plan to go on to study engineering or programming in university in order to support their families. by Maayana Miskin, IsraelNationalNews.com

Israel has always depended on a talented, highly educated cohort arriving from outside, helping turn out local talent. Israel's elite institutions are still replete with such foreign talent. Unfortunately, Israel has been unable to turn the country into the intellectual powerhouse it could be. It's a matter, I think, of tolerating low standards, and it applies in both the secular and haredi sectors. Jacob Marcus' "The Jew in the Medieval World" outlines the course of study for serious students in the 12th century Muslim world. It included Torah, Mishna/Talmud and Hebrew Grammer, but it also included Poetry, Philosophic Studies, Mathematics, Optics and Astronomy, Music, Natural Sciences and Medicine, and more. Yet the haredim complain about "core subjects"! The secular sector, too, has abandoned any pretense at high standards. I went to public schools in Florida years ago, and the advanced classes were filled with Jews whose parents expected their children to achieve. Why does Israel expect any less?

http://yaadut.co.cc/ Good luck!

LOL. They are too busy studying torah to be bothered about anything else.

"they must at the same time be prepared to enable their child the option of a professional career, by saving money for academic studies." Tali is right in this - let them learn gemara when they are young, then send them to learn a profession.

from life and reality.

How strange they seem very capable of adding up their social security checks that the Israeli tax payer provides them.

What social security checks? Avi wake up! Hareidim are receiving next to nothing. They certainly arent learing Torah for the financial benefits. A family with no other income than a kollel stipend (currently 665 nis - $150) from the Ministry of Religious Affairs, and child benefit - exactly the same amounts per kid as everyone else is getting - hardly anything, would surely starve.

We're turning out a nation of boors. It isn't the kids, or the teachers or even the lack of money. Something is very wrong within the ministry. There is no money for teachers, and classroom space but tons of money to develop new theories and pay bureaucrats.

that they are free to make, they must be given the freedom to be free in their own land. BUT they must not be left behind in term sof education and advancement. But also dont under estimate their education. Jewish education is the finest the world have. Everything that the world has today evolved from Jewishness. You touch, feel, smell, listen everything has a touch of Hashem. These haridei are a very special people to me, though I hate certain things they do and dont do, but that is their torah way of life. No one can question them becaus ethey have a lot to question us of our actions too. Here in singapore we have a big task to take the local Islamic schools. And they are very co-operative and this is the beauty of muslims in Singapore. They are open to changes and move along nation building and every aspects of developments. I hope you bring the harideis communities slowly with you to betterment but dont try to change their identities. Multi- culturism is to be celebrated not to be shamed of. ben singapore.

I lived in Israel for about 3 years, have a Ph.D., have teaching experience, and would love to join a haredi community. I would also love to teach haredi children basic math, English, science, typing, computer skills, etc. However, the haredi community will probably not accept me or teach me how to live with them. I am afraid they view my secular background as a threat. I might "pollute" the haredi community in the process of learning to fit in with them. What do you suggest? Many of us would like to help or join a haredi community but we feel locked out.

Your Knowledge would pollute them , they think . And , some of your pupils could begin to think about becoming secular . Your Ph.D , no value , your teaching experience ? who need it . You are'nt a Tora scholar , that's it .

I have lived the secular life all my life. It's not that great. I would try to help teach haredi children how to make a living running a small business, accounting, home repair, or other honorable occupation to help support their families and their schools. However, I would encourage them to remain haredi. The secular world leaves much to be desired. Besides, Hitler wins if the haredi give up their communities and lifestyles.

You'll better prepare them to university where Jews were always great and maybe have some renowned scientist amongst your ex puppils . This is something you could be proud of . It's not the charidim who will make hitler loose . It's the State of Israel and the rebirth of Jewish communities in Germany .

tradition is most important of all.the ways of the west arent important but should serve as a warning to stay clear of them.oh and Tali you are too gorgeous i wish u were mine.