Hadash leader: Elections are between enlightened, conservative
Sharon Roffe-Ofir
Published: 05.12.08, 14:02
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2. hadash better than meretz for post sionist
elie   (12.05.08)
the lone difference more arabs than post jews
3. There will be no bi-national state.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (12.05.08)
You want Arab symbols, go to Jordan, go to Saudi Arabia. Go anywhere, but not here. Sorry.
4. Terry, you are so hateful and people like you eventually
Palestinian   (12.05.08)
are the one who will have to leave. Arabs are not leaving... This is an Arabian land since the ancient days of the Canaanites. No one can tell us to leave.
5. Fascinating idealist.
Avinoam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.05.08)
In a better world I would agree with everything Auda says. I would happily live in a Jewish-Arab state, if I believed that this solution was stable. It is not. Unfortunately not everyone is as enlightened as Auda. He should be aware that many of his brethren do seek to oppress or expel the Jews or worse. The only possible solution is a secularly democratic state with underlying Jewish identity. I don't think a demographic war should be waged. What should happen is that the state write a constitution, mostly secular/multi-cultural, with one important addendum, that Israel is by definition a sanctuary for the Jewish people. This means easy immigration and support of Jewish issues internationally. Nothing more than that however. Jews should not be given better status than Arab citizens. The word citizen here is vital. My major criticism of Arab MKs is their lack of distinction between Palestinians and Arab Israelis. For me there is a huge difference. I have a social contract with Arab Israelis. In my eyes they are equal to any other citizen. I hold no such social contract with foreigners. "Abas Zkoor thinks we're not allowed to talk about the Palestinians' issues,.." Certainly all MKs may talk about anything. The problem is when preference is given to a Palestinian agenda that clearly violates our statehood. There is a conflict of interests here, and it is unethical for MKs to speak against the same country they work for in the same words as those that seek to destroy it. I would not vote for Auda myself, as he does not represent my interests. However I would be happy to see many Arab Israelis vote for him. Other parties either do not represent their interests or are blatantly anti-Israeli.
m   (12.05.08)
All very nice until they get the upper hand, than prepare to jump into th sea. Terry I'm with you!
7. I believe in strict reciprocity.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (12.05.08)
Reciprocity is fair, balanced. No one should expect to get more than they give. In that spirit of reciprocity & fairness, I would like to see the Arabs in Israel have exactly the same rights as we have in Arab states. Maybe we should base it on the Hamas Charter & if that's too radical, we could just as well use the PLO Charter. We could base some of our laws on peaceful Jordan which makes it a capital crime to sell land to Jews. Or, we could look to that shining example of tolerence, Saudi Arabia. I'll go you one better, because I'm a fair person - we can base your treatment in Israel on the Qurán, after all, what objection could you have to be treated as is recommended in your own holy book? If you like, I can give you quotes from the Qurán, the Hadith, & Sharía in case you missed them. Now that's fair, isn't it?
8. the Jewish symbols should continue to exist – alongside the
redmike ,   tel aviv   (12.05.08)
"the Jewish symbols should continue to exist – alongside the Arab onesArab ones?! If he's said the opposite I might have continued reading, Mike
9. #4 - around 80,000 Arabs have left ..
redmike ,   tel aviv   (12.05.08)
Maybe you don't know it or you are simply pretending? Every Arab that was displaced (no Palesinians were displaced) after 67wants to leave if he/she can. And I wish them well becasue I'd want a better life too. When people get displaced it's a tragedy and it's happened to many people including the Jews so we understand it. Mike
10. #4 Palestinian - I already left one Arab country.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (12.05.08)
And I didn't come here to live in another one. Suffice it to say, the experience was educational. Stop repeating myths about Canaanites - they were not Arabs or they would be called Arabs. They did not speak Arabic, they spoke Hebrew (Hebrew is Canaanite). You think I'm hateful? That's hilarious. I guess you haven't read your own religious works - talk about hateful. Why don't you listen to some of the sermons in most mosques around the world. I had a good friend whose brother was a Muslim fundamentalist & every Saturday he would tell me what the Friday sermon was as told by his brother. It was one of the reasons I left & came here. I don't think that hateful is even a strong enough word. My friend (who is an ex-Muslim & a very normal guy) was totally freaked out. So, on the subject of hateful, you have no lessons to give me.
11. Terry, you make the same mistakes
Avinoam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.05.08)
as those who claim there is a worldwide Jewish conspiracy. Obviously you can spot the hypocrisy in your perspective. Why should Israeli Arabs be punished for something they were not personally involved in? Of course I am against any Israelis rooting for the other side, but being Arab doesn't make this automatic. It would help you to view Auda first as a man, then an Israeli, then an Arab. Then you may comprehend the important difference between his words and those of other Arab MKs. I am not his supporter, but I can recognise rational and enlightened thought when I see it, no matter the source.
12. Terry, and why should you assume I am a Muslim
Palestinian   (12.05.08)
What I am telling you is valid whether I am a Christian Palestinian, Muslim, or simply ethiest. No sir... Canaanites, were Arabians. Hebrew is a derivative of the Canaanite language is true. Canaan is a famous Arabic name, just like Adnan, Ghassan, Kahtan, etc... Here is a lesson in history: "According to this, Arabia was originally a land of great fertility and the first home of the Semitic peoples. Through the millennia it has been undergoing a process of steady desiccation, a drying up of wealth and waterways and a spread of the desert at the expense of the cultivable land. The declining productivity of the peninsula, together with the increase in the number of the inhabitants, led to a series of crises of overpopulation and consequently to a recurring cycle of invasions of the neighbouring countries by the Semitic peoples of the peninsula. It was these crises that carried the Assyrians, Aramaeans, Canaanites (including the Phoenicians and Hebrews), and finally the Arabs themselves into the Fertile Crescent."[5] Another one:
13. #11 But can you recognize demagogy and lies?
The Doc ,   Haifa, Israel   (12.05.08)
we will regard Auda and his acolytes as "humans", "Israeli" and then an "Arab", when he stops his encitement against Israel and starts recognizing the fact that Jews have rfeturned to their ancestral lands whuich have been reaped by almost everybody, and squatted by Muslims for generations. Once Israeli Arabs stop calling themselves "palestinians" and stop calling for the destruction of Israel and murderingof Jews, I will start regarding them as "enlightened" and "humans". Auda is more of the same: same organic hatred against Jews and Israel, but wrapped up in Communist toilet paper. And that does not make the deal any sweeter, considering the worldwide unholy international Islamo-Leftist active cooperation towards the destruction of the Jewish State. When Communist naive imbeciles work together with Islamist brutal, racist murderers, you cannot expect much good to come out of it. So keep on dreaming and talking with "enlightened HUMAN Arabs" like Auda, but don't be surprised when you get backstabbed at the first occasion.
14. #4 Canaanites weren't Arabs. And your self-identification as
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (12.05.08)
a Palestinian derives from the name the Hebrews and Canaanites gave to the sea-raiders of Crete. I've told you once - rewriting history as you do it is false. Are Arabs the only people of the Middle-East? Or are they merely the only one worthy of a country of their own? The way some of us get the picture, the Arabs of the Middle-East are willing to give us two choices - we can leave now, or we can form a bi-national state, and be forced to leave later. We've seen how ethnic conflicts are handled in Arab countries - Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Syria. Eventually the multi-national country becomes a mess of internal conflicts, which ends in a series of bloodbaths as each group does its best to pacify the other. We have no intention of living in that future, of being massacred into submission like the other ethnic and national minorities of the Middle-East were time and time again. So if you can finally get your act together and build your own country, do so. Stop constantly encouraging strife in ours, and *I* for one am tired of Israeli-Arab leaders playing right into your mentality.
15. #4
Avinoam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.05.08)
I have no support for Terry's words. Check my other posts. But you are certainly wrong. Israel is here to stay. This is reality. And that will include Jews of many different ideologies. Being wrong or even racist doesn't cost you your citizenship. Your attitude is not helpful. You would spite your children and grandchildren for the sake of a label? This is what you are doing. I personally don't care where I live, as long as no one is trying to kill me*, and I can prosper happily. (* or others like me) Also, Palestinian is not a very good name. It's only a location. Don't you feel your opinion is personal enough to identify with it? Being Palestinian doesn't automatically imply your particular belief.
16. Canaanites were not Arabs
Yitz ,   Yerushalayim   (12.05.08)
Palestinian, The Land of Israel has NOT been Arab land since the days of the Canaanites. The Arabs first came with the Islamic occupation of Caliph Omar Ibn al-Khattab in 638 CE. SInce then, Arabs have been living in the Land of Israel and they will remain here, as Zeev Jabotinsky writes: "First: the expulsion of the Arabs from Palestine is absolutely impossible in any form. There will always be two nations in Palestine – which is good enough for me, provided the Jews become the majority. Second: I am proud to have been a member of that group which formulated the Helsingfors Program. We formulated it, not only for Jews, but for all peoples, and its basis is the equality of all nations. I am prepared to swear, for us and our descendants, that we will never destroy this equality and we will never attempt to expel or oppress the Arabs. Our credo, as the reader can see, is completely peaceful. But it is absolutely another matter if it will be possible to achieve our peaceful aims through peaceful means. This depends, not on our relationship with the Arabs, but exclusively on the Arabs’ relationship to Zionism."
17. Yitz, are you sure? WRONG!
Concerned citizen   (12.05.08)
It is Islam that came to PAlestine in 638 CE and not Arabs. In fact, Omar bin al-Khattab signed a treaty with the Bishop Sophronius who was an Arab christian. There has been a Christian Arab kingdom in Palestine since the first century, known as the Ghassanids that extended to Lebanon and Syrian. These people have contributed a well-known emperor of Rome known as Philip the Arab. Finally, the Nabateans who were a pre-Roman ancient Arabians were present in Palestine and Jordan, and offered us Herod the Great, the King of Judea. The fact is that, we have both of us Jews and Arabs to rise beyond the nonsense and stop the claims of exclusivity of this land, because the facts do not support such claims. Faith, may be a different story.
18. # 4
no, terry is not hateful, but right and realistic. israel is a jewish nation, a nation for jews even though arabs live there and do enjoy freedoms and social benefits and education and anything that they could only dream of having in any arab state. if you complain that terry is hateful, let me ask you the following of who is really hateful. 1. the so called nakba that happened to the arabs of palestine is dworfed by the nakba that happened to all the one million jews that never enjoyed freedom, never felt safe, never owned land, never lived free, never were protected by islamic law and never allowed to be free and on the same level social, religious and academic as their muslims neighbors in all the arab muslim countries in arabia. they were persecuted, pogromed, killed, hanged, payed special tax for protection and never allowed jobs or the ability to live amongst muslims. and these jews lived in all these arab lands under muslims for much longer that your dear arabs in israel. much longer!!! but, alas, they were all kicked out of all arab lands after years of persecutions and antisemitism against them. they were kicked out and millions of their property and money and businesses were stolen by arab governments. till today, not a single one of them got compensated. yes, dear, you arabs performed lots of nakbas on jews that lived amongst you for millenia and finally robbed them and kicked them out. they were innocent! these jews came home to the only jewish nation that was created for jews so that nazis and the nazism all separadic jews experienced amongst you muslims will be finished and they can live free and honorably in their own jewish country. 2. if you really ide4ntify with palestin ians so much, why won't you do us all the honor of moving to the new palestinian state. israel is jewish even though you want to islamize it. no other country (christian) in the world puts islamic flags and islamic codes or islamic anything in government buildings or on the streets, etc....and they do have islamic population that live there as full fledged rights citizens. jews do not demand usa or europe put the israeli flag on any of their government buildings, etc... or have yidish or hebrew words on public buildings or on streets. and these jews have lived in europe for millenia too. muslims want a differnet treatment for them and for the rest of the world. no cigar my friend.
19. What Hadash believes
Dov ,   Los Angeles   (12.05.08)
This party believes in the right of return of 4 million Palestinians into Israel. They also believe that Israel and Palestine should be combined into one state, not two states living side by side. Jews should NOT vote for this party.
20. if the violence would end
Israeli   (12.05.08)
I would have no problem voting for him. I think we have to live as equals (as do most Israelis). the problem is the violence.
21. If you don't like it, VOTE
Steve from Raleigh   (12.05.08)
If you don't like what goes on in your community then vote. The Arab lists have a presence in politics. But the Arabs already decided that non participation and victimhood is what they want.
22. If WB and Gaza Arab Then Israel MNust Be JEWISH!
Ben K ,   NY USA   (12.05.08)
THE UN Voted to divide British Palestine into 1 Arab and one JEWISH state. Period.
23. Tell you what, why doesn't Ayman Auda go tell India...
Jacob Blues ,   New York City   (12.05.08)
that they should change their flag and symbols of the state. See how well that one goes over? Or better yet, go to Saudi Arabia, and tell them to change their flag and remove both the sword and the Quaranic verse. I'm sure they're open to such multi-culturalism. Same thing for the UK's Union Jack and the Swiss cross.
24. #13 Yes I can.
Avinoam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.05.08)
But I am trying to get you to see past what may generally be true. I am not refuting your points, but your attitude. Regardless of Auda's point of view, you would understand him better if you did not see him as a cog in a worldwide Islamic conspiracy. I can disagree with Auda without demonising him. Yes, communism is toilet paper. Yes, Islamic radicals are using it against western civilisation. However, did you notice: "The ideal situation," says the secretary-general, "would have been to run for Knesset in two lists – one patriotic-progressive-social with Hadash at its center, and the other patriotic-conservative with the Islamic Movement at its center… The Arab society will determine which society we seek – an enlightened progressive one or a conservative one." This shows he is aware of this problem, and that he would like to distance himself from that kind of ideology. I agree that the left is blind, but it doesn't help to be blind yourself. Consider things from the point of view of a "good" Arab Israeli. Who should he vote for? Some Jewish party that does not address his issues? We keep alienating this sector of the population and then wonder why some of them identify better with the Palestinians. We do not assimilate well enough. I would like it if Arab Israeli's were compelled to feel more Israeli than Arab, but this cannot happen while they are alienated. This alienation is NOT the root problem, but it does not help those "good" Arab Israelis who are not part of the real problem. And so we have the political field being polarised, which only makes things more difficult. Much the same as Zionist ideology has been hijacked by fanatics. Yes, Arab Israelis have a better life than the vast majority of Arabs in the world, but no one looks passed their backyard. They do not feel they are equals. We place too much importance on our Jewish symbols, rather than democracy. (See #5.) And I will keep dreaming. It is called optimism. Naturally not at the expense of rational thought.
25. The Arabs living in Israel.
Robert Bernier ,   Tel Aviv   (12.05.08)
Since its establishment Israel has hidden its head in the sand, refusing to face the fact that a mighty enemy has been growing within it, threatening its very existence. The Arabs of Israel see themselves as part of the Arab world and more particularly as “Arabs in occupied Palestine.” They enjoy every benefit that a democratic state has to offer, but they, together with Israel’s enemies, share the hope that this Jewish state, in which they have achieved conditions no other Arabs in the Middle East enjoy, will cease to exist. When Saddam Husayn attacked Israel with missiles in 1991, many Arabs in Israel supported the Iraqi dictator and openly demonstrated their sympathy for him. “We, the Arabs in this country,” – said Tibi – “wish to see a strong Arab force… able to confront the axis of the USA and Israel.” And these are among the mildest pronouncements of these Arab members of the Israeli parliament who enjoy all the rights and privileges that the Jewish Democracy can offer as explained at :
26. To #4, if you are a Canaanite, why don't you speak Hebrew?
Jake   (12.05.08)
the ancient Language of Canaan that was spoken in "Palestine" since before even the days of Abraham. Arabic is from Arabia, not "Palestine".
27. Terry #10 is right, and I understand where he's coming from
Jake   (12.05.08)
Neither the Western world nor the Ashkenazi society at large ever really understood or heard the narrative of the Jews from the Arab world. They see everything from the Orientalist perspective. Islam is deemed to have been a historically mild, gentle, and tolerant religion, while Christianity the source of all the problems. We have all heard about the massacre of the Jews in the Rhineland during the Crusades, and a catalogue of other massacres and expulsions against Jews. How many people know about the wholesale destruction of Babylonian Jewry that took place during the Middle Ages, which permanently put an end to the period end to the period of exilarchs, Geonim, the historical rabbinical academies, and the Jewish Aramaic culture. After the conversion to Islam of the Mongol dynasties ruling the Middle East in the 13th-14th centuries, the ancient Babylonian Jewish community was effectively liquidated, by a combination of massacres, expulsions, and forced conversions. This was effected in large part by mass pogroms carried out by Arab mobs. Most of Iraq remained Judenrein until the early Ottoman period, when Arabic-speaking Jews from nearby locations (e.g. Aleppo) were transplanted. Only in outlying areas did Jewish life continue uninterrupted, such as Zakho in Kurdistan where Aramaic-speaking Jews continued to live down to modern times. Most people in the West have heard of the Spanish inquisition and the edict of expulsion against the Jews by Ferdinand and Isabella in 1492. Most people do not know that the first massacre against Jews in medieval Spain was carried out in 1066 by Moslems in Granada. Most people have heard of the yellow badge that Jews were forced to wear during various periods, including by the Nazis. Most people don't know the yellow badge for Jews was first introduced by the Caliph Mutawakkil in Baghdad in the ninth century, and spread to the West in medieval times.
28. Fakestinian; Ancient Arab land is in Arabia!
Palestiniansareamyth ,   USA   (12.05.08)
Israel has been the Jewish homeland since thousands of years ago! Arabs have been invading and occupying the land and now lie and say it's their's. Bullcrap! Your homeland is in Arabia!
29. RE #12, "Caananites were Arabians", that's some education
Jake   (12.05.08)
you've got. It may be true that Arab tribes have been inhabiting the Arabian peninsula, as well as the Syrian, Negev, and Sinai deserts since the dawn of recorded history. However, Canaanites, Hebrews, Aramaeans, and other peoples of the Fertile Crescent were NOT Arabs and did NOT trace their descent from the Arabian peninsula and adjacent desert regions. It is for sure that their languages are Semitic, like Arabic. But it is less clear that the Semitic languages spread in ancient times as a result of mass emigration of Arab nomads, which began during the Roman period and culminated with the arrival of Islam. I speak English and identify with Anglophone culture. That does not make me a descendant of the Anglo-Saxons. Semitic language, like the broader 'Afro-Asiatic' group of languages may well have originated in the Horn of Africa, not, as previously thought, in the Middle East or Arabian peninsula.
30. Auda makes interesting admission
Arie ,   BaGolan   (12.05.08)
That the lefties represent the arabs and are not representingJews in israel
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