Opinion
The price of tolerance
Yaron London
Published: 08.12.08, 17:26
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32 Talkbacks for this article
1. Mr. London
Hertzel ,   Tiberias   (12.08.08)
I am not religius, I am secular and I say to you one thing: All that you wrote here applies to the Arab terrorists also, word for word, but you never attack them, never. Hamas,PLO and others will always see you willing to listen and understand their "plight" - WHY ???
2. Excellent article. Accurate analysis of settler politics.
Avinoam ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (12.08.08)
3. Talk about double standard
Yossi ,   Yerushalyim, Israel   (12.08.08)
I think we should put a sign in gaza, forbidding rocket launching. And behind it, a nuclear bomb. Gee whiz, that's messanic, crazy. But for Jews - even crazy settlers - it's fine. A fine combination of legitmate and illegitmate? Doesn't that sound exactly like the palestinian movement? But them we have to negotiate with? Come on buddy. It's messianic leftist, waiting for the messiah of stupidity to come, or until the palestinian push us all into the sea.
4. States' Hesitation To Use Force?
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.08.08)
Since when has the state hesitated to use forces against its own Jewish citizens? or maybe I have gotten the "wrong end of the stick?"
5. Mr.London Salivates At the Prospect
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.08.08)
of violence against Jews,hence his suggestion of an armoured car with a machine gun comment.He is a sick person...wishing hima speedy recovery and take your anti-hatred medication sir.Almost forgot,if Mr.London ever suffers the misfortune of being evicted from his house he can expect no sympathy from me.
6. London believes there are dangers inherent in defiance
Steve ,   US   (12.08.08)
Yaron London holds that defying 'legitimate', elected state authority undermines the very authority that should be respected and upheld. Otherwise we have chaos. He makes a compelling argument. On the other hand, Mr. London sees no virtue in the settlement of Israel's historic homeland or at least it would appear, not in the pre-1967 borders. He deems this zeal to settle the land a form of political "Messianism." Thus we have two competing interests here. In the eyes of many within the settlement movement and those of us who support the movement, there is the divine imperative or command to settle all of historic and Biblical Israel. On the other hand, we have the imperative of the state -- as it stands today -- and those that support the state, to dismantle this settlement enterprise in order to establish a Palestinian Muslim (no doubt, terror) state as enjoined by Mr. George W. Bush, Mr. Barack H. Obama and the international community. This is the reality of the choice we are facing today. While I sympathize with the warning that defiance of authority can be a dangerous thing, I also realize authority can be abused and misused. Authority can be used for evil purposes as was the case in Germany and as many European settlers in north America felt about mother England. What then is one to do? The question arises, at what point does a people defy authority? Or must we obey authority at all times and under all circumstances? It would appear Mr. London holds to the latter view.
7. Mr.London knows little about Police work
Rod ,   Fargo N.Dakota   (12.08.08)
As a Police officer myself as well as a ret. vet your gloating is very counter productive.You need not humiliate a adolescent to restrain or arrest him.I myself am over 6'5'' 300 pounds and yet in my Police classes i was taught never to humiliate youngsters,next time they may not be be so passive and seek revenge with firearms when you least expect it.Another thing friends and fence sitters may decide to join these teens and then you have a real problem on your hands.Please don't gloat too soon. Rod S.
8. Somebody with analytic brain!
Good Article   (12.08.08)
I question just one issue: Was it always "hestitation by the state"? For most of the time it was rather 'compliancy by the state'!
9. this is no longer a free and democratic country
Randi ,   Jerusalem   (12.08.08)
the left wing of this country has subverted both democracy and justice to serve their own narrow political interests. and their narrow political interests consist almost entirely of a deep and visceral hatred for settlers. it is a bias of the worst kind. mr. london saves all his hatred for his own. i come from america, where i felt free to express my opinion through non-violent demonstration and protest. here the representatives of the state use violence and incarceration against people with whom they disagree. and i am afraid to demonstrate here. how sad.
10. "The State Lost Its Deterrence "
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.08.08)
Says Mr.London.That's because it is too busy fighting teenage moronic settler kids.
11. Who Is This Arrogant Jackass To Call
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.08.08)
Others Arrogant?
12. talkback should be called whineback
eric ,   jerusalem   (12.08.08)
everytime an article is written that holds the mirror up to israeli society and its weaknesses (as all societies have) the inevitable collective whine comes forth from these pages that is along the lines of "but what about the arabs, theyre terrible!" or a chance to take a swipe at the haredi community. Not that I think either of those are without fault, quite the opposite. However, this is a tactic that is used all the time by people who simply cant face up to the glaring shortcomings present in their own camp and instead seek to divert attention from them. The whine from these people sounds like children in a classroom crying "but he started it" or "he does it all the time". its pathetic and makes you weak in the eyes of everybody else. grow up.
13. you r right barak s policy let hamas win
cordier   (12.08.08)
you r right barak s policy let hamas win. He is tolerant of the bombing of sderot by hamas terrorists. "A compromise with palestinians that is akin to capitulations is finalized by barak and olmert"... i don t unterstand why you are right with settler and you tell us exactly the opposite with hamas and gazza !!!!
14. THEY'RE CITIZENS NOT SETTLERS. AND RESORTED TO LAST HOPES
GEE MR LONDON , WOW ,   ..............DACON9   (12.08.08)
THEY'RE CITIZENS NOT SETTLERS. AND RESORTED TO LAST HOPES Mr London do you hate the street people, the workers, the citizens, the people that wear a kipa Do you hate them that much that you disregard all their rights and efforts they made fighting PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND OLMERT PERES BARAK LIVNI SHARON AND OTHER 'sophisticated 'israelis. These citizens fought like the arabs. The arabs got results.. the arabs made a terrorist training ground on GUSH KATIF. THESE SETTLERS ARE DOING WHAT THEY SEE AS THE ONLY EFFECTIVE THING.... YELL SHOUT SCREAM HOLLAR, WHILE they are bieng pelted with arab stones and qassams are flying into ISRAEL.... AND YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE citizens...? GEE...what a dissappointment. MASHIACH WILL HAVE HIS HANDS FULL WITH SO MANY LIKE YOU.. do you believe in mashaich? OF COURSE NOT. DO YOU BELIEVE IN THEONE G'D OF ISRAEL? DO YOU BELIEVE IN HUMANINTY FAIT PLAY AND A JEWISH LAND? what do you believe in? I look at your picture and I see so much arrogance.... Do you really know it all ?
15. # 12 And You Don't Whine?
Lawrence ,   Safed Israel   (12.08.08)
You sir are whining more than anybody,even the foolish Mr.London,can you not see that? You need to grow up and stop being pathetic."Glaring shortcomings in their own camp?" .Whatever are you talking about? This is one Nation not camps...
16. #9 - Right On
nr ,   los angeles, usa   (12.08.08)
I went to a Nefesh B Nefesh meeting last night to consider making aliyah and kept thinking - how can I live in a country where basic funadmental human rights are ignored. How can the govt of Israel treat Jews like this? It's disgusting. Mr. London, you're an idiot. You have no idea was democracy is, or decent police behavior. You want your way and you don't care what it costs to get it. Too bad. Democracy means everybody gets a point of view, not just you. These young people you want to destroy will one day fight your wars for you and you don't deserve their sacrifice.
17. London called to MURDER settler families - video
Narkisi   (12.08.08)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LExbdHtMuVI
18. # 16 Think Hard Before You Throw
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.08.08)
Away the good life of Los Angeles for this lunatic asylum.I have times when I regret coming here.
19. There Is Just Too Little Tolerance Here
Lawrence Tendler ,   Safed Israel   (12.09.08)
And that is the problem in a Nutshell...
20. Mr. London
Ricardo Macher ,   KarneiShomron Israel   (12.08.08)
I don't like Mr. London, I don't agree with him and don't believe him to the point that if he says it's day I'll go out and check. But I must admit he is clever and intelligent. That is why he is writing things like this! He sees further on and see that time's are changing, he see he's doomed, he and the values he represent, he doesn't want to admit that it's not that the government is loosing deterrance and strengh, the government of thiefs and sick power biggots we have (and that he defends) cannot lose what it never had. Mr. London, you are history and you know it! Use your intelligence and realise that it would be much more clever for you to abandon htis fight (actually it's not a fight any more) and admitt defeat, maybe, just maybe, history will pardon you then!
21. Well said Mr London
Colin ,   Kfar Saba   (12.08.08)
Mr London is correct in what he said. As much as many people on this forum dont like, Israel is a democratic state with a government elected by the citizens. We have a legal framework and it must be respected. If the legal framework and the government is not respected we have a system where elements of society take the law into their own hands and we have anarchy We have elections coming up next year and to the right wingers on this forum, this is your opportunity to try and gather support for your beliefs and put a right wing government in place. To be honest the despicable acts of the "settlers" last week in hebron lost the right wing camp a lot of votes good luck - in the end of the day a likud government would have acted in the same manner against the settlers that were breaking the law
22. London: Negotiate with terrorists who happily would
Jae ,   Lynn USA   (12.09.08)
blow your child's head off , but not with Jews who want to live in Judea and the city of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob Sarah, Riebecca, etc. You make no sense London. But thats because your living on some arabs property from 150 years ago. You are hypocritical. The Jews have this one tiny land, dont begrudge your fellow Jews that. If you think that Hamas wont take over the West Bank you are more ignorant than I feared. But you probably were shocked, just like the rest of the incompetent Israeli left governemnt , media (ynet excluded ;)and academia, when Hamas took over Gaza.
23. #8, What does "compliancy" mean?
Jake   (12.09.08)
The level of your accuracy mirrors that of your English.
24. London's prayer rug is a frayed as his writing.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (12.09.08)
25. Friendly advice to the religious talkbackers
(12.09.08)
I know you believe in the G-d of Israel and his mashiach. I do too. But you have to stop using G-d's will as an argument against the secular leftists. They don't believe in G-d or the coming of the mashiach, and so they instantly dismiss these arguments as irrelevant. If you really want to mount an effective argument against the secular leftist ideology, you need to discuss the issues on an appropriate basis. Using a faith based argument against seculars will not get you anywhere. Discuss security concerns and demographic concerns, but do not discuss G-d.
26.  the author is out of touch with reality!!!
eliezer ,   jerusalem   (12.09.08)
Jewish zealots have been taking advantage of State’s hesitation to use force this is so wrong! I have witnessed time and time again tht the state has no hesitancy to use force, that is against JEWS! but against ARABS it is afraid to use force. the author is sick and out of touch with reality!!!
27. #16, I LIKE WHAT YOU SAID BETTER THEN WHAT I SAID #14
..............DACON9   (12.09.08)
WELL Mr LONDON OLE BOY... I GUESS YOU WOULD'NT BE RUNNING FOR OFFICE TO SOON.. but then again.. i would be giving to much credit to the Israelis for 'thinking' and voting with their minds,wouldnt I ?.They just might vote you in as pm... A SPOT OF TEA SIR?
28. #21 the "legal framework" that you spoke of lied and cheated
Randi ,   Jerusalem   (12.09.08)
in order to promote their view. the 2judges that were originally suposed to hear the case, along with benish, were a religious guy and a middle-of-the roader. at the last minute she replaced them with an Arab and the most left-wing judge on the court. and to top it off, they refused to even listen to the evidence. when the supreme court makes decisions without hearing the evidence, there is no justice! and the despicable acts you refer to in Hebron were carried out, not by the people living in the house in hebron, but rather by a couple hundred teenagers who went to hebron from all over the county. get your facts right before you indict an entire movement!
29. toleranse
nahi ,   jerusalem   (12.10.08)
sometimes you have nothing only to tolerate but sometimes it is your choice to tolerate ... till now it is the choice to tolerate the settelers and it is the choice to tolerate the goverment response . but to palastinians it is not a choice and could not be obligatory to tolerate these settelments . so violence of these settellers or the response of goverment may changed by the increase power not of israil but the pals .......
30. Re:16
Thundercloud65 ,   Oklahoma City USA   (12.10.08)
Democracy indeed grants everyone a say NR, but are you saying that everyone in the state of Israel gets a say? An Israeli Arab would probably say "that would be stretching things a bit" let alone those occupied by Israel in areas not recognized by the rest of the planet.
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