Break off all Yeshiva funding and allocate it to the mainstream education system, and allow the Haredim to manage their religious education themselves.

What a load of cow droppings! These religious parasites have no problem milking the system dry, while contributing nothing what so ever to society and now they are biting the hand that feeds them. I suggest that they get a job pay taxes, serve in the army and then come and talk about fairness!

So it's okay to get tax shekels for yeshivot, but it's not okay for the government to control how you spend or rather waste this money. Oh my... what do you lot think that you're so special that seculars have to pay for your pathetic life-style? Grow up, change these silly dresses of your yours, open your eyes to the real world, you can't hide from reality behind the cover of Torah. Money is reality guys.

Let's cut them off from ALL state funds! FORCE them to go and find work. I'm not too sure they'll find it though, not with their education.

Why not go further and ask the Haredi public to decline Welfare from the State as well, since they hate the state so much,let them survive from their own means! In the USA,in NY and Chicago the Haredim support their own families by working during the day and studying Torah at night let them do the same here! They are not superior to American Haredim or their Eurpoean counterparts !

I'd like to see them cope without government funds.

No supervision No money. The rabbis extortion must be stopped They say stop supervision The people say No money!!!See who breaks first?????

But, was this really the only issue that "thousands" of chareidim went to a rally to listen to? And to demonstrate about? What was the topic of the event advertised as to the chareidim. Were there any other important issues of interst to the chareidim that brought the crowds? I have a feeling that this reporting could have been a little better, a little more extensive.

this government has BIG ideas how to try and kill the Torah, which of course is impossible and a stupid idea. But one of them is to withhold funding because they see a way to infiltrate their ideologies into the yeshivas. Nearby one can read of how low Israeli schools faired on math and science tests. So what is the bid deal to bring secular studies that regular school kids are failing at anyhow? The Torah teaches everything, take a look for yourself.

Now stop taking my tax money by living on the dole and go in the army like the rest of us.

So WHO is going to support these yeshivas if not the government?? Many of the wealthy donors who supported them are now having financial difficulties and cannot donate as before.

See? it's your holier than thou attitude, that you know more than everyone else.... again!! Only you don't! Another typical religious Looney that likes to call everyone stupid if they don't believe in the same junk that you do and don’t see what is really going on around you. Secular schools have a much wider curriculum than religious ones. So save your preaching. Some schools are better than others - that's a fact. Go read the Torah if you want, don't expect us to do the same.

Speaking as a member of the community which organized this protest, I wish to clarify the following: * We oppose accepting any state funds. We don't want the state to get involved in anything related to the education of our youth. We want their education not to be dependent on state money - because once we would accept state money and become dependent on it, then they could afterwards strangle us with demands to teach certain subjects the rabbis forbade and threaten to cancel our budgets then. Furthermore, our community (the "Edah Haredit" comprising communities such as Satmar, Toldos Aharon, Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok, Dushinsky, Breslov and others) is strongly opposed to receiving any kind of government money - nicluding subsidies. We do NOT life off your taxes. Many members of our community have real jobs (even if they are simple) and many live from donations from rich Jews in America. But we don't live on *your* tax money! We are *not* the Chareidim of Yosef Sholom Eliashiv, Ovadia Yosef and their likes. We are the "Edah Haredit" and we only represent ourselves. As for myself, I work 45 hours per week in a Jerusalem-based IT company. I pay some 500 - 700 shekels of taxes a month. If you want any more information, or scans of the exact wordings of the calls for this demonstration, mail me.

( :- ) ~

Thank you for the clarification. A little rational explaining goes a long way.

Did you serve in the army or do national service? How about your children?

We cannot help but to see the irony of the latest results of the secular grading system, comparing educational systems in 49 countries. Israel continues to slide, now ranking 24 of 49 countries, as compared to the United States (9), or Russia (8). In 2003, Israel’s position was considerably better, ranking 19. The irony, perhaps the fact that Education Minister Prof. Yuli Tamir, who "proudly" exhibits her extreme left-wing and "anti-chareidi leanings", continues to bash the chareidim for opting to ignore basic secular subjects from their curriculum. While one may agree or disagree with the decision of the chareidi system, the children by all accounts do learn the subject matter presented to them, unlike the students of the nation’s public school system, who seem to reach new lows every years based on the international standard. Another example of the ailing system is the nationwide mathematics aptitude exam, with the average grade, 44.1% in 8th grade – 59.2% in 5th grade. The exam was taken by over 110,000 students around the country as a measure of system wide scholastic achievement. The exam was given last year and the results were released on Tuesday. The poor results are evident in other subjects as well, such as science & technology (56.5% in 8th grade – 59.2% in 5th grade). Grades in Hebrew and English were somewhat better, but not a badge of honor, reflecting a general trend. In Hebrew, 8th graders scored 67.9% and 5th graders 78.4%. English – 8th graders 73.8% and 5th graders 58.4%) One of the reasons given was last year’s two-month strike and the job actions and strike days that plagued the school system in the previous academic year as well. Tamir blames the results on the poor level of the nation’s teachers, stating “we must raise the level of our teachers”. Another alarming statistic released in the report states that 14% of the students admitted to involvement in a violent incident during the month preceding the exam. What is obvious, for whatever the reason, the nation’s public schools are becoming increasingly violent and students are learning less each year. In the meantime Prof. Tamir, continue diverting attention away from the problem and keep bashing the chareidim. *These are facts* The Chareidem are much better off w/o the misrad hachinuch messing up their curriculum

You don't HAVE to oppose - you just don't sign and don't collect state funds. No song and dance, no look-at-us-we're-great - just don't collect. And, if you can work, why can't the rest of them? They all seem to work full time jobs in New York and London. Why do you have to live off donations? Why scrounge for money? it's repellent. What forbids you from serving in the IDF? There ARE religious that do. You work 45 hours a week and pay 500-700 shekels in tax? I work 45 hours a week and pay almost 6 times more than you do in tax. Why is that?

who do you think pays for the roads, sanitation, police, firemen etc? you leach off the country and do nothing for it in return- at least admit it. i am happy to hear that you work and pay taxes but 90% of you dont. the rambam would be ashamed of you.

What kind of a question is that about taxes? Maybe you earn more than him? Or, maybe he has more dependents than you. In any case, it probably is not really any of your business. He was trying to demonstrate that he does pay taxes - not to get into a conversation or why he pays what he pays...Now you guys are going to start asking everyone why they pay what they pay? Nothing is ever good enough for you, is it? Oh, and BTW, I would be deliriously happy to know that MY tax money doesn't go to pay for all of your luxuries, such as "cultural" activities and the likes or to support yet another Israeli election to elect another corrupt politician as Prime Minister. The thought really disturbs me that this is where my tax money would be spent. I would be so much happier knowing that my tax money goes to support the poor or those that have a hard time earning a living...

At least Hareidi students don't have teachers who gro pot or have sex with their students, and those subjects which they are taught they excel in not like Yuli Tamir's wonderful math program. As for jobswhy must there be a catch 22 that in oprder to work one must serve first in the IDF? What is the purpose of being in the IDF to chase Jews from their homes, to bet kidnapped by our enemy and watch hundreds of the enemy prisoners who were caught in acts of terrorism get released by Olmert and Co. while Gilad Shalit rots in Gaza? To sit on their hands and do NOTHING while the Jews of Sderot and other cities get bombed and attacked? According to leftist policy we do not need an IDF, we have no enemies we have Piss Partners. The only people the IDF fights are Jews who were sent to the territories by the leftist government in good faith and are getting screwed over by the new leftist gvt. Should the Yeshivas take money from the gvt. ? Absolutely not but neither should any Universities or other private school!

The kid after having spent 6 years in a yeshiva in Israel, came back here and was able to finish Quebec High School in one year. That included Math, English and French. Today he is well on his way in university studies. I attribute his success to having been in an environment that encouraged learning. Yes my dear, dati bashers, the Yeshivas do that. In my sons case the yeshiva prepared him and today he breezes thru secular studies like it were popcorn. For all you new MODERN SOPHISTICATED JEWS in ISRAEL, when a society can’t educate its kids as Israel today clearly cant you all end up being the poorer. It’s time to get back to basics and quit the constant dati bashing. It only makes you look silly and pathetic.

Corrupt politicians; of course you are referring to the Shas rebbunim who have been convicted of various felonies. Of course your oh so religious people who want to be elected mayor of Jerusalem even though he is prohibited by law since he is a convicted felon. As long as it is one of your sect, that makes it all nice, nice. Your holier than thou nonsense is the raving of a sick individual.

Arielush #15: Hope you learned something from it. We are the part of the chareidi community that tries to actually not profit from the state. Talula #18: I suppose you make a lot more money than I do, since 6x 500-700 shekels would be my entire salary. I earn about 7000 NIS a month and pay some 700 of it to taxes (mas hachnasa, bituach leumi and bituach briut). I guess it might be a little bit less than others still because I might be counted as a "new immigrant". As for why the others don't work: is there anything wrong with not working, and rich Jews in America giving the money? Why would that be a problem? Some (ie, many) in our community prefer to lead a simple life which is completely dedicated to our religion; and others, rich American Jews (many from the Satmar community there), choose to support them. Sounds fine to me, right? As a matter of fact, the number of working people in the circles of the "Edah Haredit" is quite large. My own rabbi, who is a quite famous rabbi - one of the leaders of the Edah Haredit and one of the speakers yesterday - has two brothers: one is a plumber in Canada, and the other runs a grocery store (makolet) in Meah Shearim. Also, don't underestimate how many of the women work. If they themselves choose for such a life, then, why not? In my household, I'm the one working, because I believe that I should be the one providing my family with an income (not my wife). That's what the ketubah (Jewish marriage contract) says. But as for those families where the wife chooses to work and raise the children, to allow the husband to learn all day: if that makes them happy and they can make it that way, then that's fine with me. Ofer #16: As for IDF service, I'm an immigrant and exempted from service. Back then, I might just have done it if they would have offered me a normal salary. How do you expect someone who is in the country all alone (without any family), barely speaking Hebrew, without a rich family in chutz la'aretz to support him, to live off 400-500 shekels a month for 3 years? If they would have given me at least 5000 NIS a month or so, which the armies of other countries pay their soldiers, I just might have considered it. And to all: it's nice to speak a bit more seriously. :)

1. All approved or agreed education systems should receive fair support. 2. So who are these guys who don't want it and are being abusive? 3. I doubt if they represent the main stream Haradim, why are we not told who they are.

Haredi students don't have teachers that grow pot or have sex with their students? DRUGS were found in a synagogue last month - and tens of cases reported of Rabbi's sexually assaulting students. When you open a talkback with crap like that - I just couldn't see the point in reading further. Get your facts straight or read the news more often! You need the education, or at the very least learn to read a newspaper, and NOT selectively.

First of all, you don't get to chose where your tax money goes - just like the rest of us. Maybe you cringe at the thought that a percentage of your tax money is spent on 'cultural' activities, such as museums and the like, but those centers are for every walk of life to enjoy. How sad for you to cringe at something that makes our country a nicer more cultured place to grow. You don't pay for my luxuries, I do that myself. The chances are that MORE of the money I pay in tax ends up in some lazy Haredi family's pocket than in a new exhibition at the Museum of Art. They HAVE a choice, they CHOOSE NOT to work - they CHOOSE NOT to serve in a religious unit of the army - even though many do. I give as much as I can to charity for needy people – I do my part there as well. So, my thoughts remain the same on the subject. Nothing changed here!

Wonderful idea! (though unfortunately, they don't really mean it) I would rather see that money invested somewhere else, than on people who do not care about this country or care to be part of it.

As I thought "the rally,was organized by the Haredi Community anti-Zionist faction" So why did this article not say so? Why is this article trying to imply that this is the view of all Haradim? These are the guys that try to physically stop the majority Haradim from voting in elections. These are extremists. Why were other respondants not intrested in finding out who were behind all of this?