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Perfume vials from Christ's era unearthed in Israel
Reuters
Published: 11.12.08, 11:35
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12 Talkbacks for this article
1. " Christ "
Alain E. Sportiche ,   Paris, France   (12.11.08)
Christ is from the Greek word Khristos. It is the translation of the Hebrew word Mashiah meaning the anointed. A Jewish-Israeli newspaper should be more careful with its wordings. Alternatives are Jesus era, Roman era or better the late Second Temple era. We may recognize with the Jewish tradition that indeed a pseudo-messiah named Jesus existed among many others during the Roman period. But Jesus is not the expected Jewish Redeemer. Rabbi Akiba and the Sages thought that Bar Kohba was the Messiah. Centuries earlier, King Hizkiyahu could have been our Messiah. Many others tried but did not succeed. We still wait & believe with complete faith in His coming & even though He may delay, nevertheless, we anticipate every day that He will come.
2. Christ # 2
chaim ,   vancouver Canada   (12.11.08)
While I respect your position, not everyone shares that point of view, especially in Israel as there are many jews who have accepted the claims of the man of Nazareth and live 'within' the orthodox boundaries of scripture.
3. to#2 Those are christians and not Jews!
jason white ,   afula,israel   (12.12.08)
jesus was Jewish and not christian! If he were alive today,he would pray with us Jews and not with christians. Anyhow he would be appalled at what christians did to his fellow Jews for the last two thousand years.
4. #1 is absolutely right
Myackie   (12.11.08)
if YNET wants to refer to this specific time period, say Jesus' time, not christ...there is no christ.
5. #1, "Messiah" is a vague nebulous term in the Bible
Jake   (12.11.08)
applied to various figures, including the Persian King Cyrus. It is not a clearly defined term in the Tanach, other than "one who is anointed". The statement of faith you mentioned originates in fact with Maimonides. As for who will be in charge of redeeming the Jewish people and the world in the future, Isaiah 11 clearly ascribes this task to God alone, and not to some charismatic human leader or prophet or king appointed by God: "11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord will set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people, that shall remain from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And He will set up an ensign for the nations, and will assemble the dispersed of Israel, and gather together the scattered of Judah from the four corners of the earth."
6. THE Christ
Tom   (12.11.08)
Dear Alain. I don't know if you have taken the time or not to ready the New Testament, but you must, in order to examine the claims made by Jesus. As the old phrase goes, either he was a insane, a liar, or truly is who he said he was. If his claims are true, then the ramifications for each person is of supreme importance as it now means you must conform your life to the truth. For my part, I have examined--very, very thoroughly--his claims and the vast amount of evidence and I tell you with great confidence and assurance, he truly is the Son of God and the King of Israel. As such, we must repent of our sins and place our total faith and trust in Jesus, the Christ and the Messiah of Israel, who was put to death, in accorance with our loving Father's will and plan for the salvation of mankind. God bless you.
7. The scent, the flavour of f the moment
walt K ,   Sherbrooke, Canada   (12.12.08)
All of you missed the most important point : Who will wear this perfume next ?
8. Give me a break!
Edithann ,   USA   (12.12.08)
Jesus would neve have given orders like that to Samuel..so something is very wrong..can anyone tell us what it is? 1 Samuel 15.3 "Go and attack the Amalekites! Destroy them and all their possessions. Don't have any pity. Kill their men, women, children, and even their babies. Slaughter their cattle, sheep, camels, and donkeys." TATA
9. Which Mary?
Candle bright ,   springfield illinois   (12.12.08)
Where does the bible describe Mary pouring perfume? Is this Mary M. or Martha's sister Mary? you have all been duped by inaccurate history!!! Wake up!! Find this stuff yourself.
10. Only 3 Choices
Larry ,   Minneapolis, USA   (12.12.08)
Alain and others, I know that Jesus is a stumbling block to you and many others. So be it. I have been in Israel many, many times and had people tell me "when the mashiach (messiah) comes, we will ask him if he has been here before." I have joked with them that it will be a little late at that point. I am a Christian and believe that Jesus truly is the messiah. Statistically and logically alone, his fulfillment of so many of the prophecies of old argues that he is the messiah. But it is up to you to decide. The one thing that he CANNOT be is a "good man". As Tom said, he is either a madman, a liar or He was who He said He was....the Messiah. You decide. Those are the only 3 choices you have.
11. Answer to #6 -- Tom
Anders Branderud ,   Täby, Sweden   (12.12.08)
Hello Tom. You write that the Christian Christ is the le-havdil Jewish Mashiakh (Messiah). Of course this statement must be examined by studying Torah in Hebrew. I believe that the Mashiakh has come and that he lived during the first century. The Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel do believe that the Mashiakh was the pro-Torah and pro-Halakhah Pharisee Ribi Yehoshua. Ribi Yehoshua has an authentic ancient paternal genealogy that survived the Romans and, therefore, pass the muster of Neh. 7.63 in Tan’’kh. The Mashiakh, prophesied to be the Davidic Kohein ha-Gadol in the eternal Beit ha-Miqdash (The House of the Holy Place, Hellenized / de-Judaized to “Temple”) in the heavens, can be held to no less standard than the Kohanim. Other Davidic claims today are mere tradition lacking the required authority of the ancient Yukhasin (official public genealogy records).” Parts of quote: Paqid Yirmeyahu The logical conclusion is this: Either the Mashiakh has come or it will never be a Mashiakh. Read more here: www.netzarim.co.il; click at “History Museum” in the left menu; click at “Mashiakh” in the top menu; click at “Mâshiakh of Tana"kh Subverts Tana"kh to be the Mâshiakh?” to the right of the burning scroll” Now let’s examine your statement that the Christian Christ is the le-havdil (to differentiate) Jewish Mashiakh (Messiah). Please read Devarim (eng. Deuterornomy) 13:1-6 in Hebrew. This passage says: "His commandments shall you observe". In Hebrew the word for commandments that is used is מצות (Hebrew transliteration: mitzwot; plural for מצוה - mitzwah). That means all the מצות of the תורה (Torah), for example one מצוה is that you shall not eat shell fish. The passage says that a person who adds a מצוה or removes a מצוה is a false prophet. Christianity claims that J*esus fulfilled le-havdil (to differentiate) Torah; and that therefore they don’t need to practise the מצות (commandments) in Torah. Christians practise some of the מצות in תורה (Torah). תורה (Torah)‭ ‬ (תורה שבעל פה with תורה שבכתב) (oral Torah with written Torah) is indivisible and, therefore, may only be accepted or rejected in its entirety; never partially. Selective observance ≡ selective rejection of תורה-in-its-entirety. Therefore, rejection of even one מצוה (mitzwah; commandment) is rejection of תורה-in-its-entirety. Therefore: selective observance is an unequivocal rejection of תורה, not תורה observance! The Christian J*esus practised selective Torah-observance – that is rejection of תורה. • Logic requires departure from a beginning state (א = any defined start state), be proven—never assumed. • Onus of proof is always on whomever claims departure from state א and cannot be sidestepped or diverted; otherwise, assertion of departure from state א remains logically invalid Let א = Devarim (Hellenized to Deuteronomy) 13:1-6 requires that no one add or subtract one מצוה from תורה. If one person does this -> then that person is a false prophet. • No proof of departure from state א (defined above) has ever been demonstrated. Hence Torah - which all Christians accept as true - declares your Christ as a false prophet. Malakhi 3:6 dictates that the Creator does NOT change. Tom, you say that NT, which teaches selective Torah-observance, is correct. Anyone who states that Devarim 13:1-6 is not applicable anymore needs to prove his or her point according to the above logical statement - including you. I hope you will research our website (www.netzarim.co.il) which demonstrates how to follow Ribi Yehoshua by practising non-selectively Torah-observance. Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)! Anders Branderud Geir Toshav, the only legitimate Netzarim, which is in Ra’anana in Israel (www.netzarim.co.il)
12. Return of Messiah
biblthmp ,   USA   (12.13.08)
Zechariah spelled out very well, what it will look like, when the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords returns. I would suggest reading chapters 12 through 14 of his book, to get a vibrant picture. Even down to the nail prints in his hands. Many argue that multitudes of Jews were crucified, how will we know which one. Zechariah makes it very clear. He says "They will look upon the one whom THEY have pierced. And yes, thousands upon thousands of Jews were crucified in those days, but only ONE was crucified on orders of the Jewish leadership. Bar Kockba did not die of crucifixion, so I guess Akiba was wrong.
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