Opinion
Hamas rally our fault
Anat Saragosti
Published: 15.12.08, 18:15
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
27 Talkbacks for this article
1.  HOW ABOUT SOME ACCOUNTABILITY FROM THE 89% OF GAZA ARABS?
Jae ,   Lynn US   (12.15.08)
Hamas is the responsibility of the 89% of Gaza ARABS that voted the terror to lead them. Typcial Jewish repsonse of blaming yourself though. No wonder the world doesnt respect us that much- we DONT RESPECT OURSELVES. Jews= no self respect
2. Shalit kidnapped while Fatah controlled Gaza
Ilan ,   Ariel   (12.15.08)
If 'turning a blind eye to Hamas' creation' was a mistake then Oslo which brought in Arafat his terror network was something that approaches treason.
3. Stop looking back
ed ,   New York, USA   (12.15.08)
It's pointless to think backwards in this. Whether it was Hamas or some other home-grown Islamist variant that would have invariably sprouted, the result would have been the same. The retention of Gaza after the Six Day War, despite the wiser counsel of Ben Gurion who recommended 'gifting' it back to Egypt, is at the source of this. It was folly to imagine that so many Arabs would have placidly remained under Israeli rule, multiplied at the rate they are and not had developed their own agenda.
4. RE: whose fault
Rod ,   Fargo N.Dakota   (12.15.08)
It's everyone's fault except the terrorists themselves.It reminds of the old system where everyone blamed the woman for being raped because of her dress ,looks or time she was outside,it's everyones fault but the guilty
5. Rubbish.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (12.15.08)
The mistake was in thinking peace was ever possible. The mistake was in not being ruthless enough in the pursuit of our national interests.
6. Yes our fault, we never destoyed Them, Never too late.
Shlomo W ,   RBS   (12.15.08)
7. So everyone but the Arabs themselves are to blame?
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (12.15.08)
As Terry says, "Rubbish". Hamas is just an extension of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood - the same Brotherhood that's extended its reach into Jordan, Syria and - Heaven help us - the US. Whatever hope Israel had they could be used to "divide and conquer", or modicum of support, was of little consequence in the end. The author also finds only Israelis to blame for this state of affairs - Shamir, Peri, the architects of the Oslo Accords, Netanyahu, Barak, Sharon, Olmert, Livni. As if the Arabs aren't independent actors responsible for their own actions.
8. The ''Israel is the root of all evil'' theory.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (12.15.08)
Oh, the poor innocent Palestinians, such peaceful, gentle, non-violent people who only want to live in peace with their neighbors if only the evil Zionists would let them. They really love Jews, they just express their love with suicide bombers, mortars, Kassams, snipers, stabbings, shootings, lynching if they can, bulldozers, kidnappings, hostage taking, incitement to genocide, & other charming folk customs. We all know how these saintly innocents yearn for peace & it's all the fault of the wicked Jews who stubbornly refuse to disappear.
9. Wrong. Hamas is a branch of the 'Moslem Brotherhood'
Jake   (12.15.08)
which was born in the 1920's in Egypt. The existence of Hamas has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel. It stems from an Islamist movement that predates the founding of the State and was not founded on the platform of opposition to Zionism. The truth is that before Oslo, Israel supported the Mukhtars in the West Bank that were loyal to Jordan and King Hussein. They had nothing to with Hamas. Israel did allow an Islamic charity to be registered as a not-for-profit charity organization, in a bid to offset Fatah influence. However, this Islamic charity received money primarily from King Hussein of Jordan, and did not have as its platform the destruction of Israel. The author of this article is suffering from a severe form of the syndrome of Self-Hatred, which blames Israel and the Jews first, and asks questions later. She simply cannot accept that violent extremism, whether "secular" or "religious", has always been the way of Israel's enemies. It was not a creation of Israel.
10. Everything Is Our Fault!
GloomBoom.com ,   Nashville, TN, USA   (12.15.08)
This is craziness. Sometimes democracies make mistakes but then they can correct and do the right thing. Obviously the current policies are working. We need Bibi!
11. Palestinians and the IMF
Natan ,   Israel   (12.15.08)
As was published today , the main reason of the quick money transfer from Israel to the Palestinians , was caused by heavy pressure by the IMF and the Quartet ( Tonny Blair ) . Here is my email to the IMF --------------------------------------------- To the President of the IMF : Please , next time that the banks in Gaza and the West bank needs money , do yourself the transfer of the so needed money , and don't ask for us , the Israelis , to do this. After all, they are using our money to make missiles that they have the pleasure to send to our homes . I already lost my daughter with one of this missiles , and don't want to loose my other daughter , and son or my wife. Please , take care yourself of the Palestinian financial problems . If you prefer , ask Hamas to send the missiles to your office . They will do it as soon as possible , and they will be very please to do so. Just send the money ..... Natan Israel Copies of this email sent to the main newspapers in the USA .
12. PLO was created by Nasser and KGB in Egypt
Jake   (12.15.08)
3 years before the "occupation of 1967", in a bid to "liberate" those areas of "Palestine" not yet under Arab control. (What areas could those be?) The PLO was created in Egypt by a mandate from the Arab League, and was largely engineered with assistance of the Soviet KGB. The ideological predecessors of the PLO were the Fedayeen, which during the 50s were incorporated into the Egyptian army under Nasser's command, and directed by Nasser to attack Israel from both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. The heyday of international terrorism was the product of PLO organizations, e.g.Fatah, PFLP and DFLP, in addition to other organizations on the "Palestinian Left", like Black September and Abu Nidal. I fail to see how these organizations have been more "freedom-loving" or less insidious toward Israel than Hamas. I fail to see how Israel could benefit from the presence of any of these groups. They have all been existential enemies.
13. The Facts speak the exact opposite of Ms. Saragosti
Jake   (12.15.08)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas "Sheikh Ahmed Yassin founded Hamas in 1987 as an offshoot of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. The acronym "Hamas" first appeared in 1987 in a leaflet that accused the Israeli intelligence services of undermining the moral fiber of Palestinian youth as part of Mossad's recruitment of what Hamas termed "collaborators". The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military branch, was created in 1992, a year before the Oslo Accords."
14. Ilan #2 hit the nail squarely on the head.
Jake   (12.15.08)
Hamas, the local arm of the Moslem Brotherhood, was already in the territories. Perhaps Israel made a mistake by turning a blind eye to it, but it was already there. But a far greater sin on the part of Israel was the importation from Tunis of a Trojan Horse on an unprecedented scale, in the form of Arafat's terror network, a vast supranational behemoth which had been nurtured by billions of petro-dollars, the KGB, and just about everything in existence on the planet which had an interest in the utter destruction of Israel. In fact, the Oslo accords were engineered behind Yithak Rabin's back by his Leftist coalition partners, without his approval. The Left then mounted a visceral campaign of incitement in the media against Rabin, until he agreed to sign the accords. Those in Israel who engineered the entry of this Trojan Horse should have stood trial for High Treason, and been punished to the full extent of the law. Their crimes are utterly unforgivable. I cannot understand how their perpetrators have not been utterly proscribed and discredited.
15. #9 Bravo!
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (12.15.08)
16. Oh yes ! It is our fault
Sagi ,   Israel   (12.15.08)
Our, meaning the world community. 2050, no churches or synogogues. 2060, end of Western society. 2070, Dirham world currency. 2080, total subjugation. 2090, International Sharia court. 2100, end of Humanity. Anyone thinking I am trying to be sarcastic is mistaken. I am deadly serious and totally believe in what I say. I shall not be here, I pity my grandchildren although there is the possibility that The Sword of Islam will determine their fate.
17. Title is correct, everything else is wrong
Palestinian ,   Son of Lydd   (12.15.08)
The whole thing is your fault! When you decided to take away our land and force us out of it, we will fight to get it back, each and every one of us, like it or hate it. Just like you still hate the Nazis for their crimes to you, which stopped 64 years go, we hate you for crimes that started more than 60 years ago, but still going on. Should you decide to abandon your hatred to us and your expansionist mentality and give us our lands back, free our prisoners, and apologize for your crimes, there will be peace. Continued killing will never bring peace to neither of us, it will just bring more violence; didn't you get it by now?!
19. @ No. 17
AJ ,   Raalte   (12.16.08)
Yeah, well, we don't like you a lot either for all your efforts to eradicate the Jewish people out of their ancient, historical en modern homeland. Efforts that have been ongoing non-stop for almost a century now. So, I advise you to suck it up and accept the tiny Jewish state on 0,02% of the Middle East. All the rest you have already and can continue to despoil and make a desert of. You can't have Israel. Full stop! And about the article: it's a stupid and shameful caricature of the truth! Stop infantilizing the Arabs. They are grown-ups and fully responsible for their own horrible choices and excruciating actions!
20. anat saragosti
she ,   toronto,Canada   (12.16.08)
Very well said.So what is the solution?What are you doing to change the situation?Any suggestions to the rest of us?which leaves us with the question,Who do we vote for?.CBC.caSaid we gave back 230 prisoners yesterday...Gilad Shalit?How come he was not part of the deal.The whole thing is sick!Anat,please become prime minister,since you seem to see clearly through the smoke screen.
21. No.17
IJ ,   UK   (12.16.08)
No. 18&19. As an outside observer, I can only say that your comments are filled with hate and contempt, unlike no.17 who offered an argument based on reason. You might not agree with him, but there was an opportunity for reason, debate, a growth in mutual understanding and respect. Yet you ignore his argument completely and simply repeat mantras which come from a religious agenda , without thought to natural justice or the consequence for others who are also loved by God. That is fanaticism. You portray Jews as the civilised ones, but you are the ones here refusing any thought of making peace, only simply insisting on your own agenda and without regard to the cost to others who are not like you. You have a vision of a one race state, carved out of the sufferings and dispossession of others who are different and whom you see as of less worth or value as human beings than you. What is civilised about that? It sounds just like what fanatical Christians did in the Middle Ages when they drove Jews out of their countries or walled them up in ghettos. Sadly you seem only to have learnt the methods, not the lessons. No 17 is certainly the more peaceful, balanced, temperate and genuine seeker for peace. At least he has a programme for reconcilliation; you offer nothing but the complete irradication of your opponents... which is what I guess you would hate Hamas for, only they dont want to destroy Jews only the Zionist State. Extremism offers nothing but unending conflict, generates nothing but hatred and despair, and in the end cuts off its nose to spite its face. So I guess you are another proof of the truth of this article. Moderates of the world rise up !
22. @ no. 20
AJ ,   Raalte   (12.16.08)
Your post clearly shows your ignorence: the early release of the 227 Pal terrorists yesterday was the umpteenth goodwill gesture to Mahmoud Abbas (PLO), not to Hamas which is the terrorist gang that holds Shalit. Yes, Israel has made mistakes, the biggest and most serious one was allowing Arafat and his Tunis thugs to enter territories under Israeli control, and thereby saving him and the PLO from utter extinction, after they sided with Saddam Husein against the hands that fed them (Quwait and SA) , in the vain and naive hope the arch-terrorist had reformed. To call for this blind and IMO self-hating Jew to become PM is just plain silly! And to blame everything that has happened only on Israel is to infantilize the Arabs and their leaders, as if they were children who can't be held accountable for their actions and choices. Grow up!
23. Are the Palestinian Arabs never responsible for anything?
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem   (12.16.08)
Whatever mistakes we have made, and we have many the fact is the unremitting hatred of Jews and Israel is the theme of Palestinian Arab politics always. They bear principal responsibiity for their situation which by the way includes having the support and sympathy of most of the world- and which too has helped spread Anti- Semitism and Jew- hatred throughout the world.
24. Hamas rally our fault
Jonathan ,   Essex, UK   (12.16.08)
Blaming almost everybody for the evil acts of Terorist groups is not a solution to the problem. Yes mistakes have been made, but the way forward is to suggest solutions.
25. #21 not so objective
A real outsider   (12.17.08)
What logic did #17 use? His comment was as riddled with accusations as were #18&19... So please "unbiased" one, explain to me why #17's accusation laden comments are morally above the other two? When everyone's behaving like children but you only single out one group of children it truly begs the question of why? Neither of the three used one fact, save for #20 who pointed out the % of territory the state of Israel has. Much of which was won in defensive wars against invading armies... (48,67,73, those IJ are facts). While I agree with you 67 was initiated by Israel putting thousands of mobilized troops on someone's border (Egypt did that) is an act of agression as I am sure one as sophisticated as yourself agrees. Anyways I'm sure you're sorry for behaving in a brazenly biased way.
26. #21 Go read the PA Charter
Freejew ,   Israel   (12.17.08)
I see ignorance is one of your fortes, so i wouldnt expect you to read the Charter.
27. Don't be racist
daniel   (12.17.08)
The muslim brotherhood was founded somewhere in the 1920's. Do you really think Arabs are such subhumans they could not have introduced this ideology to Palestinians themselves? They need superhuman (white) Jews to do it for them? Stop treating Arabs like children or subhumans. They are capable of everything we are capable of. This includes the spread of ideology. The only thing you have proven with this article is that you are a racist who believes Arabs are incapable of thinking by themselves.
28. #25, I sure am!
Palestinian ,   Son of Lydd   (12.17.08)
Of course I made more sense than the others! I was able to come and say that when you kill and terrorize, don't expect to be hugged and get back peace! It doesn’t need a genius to come up with that. You (the Zionists) want to kill and "crush our ungrateful bones". The article is not only about being racist (which many of you are), it is about who is in control when you are under occupation. Palestinians can't simply do much under your brutal system. It's the ugly truth that you don't even pause and think about any of the crimes committed upon the creation of your state in 1948 over our dead bodies, you just celebrate it as a great achievement without any regard to the ethnic cleansing that took place to clear the way for each and everyone of way to call my home your home. You still want to drive whoever remained out! If you came in peace saying "hey guys, we have some holy places here, let's COEXIST." that would've been a different story. Instead, you wanted the whole thing for you, alone. Nobody with any shred of dignity will ever accept that. One other thing: what I find really odd is how participant from Europe, USA, Australia, and Canada, who just want to obliterate the Palestinians, instead of promoting the coexistence that they are experiencing, where whites, blacks, Chinese, Indians, and others of all religions (even non-religions) are living together in a great deal of harmony. Still, like I said before, there is room for peaceful coexistence, when you start acknowledging that there are others here as well.
Back to article