Opinion
A dangerous victory
Guy Bechor
Published: 12.01.09, 02:09
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31. major miscalculation - will be remembered as trigger event
guy from california ,   southern california   (01.12.09)
the military campaign in gaza is irrational, inefficient and a dis-service to the long-term interests of Israel. Why??? well ... the worldwide political condemnation of Israeli action in the strip, the undermining of fragile alliances with Egypt & Turkey, and the unprecedented american abstention at the UN Security Council will haunt israel for many years to come. Moreover, no clear objective will be achieved by this campaign. (1) Israel's enemies will be emboldened to further militarize and radicalize in fear of israeli military action (2) de-minimus rocket attacks will continue perpetually (there is absolutely no way to stop all rocket attacks - anyone who tells you that rocket attacks can be materially affected is either lying or does not understand asymmetrical warfare. (3) American's will feel increasingly annoyed as israeli action will likely bring their soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan under increased attack and will de-stabilize the attempts on their part to mitigate the recruitment and indoctrination of sympathizers to terrorist organizations. All in all this was campaign was a major strategic blunder and will subject israel (and its neighbors) to more war and turmoil for many years to come.
32. Is it really a "win"? don't think so!
Ahmed ,   Cairo, Egypt   (01.12.09)
I disagree with the view that this is a win. Rockets are still fired & Hamas is still strong. Moreover, the view that this Israeli violence shows how strong Israel is is distorted. Reasonable & calculated violence shows strength, however, extreme brutal violence (like the one Israel is using) reflects weakness and reflects an ailing power. Israel has been losing land and power since 1973, and this cycle was never reversed. This is one thing you should always think of. As for the Arab collective conscienceness argument, this is very true, it will indeed remain. The reason it will remain however is different from what is mentioned, it will not remain because of "fear", it will remain because a whole new generation now realises that it has a responsibility to restore the occupied land. Even those Arabs who used to believe peace is possible with Israel are now realising their new responsibility of fighting agains Israel. The spider web is indeed not true anymore, it's now the spider's last string that Israel is hanging to, and this string is brutality. have a nice day. ahmed
33. Denial is the best indication...
Matthew ,   Memphis, USA   (01.12.09)
As usual, we can see that those who support Hamas are in denial and the uptick in their commenting shows their desparation to turn a blind eye to reality. These are the same people who no doubt believe that the Arabs won the six day war or the yom kippur war for that matter. Everyone knows that Hamas fought like cowards. They hid behind women and children to inflate the civilian death toll, while at the same time they fire rockets indiscriminately to actually kill civilians in Israel. The problem of making peace has always been the insistence of Arabs that they can remove Israel through military force and therefore making peace wasn't truly necessary. Look around Gaza, did Hamas win? Does it look like Hamas defeated Israel? The honest answer is no, and therefore the only way forward is to recognize that terrorism (yes, those that support Hamas, they are the paradigmatic example of terrorists) will not achieve anything.
34. Yes.... the lesson has been learned
Mohammad Assaf ,   Saudi Arabia   (01.12.09)
if you think that Israel can make us afraid by killing children and women then you think wrong the only lesson that we can learn from this war is that we have to make Israel pay this killing back that is to revenge your victory is in boming childs and building.... non of Hamas leaders got hurted and they sill can fire rokets, your Shalit is still in their hands so what kind of virtory you are talking about!!!
35. Please someone bring me my Glasses
Rami Abu Ghalyion ,   Toulkarm-palestine   (01.12.09)
victory? Do you Consider killing of children and destruction of schools and mosques victory? do you consider destruction 1000 of a civilian targets a victory? do u consider killing of 300 fighters from 20,000 which i doubt a victory? frankly, Israel entered into this war without any exit -strategy Take a good look about wts going on in Gaza-strip Hamas is still continuing to fire rockets !! Hamas leaders are still in the Gaza Strip Hamas's popularity on rise among Arabs its a very complex issue If we consider that israel has achived a new victory in Gaza we must facous about wts new in points of this cictory? keep closing the borders with egypt??well the borders are Already closed from long time a go and we all know that wts about tunnels i have read alot about this issue i can says noone can prevents smuggling even egyptians 4 this israel was thinking about digging a water channel theres no new thing and there are now new conditions israel must thinks about practical solution if israel wants eliminate of hamas you must enter to depth of gaza which its realy hard
36. Israeli Baby Killers!
JW ,   Israel   (01.12.09)
Israel has killed so many women and children... The Airforce has dropped over 1000 bombs, but less then 1000 people have been killed. Eh? Wait, does that mean they are being careful? What about the Iraqis who slaughtered 100,000 of their fellow citizens, or the 20,000 civillians killed by papa Assad in Homma? What about Hamas executing a 100s of people the last 2 weeks? What about Hamas killing Fatah children 18 months ago, and shooting people in Shifa Hospital beds? Can it be that Arabs really know who is to blame? Can it be that most Arabs would put a bullet in their heads before living in a Taliban like regime in Gaza? And Gaza is a prison right? Well why do their Arab brothers, the Egyptians, hold the key locked at Rafah? And why did Hamas have to continually fire rockets the last 3 years? What good did it bring? None, as the destruction is clear to all and it is very clear that Hamas-Gaza is dying for truce (literally), but Mashal wont let them. This is the REAL STORY. Anyway, Arab talkbackers, guess what? Israel doesn't need the World to like them. The JEWS HAVE GONE NUTS! Welcome to War with Israel? Want more? Well our Army is ready and prepared to defend our citizens. Remember that next time you talk about fighting Israel - but even you wimps won't do anything. Go fight the Americans in Iraq and get slaughtered, or fight us in Gaza and get slaughtered too. You can probably try to stick with Hizballah, but that would mean giving in to Shiite domination (so support Hizballah at your own risk). Proud to be a JEW.
37. what victory ....Bechor
Palestinian american ,   Cleveland   (01.12.09)
your article reminds me of the Mission accomplished declaration on the USS ship by W. type of feel good stuff . you yet to get through the olive quarter in Gaza city .. . they ll let you in ,get comfi , ,then back in boxes . here in America we say ,: when you look for revenge ,you better dig two graves . you killed their kids ,and they wil do the same . have a better one for you after your self proclaimed , NON deterrent ,fancy ,fire work .. . the only thing on the table SIR is the 1967 line for peace ...not an inch less . forget about the right of return for now . it is easy SIR . 78% of our land ..any of your politicians can make a decision ?????
38. To the Palestinian
Mister Popoff ,   Russia   (01.12.09)
You are just crying and weeping, weeping and crying. Poor palestinian kids get killed! You are NOTHING but a chicken! You shoot from schools and kindergartens, you send women to explode in a crowd. This is your "strategy", this is how you fight. I am father myself, and if my kid suffers from rockets, I will go all the way to break the necks of those who are doing it. I dont care of "your kids", you must care for them. Stop fighting from schools, stop rocketing. This is the best way to bring peace.
39. serious??
AH   (01.12.09)
you think you won? Tell me that you stopped the rockets Tell me that you got Shalit back Tell me that you hold at least one city or camp Tell me that you destroyed hamas's command chain Then tell me that you have won. And even then I won't believe you since we are in the 17th day and objectives are yet to be met. Some powerful army that can't defeat a besieged militia, what will you do when you face a real country?
40. results
aymar ,   ghent belgium   (01.12.09)
the two sides are right,one should put a permanent referee between them including in the west bank
41. what a victory indeed
aymar ,   ghent belgium   (01.12.09)
the machos have killed children,women,aged people and not they think that they have a deterrence image again
42. Looking at the comments of some of the posters
Alex ,   Haifa, Israel.   (01.12.09)
one may conclude that most of the Palastenian women and children weigh 170 lbs, have beards and are armed with AK's and RPG's. Strange.
43. WAR OF LIES
Qaddoumi ,   Palestine   (01.13.09)
Israel loses the war, but as it learned from 2006 war it lies about the soldiers killed and tanks destroyed. also rockets still strikes and the Resistance still strong.
44. #37 Big words from a small person.
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.13.09)
It's really funny to see you with all your big macho talk, while sitting comfortable out in Cleveland. You want us back the the 1967 lines? "Not an inch less"? "Right of return"? Sure, yessir! Your demands are our orders! You showed it to us allright. Dig two graves?? Wow, you sure got us shivering in our boots! Almost as much as we shiver from those ridiculous "revenge" threats from that scared dog Haniyeh. Thanks for the comic relief, doofus.
45. Arabs posters, get it into your head- I S R A E L W O N !
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.13.09)
I know it must be a very hard frog to swallow - realizing that Israel kicked the living daylight out of Hamas. In such cases of frustration and discontempt, one resorts to the only option left, of living in extreme denial. And I'm here to snap you out of this denial, back into the harsh, embarassing reality.
46. #37, really?
Danny   (01.13.09)
You want to show a single credible public statement by a senior member of Hamas or Hizbollah that if Israel were to retreat to the 1967 borders that the two groups would make peace with Israel. Not an "arrangement", not "long term truce", but PEACE. Just one.
47. muslims & james from Chicago
CEK ,   The US of A   (01.13.09)
muslims: You attack Israel for killing women and children yet hamas targets Jewish women and children! When are you ever going to take responsibility for the actions of your people? muslim terrorists kill women and children all over the world on a daily basis!! Don't cry for your hamas human sheilds while you kill babies. I think your false moon god allah would be very displeased with you all! james: another example of the trash that is chicago. I am from Illinois and we downstaters want to get rid of you chicago losers. If you think gazans are such victims, go there and help them. I hope hamas doesn't force you to go to the roof of one of their arms depots to be a human sheild! If they do you will go to hell just like the gov Blago.
48. #31 what utter crap
Danny   (01.13.09)
1) A solid trouncing of Hamas won't "embolden" the enemies of Israel, rather a half-hearted operation will do as will no operation. Notice even with the half-hearted operation in 2006, Hizbollah is staying resolutely silent on the northern border - something they DIDN'T do in 2006. 2) Can you stop every single last rocket? Yes, you can flatten the whole of Gaza and completely seal it off. Can you bring the rockets down to the level where they impose an insignificant cost on Israeli society - yes and quite easily. I remember all the experts on asymmetric warfare saying EXACTLY the same thing about suicide bombers from the West Bank and how of them are there now? I also remember people saying the same thing about Iraq pre-surge and now the death rates in Iraq are way down and Al-Qaeda in Iraq is basically defeated. 3) You think the Taliban need an excuse to attack american troops? You think Al-Qaeda in Iraq or Al-Sadr need a reason? Remember that 911 was plotted whilst there was absolute silence in Gaza and the West bank. How would you suggest that Israel deal with daily rockets on 20% of it's population?
49. to dahl
Palestinian american ,   cleveland   (01.13.09)
you won in Lebanon too ...have fun . you are not worth my time ...just 2 points i will leave you with : this is how people like you think when they live in a 7 miles wide place ,they are so depressed and paranoids..in the summer i will be standing in QalQilia..with my friends on the wall and make sure my spit will reach the sea . remember Dahl ..this is a Muslim Land despite your nose ..when you hear the call for prayer 5 times /day In ASDOUD ...you may blow from anger think about me pal . you will be kicked out ...like all others before you . you might as well start building a statue to president Mubarak in your town .
50. To the Palestinian American - so far you've been kicked out.
Yair ,   Eretz Israel   (01.13.09)
Actually I'm trying hard not to stoop to your level, as you sound like a vile judeophobe. One thing on which I do agree with you is that we should go back to the 1967 borders for peace. But you can go on rambling much as you like, the state of Israel is not going to go anywhere. This was Jewish land long before Islam existed (and by the way it also stemmed from Judaism, just like Christianity). You may blow from anger and you may blow from yourself, but you and your terrorist friends will never kick us from here. Many have tried to kick the Jews' arse, all of them ended up like Hitler. Or Abbas al-Musawi. Or Ahmed Yassin. If you try you'll join them.
51. Total Victory
Ayatollah Ghilmeini ,   Khandahar Orwell   (01.13.09)
How about Hamas does not exist after this? How about they unconditionally surrender and their leaders go into exile? Who cares what they think? Finish them once and for all, they are fascist scum and the only cure for their disease is the same one used on Nazi Germany: complete defeat and unconditional surrender.
52. Arab posters right. Unless we DEFEAT them, we lose.
Shneerhere ,   Chicago   (01.13.09)
The Jews need to learn from Others how to win ...... you utterly smash them, like the US did to Japan and Germany. Anything less than that will be seen by the Islamorons as a 'victory', since if you are an Arab and still breathing, you are the victor. Shame on us for not understanding and aiming for total victory, not this teenage 'oh, goodie we won this round' crap.
53. #8 They have 100%support from the arab world
rachel ,   usa   (01.13.09)
how much more can they get ? Israel is damned if it does ,damned it doesn't so it might has well defend herself completely 100% . When an ennemy its you ....you have to stop him immediately.......
54. Stop with your Occupation Bull ....The ball was in Hamas 's
rachel ,   usa   (01.13.09)
court ....All they had to do is stop sending rockets into Israel....if they hide like cowards behing women and children , its their fault .....
55. #21 where have you been , did you just wake up ?
rachel ,   usa   (01.13.09)
if you don't know what is going on ....don't open your mouth
56. #37 please don't stay in the US...It belongs to the native
rachel ,   usa   (01.14.09)
indian americans.....
57. #49 no no no control your anger ....
rachel ,   usa   (01.14.09)
58. palestinian american
Australian Jew ,   Melbourne Australia   (01.14.09)
If you're a Palestinian 'American', why can't you write in English. It is so apparent why Palestinians and other Muslims hate Israelis. Because the success of Israel forces them to look at themselves, at their totalitarian, dusty, backward societies. They hate what they see, but they are impotent to effect change. For them it is simpler to seek to erase Israel (and the West) so that they will no longer suffer by comparison.
59. israel conditions for a cease fire
p k ,   tempe usa   (01.14.09)
Require Hamas to abandon its charter provision which calls for the elimination of Israel.If it refuses to do so it will show the world why they are nothing but thugs.
60. Has Dr. Bechor ever read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu?
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (01.14.09)
Sun Tzu says that lengthy wars drain the energy and resources of the people. A swift and complete victory and a speedy return is the ultimate way to win the war at hand. Sun Tzu also speaks of "complete victory" meaning that all the soldiers and all the resources of the enemy are dead, used and depleted and drained and empty, whereas you are full. The ideal way to win wars is too see wars coming before they are in existence - that you destroy the plots and plans or alliances before armed conflicts even come into existence. The base of power also involves maximizing your resources - population, loyalty, richness and affluence, economy, education, technology and science, land resources, minimizing costs and expenses, finding long term solutions, permanency and stability and so on. Entrusting international "peace keepers" with the mission of maintaining "peace" in Gaza is stupid and dangerous. UN doesn't care about our security and will surely intervene if we will attack Hamas and our enemies. And UN will not stop anything and will not do anything as it has done in Lebanon. Hizbollah and Nasrallah have more rockets today than before Lebanon War 2. I say: destroy Gaza, expel the Arabs, annex the territory and repopulate it with Jews. End of story. None of this can be found in Dr. Bechor's analysis.
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