Opinion  Sever Plocker
Israel doesn’t want to win
Sever Plocker
Published: 13.01.09, 12:19
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53 Talkbacks for this article
31. Victory
White Phospor   (01.13.09)
Force and honor to our valiant troops. give IDF teh sufficient room and we will dliver to the Gazan beast a deadly blow that the wicked terrorist gangs will remmenber for yers as a painfull blow ! Bomb them all till they surrrender or die. !
32. Well stated
Frederick ,   Jurbise, Belgium   (01.13.09)
very good points made Mr. Plocker. Since no one believes that Hamas will stop its campaign of violence or eternal hatred whether Israel stops or continues its "punishment", shaping its behavior to at least stop being violent is sufficient. Whether they stay in power or not, they need to stop firing missiles.
33. You are so right !
Sharon ,   Israel   (01.13.09)
Sever Plocker: You are so right!!! Does anyone hear you up there in the government? ! We must topple the fascist regime- just like the allies toppled the Nazi regime in the Secon World War !
34. this operation
warda ,   ....   (01.13.09)
lead to cost but who will pay the bill
35. to the auther
sameeha ,   jerusalem   (01.13.09)
sir ... you know nothing about malignancy and the prognosis of malignancy specially when it is distributed and transfered here and there but hamass is not the malignancy itis more difficult to eradicate it is a believe it is in heart of all the people prosted allover the world these days you think it is against israil or against jews or antisemitic but sure it is a believe here and there distributed and transfered simply becouse it is not terror but itis the patience and believe which your cast lead has no patience or god it kills and the same of one bullettto any one it kill only one person as the result of thiswar it kill till now aboutone thousand . but not the believe
36. to 31
fatma ,   rafah   (01.13.09)
surrundere or die .. i think the one who think he will not die or he fear to die his option will be surrender but hamass do not fear death and think evry one will bedead and believe that god is the one who can give the life ... so so soooooo
37. Why is Brain Dead Olmert Still @ the Helm
Zohan ,   Tel Aviv   (01.14.09)
If he doesn't finish Hamas, he's only advocating "news repeats itself " When was the last time Israel incur into Gaza, it wasn't even history yet.
38. Plocker is correct. There is no substitute for winning.
Edward ,   USA   (01.14.09)
Israel must defeat Hamas and fill the vacuum however it pleases. This will send a clear message to Hamas sponsors in Iran and Syria, and, rub Ahmadinejad's nose in the dirt. It will also demonstrate to Nasralla, that the next war with Hezbollah can be prosecuted in the same way.
39. Is victory possible?
Dmitriy Modlin ,   Chicago, USA   (01.14.09)
I do not necessarily agree with one of the opinions expressed in the article. It would be close to impossible to wipe out all of the Hamas leaders. Having killed them, new ones would spring right up.. However, I do agree that trying to negotiate with Hamas and getting them to bend their will to that of Israel is a fruitless pursuit! Israel faces a terrible battle, one to which there is no clear victory.. Perhaps, a partial victory for Israel would be to eliminate as many Hamas members (leaders in particular) as possible, while doing the best to preserve the lives of innocent Palestinians. A greater victory would be to convince the Palestinian people that their enemy is not Israel (which worked very hard to stabilize their economy and improve their livelihood). Palestinian people need to understand that their enemy is Hamas! For as long as Hamas exists and is allowed to hide in between the Palestinian people, both Israely and Palestinian people will suffer (sadly at each-other's hands).
40. #4
(01.14.09)
yes, indeed. hamas won fair and square the initial election in a gaza democratic vote. it would seem that, once they won, they would embark on the venue and path of nation building, looking after their citizens, building infrastructures, building and creating industry and jobs, hospitals, schools with real education rather than violent hate propaganda, etc... once gaza was given to them and israel washed its hands off it, the first missiles appeared on our innocent civilians and continued for 8 long years. the gaza closure didn't come up in the beginning when we left gaza. it came long after, when hamas took over by a violent coup and started the barage of missiles towards israel. this is when the borders closed from israel into gaza. israel knew what will haooen to gaza once hamas took over. just look at their charter and ideology: no acceptance of israel's right to exist, no peace, jihad on all fronts and killing of jews wherever they may be. they were not interested in peace with israel as fateh was. they were interested in terrorising israelis so as to make their lives a living hell for 8 years. what then did hamas expect? israel sitting for 8 years without a single response????? you barrage my home with 8,000 missiles, i am eventually going to respond in the harshest terms possible to protect those around me. this is what israel is now doing and has 100% right to do so under the geneva convention, international law, etc... also, kidnapping gilad shalit was done irresponsibly by hamas against geneva convention and against a sovereign bordering country. the kidnapping took place IN ISRAEL! not outside of it. every country has the right to bring its soldiers home no matter the cost to the enemy and every country has the right to protect its civilians under fire with all the might at their disposal. proportionality doesn't count here. hamas has to learn a lesson it will never forget. it seems to me hizbullah already learned and has no interest to join this war as you know. even though hamas won fair and square, this terror organizaton didn't win the political right to terrorize, inflict rocket damage and kill innocent civilians in a bordering country. the fact they do not recognize oiur country is irrelevant since it is nationally and internationally recognized as a sovreign state all over the world whose borders and civilians must be respected and protected from terror. yes, they won an election. no, they didn't win the right to terrorize and send 8,000 missiles since 2005.
41. israel doesn' want to win-it prefers peace
elliot ,   usa   (01.14.09)
war will end when someone wins --remember amalek and finish him off the bigger war is with ayatollahs
42. Israel an win
Jason Alster ,   Zichron Yacov Israel   (01.14.09)
Great article
43. I don't think
Kay ,   Israel   (01.14.09)
I don't think you are being rational. There is obviously no way Israel could go in to Syria and bomb Damascus whenever he wishes, that would start a war, with Israel being named the instigator. Israel is trying to get the leaders, but they are all in hiding. So they are going from house to house, killing the Hamas and trying to minimize civilian casualties. Will this deter Hamas? nothing will deter them . They are motivated not by a desire to win, but by Jihad and religion.
44. Victory for gaza
fofo ,   Victory gaza   (01.14.09)
if we talk israel is win ! i think that's wrong israel the most loser in this war and we wait to see it Victory for gaza
45. hamas is cancer
alan ,   texas   (01.14.09)
we must treat hamas as a wide spread cancer. First you de-bulk the tumor by killing as many terrorists as possible. Then you reach every other cell with chemotherapy. In this case the "chemotherapy" is the anti-Islam ideology. In other words you must take over their media, camps and schools and fill them with pro-Israel, pro-Jewish ideology. Fight ideas with ideas. Over the generations, that is the best way to combat islamic terrorism. This has never been tried. Its about time it was.
46. Weakened Hamas Maybe Better Than No Hamas
David ,   Las Vegas USA   (01.14.09)
It is easy for a Jew like me with no relatives in the IDF and none living in Israel to advocate fighting hamas until they are all dead. Obviously hamas leaders have minimal regard for their citizens, the leaders almost seem retarded the way they fight this war. I strongly believed until this morning that wiping hamas from the world's touchas is the only way to finish the war. Now after reading about 100 articles and many talkbacks maybe the best solution for Ha'Aretz is to leave a weakened, non-rocket launching hamas in power. Let Abbas and hamas fight between themselves. It seems that us Jews are too preocuppied with hamas to remember how bad it was with Arafat/Abbas in power of Judea/Samaria and Gaza.
47. The following needs to be done:
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (01.14.09)
1) Ehud Olmert, Ehud Barak, Tzipi Livni and Shimon Peres must be tried for High Treason, due to the fact that they have all NEGLECTED ISRAEL'S SECURITY for a very long and extended period of time. Failing to deliver law and order, to stem minorities' violence and hostilities in one's country and failing to deliver safety and security and not wanting to wipe out the enemy that seeks your death must be deemed by all rational normal and sane people as HIGH TREASON. Ehud Olmert, Ehud Barak, Tzipi Livni and Shimon Peres belong in jail and not in power. 2.) Benjamin Netanyahu and Likud need to be in power. 3.) Israel needs to expel the Arab population from Israel, Judea, Samaria and Gaza. 4.) Israel needs to annex Gaza, Judea and Samaria and repopulate Gaza with Jews. 5.) Assassinate and kill every official spokesman or spokeswoman claiming to represent "Palestinians" abroad. 6.) The big fat lie and myth of "Palestine" and "Palestinians" MUST COME TO AN END. The world MUST know that Israel is ONLY Israeli/Jewish proptery and no one else's. 7.) Israel needs a foreign policy and a clear national agenda and a clear view of its national interests and must deploy a ruthless realpolitik. 8.) Israel needs a doctrine that says that "attacking Jews/Israelis inside and outside of Israel, attacking their lives, property, freedom, nationality, ethnicity, religion, individual Jewish/Israeli rights and national Israeli/Jewish rights, and questioning or attacking Israel's right to exist and defending itself and Israel's right to its territory, borders, air space, waters, historical rights to its ancient homeland of Israel, cultural heritage, national, ethnic and religious Jewish/Israeli identity of the Israeli/Jewish people and The State of Israel, and, on top of that, laying claim to any part of Israel, on behalf of other states or peoples, no matter if that part of Israel is internationally recognized by international law and UN or not, all of this, is AN ACT OF WAR AND WILL BE MET WITH WAR."
48. Illegal use of chemical weapons
youwish ,   London, UK   (01.15.09)
From the Times of London :- "Remnants of an Israeli white phosphorus shell, identified by the marking on the outer casing — M825A1 — have been found in the village of Sheikh Ajilin in western Gaza" So war criminals as well as child murderers, well done Israel.....
49. Hamas & Muslims
Natalie ,   Israel   (01.16.09)
To "Victory for Gaza": you can consider Israel the loser if you wish, and Hamas the winner, only one mustn't forget that Hamas does not act in the interests of the Arab people. Just to say (and this is objective knowledge, gathered from a Bedouin woman with relatives in Gaza) that the people there have become much poorer since the beginning of Hamas' reign. It was never like this before, this is what this woman told me. Besides, and I am sure no one talks of this on the Arab street, Bedouin towns and villages have been bombed, and not once, I can even name the places: Rahat, Kseifa, etc. This is how Hamas cares for Muslims. Islam in truth is a peaceful religion, just to say that Jews and Arabs lived for centuries in peaceful neighbourhood together. Hamas has nothing to do with religion, he doesn't love Arabs, otherwise why should it bring such a disaster on Gaza, on the civils, waste all the budget on military weapons, make innocent Jewish and Muslim (Arab, Beduin) civilians its weapon?! LOTS of arab students study in the south of Israel. Does Hamas really think of them? What's with their fate? Hamas, this is what I think, has nothing to do with Islam. Killing innocents is immoral. God didn't create them for them to die like dogs.
50. to Unlike the US and Israel
Same one, Natalie ,   Israel   (01.16.09)
Tova, Your name means "good" in Hebrew, by the way. As towards what you say, yes Hamas did use the Democratic system to get to power. Doesn't it remind anything from History? Hitler? The people voted for Hamas because they were tired of Fatah's corruption and lack of order, and hoped for a change. Surely they never thought what poverty and misery they are bringing upon themselves! This "strong" regime of Hamas is built on fear, scaring those who stand in opposition, and it hasn't brought prosperity in the least.
51. to # 48 clown
Ed ,   Mexico   (01.17.09)
don't make me laugh, britain has been the most oppresive government towards other countries. you occupied israel many times before it was created, yo occupy northern ireland, scotland, and many more. you slaughtered peaceful indians when they objected your occupation of their country on the other side of the world. bravo to you! the fact is, you antisemites just hate when jews defend ourselves, in israel and elsewhere, so take your condemnations to your parents and grandparents, yeah man, your whole country.
52. to natalie on # 49, and to you all
Ed ,   Mexico   (01.17.09)
i think it would be hard to enounce hamas' true intentions in a nutshell better than you did. unfortunately fanatics blindly believe in whats to come rather than whats going on in reality, on the ground. their sole purpose is to bring and end to the jewish state, that's it, there's nothing else that matters. i say when israel pulled out from the gaza strip, among many things, "this is now your territory, it's your responsibility", gaza must be treated as a hostile entity, just as many others in the world towards their neighbours. but it seems to me that when it comes down to jews, the world is not convinced that we a have a right to protect our very well being and tranquility, not to mention our lives. it took the world 2000 years to make the jewish people into warriors, and even now that it is a reality, we don't ambition territorial expansion as most other civilizations did when they got their own countries. they made their own choice, now they get waht they get.
53. HOW TO WIN
PAUL GUREVICH ,   NEW YORK, USA   (07.25.09)
THE ARTICLE IS RIGHT ON, BUT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH. ISRAEL MUST COMPLETELY STOP GAZA SMUGGLING BY TAKING BACK THE PHILADELPHI CORRIDOR, EVEN IF IT MEANS WAR WITH EGYPT. THEY (THE EGYPTIANS) HAVE BEEN PLAYING A DOUBLE GAME FOR YEARS, AND ISRAEL IS TOO STUPID TO SEE IT. THERE IS NO WAY THAT TUNNELS FROM EGYPT INTO GAZA COULD BE BUILT WITHOUT EGYPTIAN COMPLICITY.
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