What about Judaism?
Yael Mishali
Published: 29.01.09, 18:35
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1. it makes me seek reading her
why translate her?   (01.29.09)
2. It seems she's trying to make some point..not sure what itis
I am understanding only in the last paragraph that she doesn't like the settlers or ultra-Orthodox to represent Judaism ("abandoning the Jewish State" does express some strong opinion). So she feels strongly about her Judaism...somehow. She would like the political figures of secular parties to express this...somehow. Outside of halacha and tradition, the only thing that's left for the few trembling leaves clinging to some branch of Judaism is some nebulous undefinable warm and fuzzy feeling at best. How is she expecting the politicians to do what she herself cannot?
3. Secular Judaism Is An Oxymoron... Moron
4. Some clarification.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (01.29.09)
The author would have been clearer had she asked a different question. Is this a Jewish State or is this a State of the Jews? If this is a Jewish State, than we are talking about Judaism the religion. If this is a State of the Jews, than we are talking about Jewish the nationality or ethnic group. The reality is that we ourselves are quite confused as to how these two ideas can be separated or even if they can be separated. Is there something called an Israeli nationality separate from Jewishness? I would agree that our political elite is most uncomfortable discussing Jewishness. In effect, they have abandoned the State's connexion to Judaism to the Haredim & the state's connexion to Jewish peoplehood to some bizarre idea of secular Israeli nationality. I personally think this is a dead-end.
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (01.29.09)
Lets start by the name of our country:It means us;it means our forefather Jacob,the father of the 12 Jewish tribes;it means nobody else than US! And what about our flag? There stands the Magen David,and all of what it symbolizes,all what we have been longing for. What is the Jewish character of Israel? All that implies us,starting by our Torah. When I went to the Cinemateca in Yerushalaim,it was missing the Mezuzas in the doors.I was shocked! I started asking to the staff WHY was IT missing?!(I hope now they have fixed the problem). I am proud to enter every place in Israel and see the Mezuzah. I am happy in every university there is a Sinagogue(well ,many times empty). I am happy to talk to a Jewish bus driver,know we share the same culture,know we are the same. Schools should teach Torah;should teach Jewish history,Jewish culture in all its aspects.Our curriculum should be based in what ISRAEL NEEDS,in all aspects-from economical through spiritual,not what is applyed else where. We should rid ourselves of what is strange to our culture,what means idols,what means unethical examples... We have the whole Tanach at our disposition;we have the Ethics of the Fathers;we have the proverbs of King Salomon...We have such precious material ,just waiting to be dressed in a more modern comunication way ,according to the times we are living. So many things means us.We just must go deep into any cell of our beings to find ourselves,but HERE,in our selves,in our souls,in our hearts-our own and nobody else's. And,as long as we deep ourselves in our own selves,strangers in our land will feel exactly what they are -strangers-,and will go. We do not have to fear we are different,because we indeed are. And being Jewish is the most precious gift (and responsability)one can have.We are the luckiest ones;it is just missing recognize this fact ourselves and follow the path we are meant to. I deeply feel so.
6. What about Judaism? end
the Prophet ,   Ouar   (01.29.09)
7. A few more examples...
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (01.29.09)
In Europe,there were Jewish theaters,playing our histories...Why not more of that in Israel? What we see is Besalel playing against us to the whole world to see... What we see is an Amos Gitai ,whose works ,despite being very talented,go against us and in the side of enemies.And so many more examples. There should be a more Yidish counterpart,an art going more into the best of us in spiritual and cultural terms... What we see(at least what I have seen)is a dramatic art ,or leading to Israeli suffering for wars or a gay art,or too much sex art,or the arab/Jews problematic tranformed in "art"...
8. #4 Terry
David ,   USA, exile   (01.29.09)
You asked, "Is there something called an Israeli Nationality separate from Jewishness? The answer is YES! But it has been lost for 2729 years. It was called the Northern Kingdom or the House of Ysra'el as separate from the House of Yhudea. The Prophets say they will reappear in the final days and be joined again as one stick in the Hand of HaShem. There are stirrings today. Ephraim is awakening to their true identity They are the answer to your population problem. When we stop fighting amongst ourselves and embrace as brothers then Esav will be overwhelmed and Amalak will cease to be. You say I am crazy? Ok, I am patient. David, Tribe of Dan.
9. Judaism
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (01.30.09)
The author said " “Not everything is orange and not everything is black,” a Kadima online banner says, referring to the settlers and ultra-Orthodox, respectively. Really? So what else is out there? This paragraph shows how troubled rightists are. They are not after knowledge, but certainty, thats why they chose to believe in 2500 years old myths, it provides them with easy and certain answers. Consequently, with this absurd certainty comes the schizophrenic behaviour which we see on tv either from Hamas or the ultra-Orthodox jews the author mentioned in his article. Finally, Voltaire got it right when he said "As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities".
10. Terry
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (01.30.09)
"I would agree that our political elite is most uncomfortable discussing Jewishness. In effect, they have abandoned the State's connexion to Judaism to the Haredim & the state's connexion to Jewish peoplehood to some bizarre idea of secular Israeli nationality. I personally think this is a dead-end." Yes,I think here in your statement is the key to resolv the problem,only being that the " bizarre idea of secular Israeli nationality"is a junk concept,while Judaism is an eternal one and should be shared by all"Jewish peoplehood "as you call.
11. Your are right #9
Smith   (01.30.09)
They a lot of people who believe in another myth who come from this old myths and even worse, this new myth bring correction and tell now that it's the real true and attack the old myth...This is nut!!! This new myth begin with the letter "I", try to find to other letters (there is 4 others letter to find) "As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities" Indeed
12. false assumptions
Michael ,   Haifa   (01.30.09)
The writer assumes that my perceptions of Judaism will influence my attitude to the composition of rabbinical courts and the role of the IDF chief Rabbi. My perceptions towards a decent humanistic society do not include such courts or roles.
13. Jewish worldview?
observer   (01.30.09)
world wide Jews can't practice racism except in a Jewish state.
14. Brilliant article
Yosef ,   Jerusalem, Israel.   (01.30.09)
People, her point isn't what Judaism is; it's that we need an opinion. Israel's lack of surety in it's moral position is because it doesn't have a decisive position. What are, State Of Israel? And if you are trying to get me to vote for you - well, drop the fluff, and tell me clearly - what are your principles? Not vague fuzzy ones "human rights" "pluralism" "patriotism". How about I believe ____________ because of _______ and I'll stand by that. No world opinion or domestic pressure will change that. That - principles - real ones, you believe in - are the absolute foundation for leadership, and are the reason that our leadership is bankrupt. What, exactly, precisely, do you believe in?
15. iam confused but i will try
y ,   jerusalem   (01.30.09)
jews must be under god rule or world rule if they are under world rule why they did not obey the un rules used the american vito evry now and then but if they want to be under god rule they will be in hell so you can agree or vote but let us as another people to vote .. we must vote god rule not any other only if the world rule or the un can do its job under god rule of justice . many time isaid the palastinians who protect israil as they are not suicide bombers but they suport and i think it is the rule of god about jihad when the world rule help to be superior of god rule to kill the children in the name of un or admire the power only the power so may i said iam ahmad and my big bomb is in my box it is the ghol that one is saying about the people or the people children or women or trees or stones or the heaven israil want to shoot god to be in the right point but god is between people but religen is the same justice
16. to #9 an#11
Texas ,   US   (01.30.09)
No, atrocities where commited by you, non-religius, by Stalin, by Lenin, by Hitler, by Mao.... How many more do you need?
17. #9, &#11 are wrong
Brad ,   USA   (01.30.09)
Your 2500 year old myth goes back about 6000 years, and it's no myth. When you reject the truth, you will fall for anything, and end up beheading people, and putting it on the internet. Sound familiar?
18. To #11, #16 and #17
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (01.31.09)
To #11: Obviously you have not read my talkback otherwise you would have noticed that i mentioned both Hamas and the ultra-Orthodox jews. To #16: the dictators that you have mentioned were not driven by their "atheism" when they commited their atrocities, while Jews and Muslims commited atrocities because they are obeying their delusional G-d, and they both admit it , you can hear it and see it on TV. To #17: If its a 6000 years old you make it even worse! and which truth are you talking about? remember there is facts in this life, only interpretations. Finally, who would end up beheading people, a non believer or someone believes in an angry G-d who tortures and burns people alive, a G-d who ordered Moses to stone a couple just because they made love!
19. walls
attal ,   france paris   (01.31.09)
Something remains always present in judaic history : to build walls.... Antic Jerusalem was inside walls ,after temple destruction the rabbis built invisble walls withs thousands rules whith the Talmud to prevent to mix with Goyim, after the ghettos was surrounded by walls; nazis camps were delimited by walls ,barbed wires and miradors. Now Israel built Wall against terrorists along the green line (1967 boarder) tomorrow may be an other wall to block tunnels on philadelphy road ...after all we can pray facing the wall kotel
20. Muhammad #18
Brad ,   USA   (01.31.09)
If there are only "interpretations" in this life, then what makes you think that what you say is actually true? And, what makes you think that you really said it? Anyway, God had to remove the sin from Israel so it would not spread and destroy them all. He cannot, and will not tolerate it. Tolerating sin would violate his perfect nature. Jesus Christ has destroyed sin and death. It's only a matter of time before the rescue operation going on now will end. Then He will reign forever in the sight of men who have recieved Him.
21. #9 Yalk about hamas, better yet go back to Jordan
no palestinians   (01.31.09)
22. Let's do this with our State
Vered, Israel   (01.31.09)
Let's celebrate our Jewish religion up to the point of being under the control of Orthodox rabbis. (the Orthodox of course are free to accept whatever authorities they choose) For instance, let's not work on Shabbat, but let's open our umbrellas, fully aware that that's not erecting a "tent". . Let's believe G-d gave us this land. Let's eat chicken and milk, and stop doing mental gymnastics to equate chicken with cows who produce milk. Let's pray to Hashem to feel close, not saying the same dang thing three times a day whether we want to or not. Etc., etc., etc. In other words, let's get rid of 90% of halacha that has knocked the life out of every single mitzvah with it's un-called for precision. It's called bringing the LIFE back into the religion, meant to be practiced in this land. Let's take it back from the rabbis who created Galut Judaism, where you need to put your shoes on in a certain order. We can do it! We are Israeli!
23. Brad #20
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (01.31.09)
Socrates once said "True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing". and i admit that i can't be %100 sure that what i am saying is actully true, and this is the main difference between us. When i form an opinion or a view i remind my self that i have very limited knowledge, and that reality is subjective to a large extent. I am also aware of relativism and how it shaps people views and beliefs, thats why i dont kill others who disagree with me. However, theists believe that they got the answers for all the complicated questions about the world and the universe, they simply chose the easy way which is to follow what their parents washed their brains with. As a result, our world is full of radicals, who dont read (why should you read if you have the whole truth in one book?) and who has been taught not to question, just to follow. Finally, doubt is uncomfortable but certainty is rediculouse!
24. No Livni Prime Minister
rabbis toveem   (01.31.09)
Tzipi Livni is not qualified to become Prime Minister of Israel. She is misguided and does not understand the needs of the Israeli public. As Mr. Benny Begin says "'The foreign minister bears responsibility for [Security Council] Resolution 1701, in which she takes great pride. Under the auspices of Resolution 1701, Hezbollah has tripled the number of warheads in its possession,'". Ms. Livni's misguided ways have brought death and heartbreak to Israeli famililes.She does not deserve the trust of Israelis and will bring destruction to Israel with her vision for a Palestinian nation.
25. 23, Mohammad, Jordan: Error In Your Thinking
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.01.09)
"However, theists believe that they got the answers for all the complicated questions about the world and the universe, they simply chose the easy way which is to follow what their parents washed their brains with." My parents were both Christians. I was born Christian, went to the same elite private Christian boarding school to which Billy Graham and evangelists and missionaries all over the world sent their kids; even became a Baptist preacher. However, I kept searching for better answers; which eventually led to me rejecting Christianity to follow Torah. More than one proof by disproof (reduction ad absurdum) can prove your reasoning is in error, but, since the fallacy of unjustified induction (generalizations) is pretty common knowledge, I think you'll acknowledge that such generalizations are a logical fallacy and unwarranted? I agree with, and commend, you about being tolerant of those with whom we disagree. We must be able to keep intellectual war in the intellectual theater... not resorting to kill those who expose our intellectual errors. As for reading, have you absorbed the significant and essential information relevant to the issue of the historical aspects of our major three theologies in our website? If not, then is it not hypocritical to chide Brad for his same failure to deal with this information. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
26. Muhammad
Brad ,   USA   (02.01.09)
Well then, Socrates, (out of his own mouth) must have known nothing. Why then, would we believe him? Look Muhammad, I believe what the Bible says based on the evidence. Namely, predictive prophecy coming to pass in detail, hundreds or even thousands of years after it was written. I don't know everything about it, but I know enough to know that I can trust it in the things I can't verify. Why? Because it has proven itself reliable in the things I can verify. Plus, Jesus Christ turned me around, from death and hell to life and joy. He made these available to everyone, if they will recieve Him. He is real. Everything else is just religion.
27. #25 Paqid
David ,   USA, exile   (02.01.09)
Have you abandoned your faith in Mashiach to follow Torah? If so, it is an oxymoron. Mashiach is the giver of Torah and is Himself the Living Torah. If you have abandoned Him, you have abandoned Torah, not joined yourself to it. But, who am I to teach you? You are the Paqid.
28. Muhammad - peace
Hila ,   Tel Aviv   (02.01.09)
Hi, I'm writing to you because you seem open-minded and I appreciate that. I will tell you what I think: our country as we know it, is very young and the questions and challenges we have are not easy. There are radicals which hold a black/white view of the world, and then there's plenty of shades of gray. Here's my personal opinion. I believe in G. and the Torah. But if you ask me whether I would give some of the land if I knew that it would bring peace, I would say yes. And if I didn't know for sure but thought there is chance that it will bring peace, still, I would say yes. Why? Because G. loves peace above everything. G. has promised us this land and I believe it will happen. How that will happen and what will be the borders exactly, nobody knows. Anyone busy predicting a future of doom are just manipulating the masses... usually for their own benefit, because they consolidate their own power this way, be it religious or political. But it's very simple in my opinion: if it is wrong for us to give land now, I believe G. will still help us in the long run, because he cannot punish us for believing in peace.
29. In the Replay Judahism lost to Zionism
RJBH ,   Methil   (02.01.09)
Net Result is Judahism will be loathed as much as Zionism.
30. To #25, #26, and #28
Mohammad ,   Jordan   (02.02.09)
To #25: Its quite interesting that you are telling me about logical fallacies and at the same time,beleive in a stick that converts to a snake or split the sea!! I admit that i should have started some of my sentences with the word "most" to avoid generalization. I will find sometime to check the info in your website, thanks for the invitation. To Brad #26: I respect your beliefs but please don't tell me that its based on evidence, it actually contradicts with the scientific evidence. Telling me about your faith is like giving me a torch to find an honest person, i would not be able to understand unless i feel it myself. To #28: Thanks for the nice words, talking to people like you makes me regain hope that peace is still achievable.
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