Opinion
Clear and present danger
Leon Deouell
Published: 05.02.09, 00:45
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1. Professor, before you get all hot and bothered,
bob ,   potomac usa   (02.05.09)
Please remember, that a democracy need not have its suicide written into its structure by allowing those who would over turn it by violence to run rampant. If certain MKs are not loyal, if certain MKs would like to see the country turn into a phony bi-national state--the next strep before becoming another Lebanon--i.e., a march toward Islmic supremcy, then those MKs should be sent packing.
2. loyalty
colin   (02.05.09)
This professer really hates the ideas of Israel Beitinue He thinks Lieberman is a rogue Professer of words that mean nothing Twisted phases to attempt to promote his freedom Democracy is hard. When the majority decides those who strike against are the DISLOYAL Loyalty is respect. This proffeser has none and am sure gets non
3. The real ugly nature of israel
Sami H ,   Gaza   (02.05.09)
As a palestinian i hope Yisrael Beiteinu and its leader win the election . Why? The real ugly face of israel will be very clear to the arabs and to the rest of the world.
4. clear and present danger
simion ,   irvine, us   (02.05.09)
I was wondering if "esteemed" professor can address the issue of clear and present danger to Israel's existence. Or he is too much in the denial of this REAL Clear and Present danger?
5. Yes and no
Danny   (02.05.09)
Every country has a line beyond which you are simply a traitor - i think that most of the balad MKs comfortably crossed that line. Also there should be consequences for spreading out and out lies about the state, especially when it is used to delegitimise the state. Ever wondered where the claims that Gaza was still occupied came from? That's right an Israeli "human rights" group. Ever wondered what the SOLE "evidence" for "millions of cluster bombs" in South Lebanon, that's right an Israeli journalist quoting hearsay - incidently nearly three years later despite a massive demining operation less than 200,000 were found. So i would say allow a democracy but strengthen libel and treachery laws.
6. The professor is a fearmonger
Steven ,   San Francisco   (02.05.09)
I ask the professor why shouldn't there be a minimum of loyalty among the citizens? Why shouldn't traitors and those who seek to harm the country be imprisoned or expelled? This is natural law for the survival of any country (it seems to my non-psychologist brain.)
7. creeping judaean fascism
avramele   (02.05.09)
oy, first the arabs, then the leftist Jews, then gays, then the laborites, then centrists and then the principled democratic conservatives...then the courts and then the press and after that no one of decency will be left chaval aleinu!
8. Minorities aren't the only ones with democratic rights
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (02.05.09)
A minority is allowed many basic rights in a democracy within the basic principles of the state. But there is no basic right for a minority to say that it disagrees with with the basic reason why a state exists and will support groups that will seek to destroy it. Minorities may claim the same rights as the majority and even special protections from the will of the majority, and the majority is bound to provide these by the basic law of democracy; but the minority MAY NOT demand that the majority submit to their will or the will of any other state. Minorities have rights which the majority is obligated to protect, but majorities also have rights, more rights than minorites (that's the basic premise of democracy) and minorities are bound to respect those as well
9. Democracy is killing Europe ...
martin knopfman ,   Tel Aviv   (02.05.09)
Much of Europe must now decide between Democracy and Islam! Belgium has gone, Holland has pretty much gone, Norway has gone, Sweden and Switzerland are on the way. Paris and London and many other cities looks like Arab ones. Do the Arabs in Umm al-Fahm respect democracy? No! They want to prevent and Israeli from entering 'their' town which Bibi and Lieberman will hopefully soon put on the other side of the border. As far as I'm concerned the golden calf of democracy can be slaughtered. Mike
10. Here's a question for psychologist Deouell.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (02.05.09)
What psychological problems would you associate with delusional leftist ideas? Would he consider a lack of common sense a psychological problem? Is leftist hysteria a symptom of an underlying mental condition? With what do you associate a lack of reality contact, an inability to examine evidence, & a belief in unsupported assumptions? Lieberman is not the boogeyman - he's an Israeli politician with a point of view & there is nothing particularly extremist in his ideas. All things considered, he is far, far less extreme than his leftist critics. Lieberman's concerns are a sane response to a real situation while those that hide behind liberal slogans & refuse to see reality are perhaps much less sane.
11. Such as U RAPE this country for 50 yr., & now U feeling time
Bob   (02.05.09)
to come get answer for this...It's realy nice to see how BIG your fear, becouse U know & (surprise) Everybody in Israel know, that almost all problem in country becouse before U have unquestionable power over the PEOPLE...
12. But locking up 14 year girls for protetesting is OK?
Ilan ,   Ariel   (02.05.09)
I don't like Lieberman or his tactics, but he calls for much less than what our government has already done to people on the right. There is no danger that Israeli Arabs will get turned out of their homes en masse and made refugees with no one worrying for their ability to reestablish their lives and find work as what happened to the Israelis in Gush Katif. That will never happen Lieberman or not. So let's say I'm a bit disgusted with all this moral preening from our fascist leftists about the threat to democracy from Lieberman.
13. Irony
EM ,   Ra'anana   (02.05.09)
Excellent (and frightening) article. In addition to the slippery slope...Lieberman is under investigations for serious financial fraud...all of which do not phase his supporters, many of whom point at Olmert's corruption as proof of his inability to lead. Hypocrites! I too am afraid of all the implications of Lieberman's message...which ironically brings us closer to the nature of the rest of the countries in this region.
14. hmmmn. I have no fear of this at all,....
Brian ,   Mashabei Sade Israel   (02.05.09)
....I wonder why? Hmnnn, maybe it's because I have an undying love and loyalty to this nation, I wonder why the author is so concerned. If I was spied on all day everyday, all they would find is that I am completely dedicated to Israel.
15. DEJA VU
daniel ,   jerusalem israel   (02.05.09)
The original arguement sounds like Israel after Rabin was killed. Any right wing comments were repported to the police and investigated. Remember the barber who was arrested for ant-left wing comments. danny
16. Leon Deouell - elitist academician at large
Fedup   (02.05.09)
We must continue to listen to our elitist left-wing intellectuals - after all, they brought us most of what happened in the 20th century! Anyway we don't have much choice as they work hand-in-hand with the elitist left-wing journalists in all media.
17. #7, we haven't even started with the arabs
Danny   (02.05.09)
who sold information to Hizbollah like Bishara so I wouldn't be staying up worrying about the knock on the door. PS Try selling sensitive information to an enemy in any other country. In the US you have the death sentence for this.
18. #3 Sami-Palestinian terrorists are the ones with the UGLY fa
Sharona   (02.05.09)
Look in the mirror-YOU and your ilk are the ugly faces all over the world!
19. #3 Sami, Gaza. Go look in the mirror first.
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (02.05.09)
Your society would do well to take a look in the mirror before talking about anyone else. Just make sure it's an Islamic mirror.
20. Deouell and Um el Faham
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (02.05.09)
Deouell can twists facts and words to prove anything he wants. The problem is that reality is different, as we see in Um El Faham. The people of Um El Faham gladly accept huge transfer payments and pay almost no taxes. At the same time, they illegally threaten a person based on his racial background, apparently because they want to cheat on the election results. All that Lieberman is saying is that if the people of Um El Faham don't want to follow the laws, they won't get taxpayers money.
21. nonsense
avrom ,   bet shemesh   (02.05.09)
people who have no respect for tolerant liberal universal human values are not entitled to certain rights such as voting and citizzenship which they will then use to undermine the rights of others for example if you do not believe in democracy you are not entitled to a vote with which you will remove democracy from others
22. Oh, the boogyman is coming ......
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (02.05.09)
The strangest thing about Leftists is that they ignore real threats & focus their hysteria on those that might do something about the real threats. The Left likes imaginary threats much more than it likes facing reality. Anyone who challenges the politically correct assumptions of the Left is immediately demonized & turned into the boogyman with exaggerated hysterical smear tactics. The old boogyman around here was Netanyahu who is actually quite the moderate. Lieberman is the new boogyman. Oddly enough, there are lots of real boogymen out there - Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Assad, etc. or our assortment of Fifth Columnists seeking to undermine our country, but of course, those threats are generally ignored.
23. Lieberman dangerous? not much than olmert :)
atilla karagözoğlu   (02.05.09)
24. Post election, Liberman will become another puppet of Bagatz
Tomer ,   Herzeliyya   (02.05.09)
He will be used to implement more of Bagatz's Oslo and Itnatkut suicide policies. Like Bibi, Sharon and Olmert before, he WILL do as they say to avoid going to Jail. Our country's democracy is like that of Russia or Turkey - a joke.
25. Not a boogeyman
EM ,   Ra'anana   (02.05.09)
The professor very clearly pointed out the danger of Lieberman's demagoguery to all our society - yet the negative tb's missed the point. Lieberman's interpretation of loyalty may seem 'narrow' right now (only 'bad' Arabs) ...but if given the chance, and history proves the point, his kind of government grows more paranoid with power. A government in a democracy is not in power to protect itself...but rather to protect its citizens...ALL of them. Even the ones who criticize it. Even traitors are put on trial and if proven guilty..they are punished, but they do NOT lose their citizenship (i.e basic rights). Lieberman is NOT a boogeyman )...he is a serious threat to the freedom that we all enjoy. Left and Right freedom.
26. Clear and present danger
Paul ,   Israel   (02.05.09)
I will agree with you when everything you said applies as equally to the right wing as to the left wing. Even now the right wing is persecuted for actions and speach that the left wing gets praise for. Israel today does not yet have freedom of speach, expression, and freedom to demonstrate, that is as equal for the right wing as for the left wing.
27. Henny Penny redux
Gideon Reader   (02.05.09)
The mere hyperventilating and frantic circling run of this "educated" nitwit is reason enough to want; to hope for the fresh change that Avigdor Liberman will bring to any ministry in the forthcoming rejectionary out sweeping of the kakistocratic, political malpracticing alleged government of Kadima-Labor. Interior or possible Security would be excellent, however in order to really have a longer lasting impact, Education would be good choices. Bibi's dance with Barak is worrison. The man (Barak) is fatally flawed and tainted with a broad stripe of rabid scarlet socialism. Ya'alon would do the job quite well and present a sober; not foolish mouth running example of what the DefMin should be. The cleart and present danger is from the left who refuse to realize that their personal and actual world view has left their Bolsheviekism behind and that their hanging on making believe that if everyone locked arms and sang the "Internationale" everything would be well. To find a really stupid person you must go the the Universities and look at the employment rolls.
28. Makes me wish I could vote for Yisrael Beiteinu
Neil ,   USA   (02.05.09)
But I can't. This is such left wing propaganda. No real evidence, just conjecture about Lieberman's bad intentions. Somehow Lieberman's perfectly rational platform of trying to prevent seditious persons from gaining the rights and power of citizenship is tuned into an attack on people who supported Oslo and peace. I support peace, I supported Oslo (wrongly) and I support Lieberman because he says things that are politically incorrect but that most reasonable and informed people know to be true in their hearts. It is so typical of people on the left to portray people on the right whom they disagree with as racist or fascist. If this type of ridiculous thinking permeates Israeli society, Israel will be finished. A person can only bend over backwards so far before they break their own back
29. Have you all lost your minds?
Etty ,   Toronto, Canada   (02.05.09)
Arab MKs openly admit their goal is to fight Israel from within. Why are Israelis willing to commit suicide to appease those that would slice your throats in a heartbeat, given the chance?
30. Congratulations, Profesor Deouell,
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (02.05.09)
as a neuroscientist and university staff member for getting involved in a political discussion and warning us of the perils of allowing Avigdor Lieberman to gain a modicum of power in modern day Israel. As you say, a democratic system is one of the highlights of our state. Just a few questions, Professor: 1) Have you ever spoken out about the blatant discrimination in the social sciences at the university level against students and potential staff members who do not accept the politically correct academic liberal power establishment views or is it only when your own privileges are being threatened do you publish out of your field? 2) Have you ever criticized the self-serving Israeli supreme court system which perpetuates itself through the naming and assigning its own successors without need of obtaining permission from the democratically elected Knesset? 3)Has the overwhelming leftwing liberal anti-Israel bias of the professional media ever caught your attention and, if it has, has it ever bothered you? I suspect, of course, that the real reason for your indignation and concerns is your fear of your loss of privileges of nearly absolute institutional power, Professor. And naturally, just such a published opinion piece (far from your area of expertise) will undoubtedly endear you to the academic establishment and hasten your promotion to full professor. As for me, I like the way Avigdor Lieberman appeals to the disenfranchised and the dispossessed and to Lieberman's intent to see that the survival of Israel is foremost in government plans and that his democratic platform includes the proposal of "no national insurance for no national service." That proposal is meant for all Israelis including, but not limited to, our Arab Moslem citizens.
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