and how it has drastically increased due to the jewish wish to create a state there. these are not my figures & i wasn't interested in looking at jewish sites. there has been a higher rate of jewish immigration then the arab immigration, and an illegal immigration to israel during the mandate but it doesn't mean there was no arab immigration , one has to be a fool to think these immigrations by two different nations are mutually exclusive thing is most jews don't claim they were here before 1948, even though jews preceded arabs, but most arabs claim they have been here for centuries THIS ARAB CLAIM IS FALSE the brits withdrew their promises due to arab world pressure. they even kept 11000 jews imprisoned in cyprus even after the jewish state was declared!!!!! you should do some reading, man the jewish immigration of 1948 till 1952 consisted of almost a million jewish immigrants from arab countries, whose lives were made intolerable, because israel was at war with it's neighbouring arab countries. i don't see any arab apologizing for living in the houses jews left behind, do you? these jews lived here under terrible conditions in their first years, in tents etc. but they were made citizens. israel was gasping under the weight of this immigration due to lack of infrastructure housing etc. and many were uneducated new comers, but they were still citizens why are there palestinian refugees still? why won't they be made citizens of the countries they are in? what is the matter with arab countries, who talk about israeli tolerance towards it's arabs, when they can’t grant citizenship to their brothers? these arab refugees have relatives who live in those arab countries for centuries, what's the matter with them people?

educated explenations on this site from readers, to the wide spead false assumptions you post. assumptions based on brab innacurate propaganda even in their sites about population in palestine, all they talk about is how the jewish population has increased, reverting attention to the jews, but still, the figures for the arabs are there, one just has to look

We can continue arguments with fact and counter facts forever without an outcome. I am not a Palestinian attorney and Israeli prosecutor. I am just convinced that a lot of injustice and unsupportable sufferance is going on that part of Globe. The real fact is, you, the Israeli are there and the Palestinian as well are there, and being fighting so far for 60 years, none of you could get ride of the other. It s the time to stop all this circle around violence and think out of the box (the boxes here are the Quran and Torah) and have dynamic way of thinking. Extremism from one side will create more extremism from the other side. Compromise needed not a depressing demagogy and not just being rightful and truthful in all. Good luck with peace hope

"massive immigration" of Jews started in the 30s. To appease the Arabs who rioted, the British BANNED Jewish immigration in 1940 - just in time for the reason Zionism existed to be shown. The British maintained that ban until 1948 when they left. There was no "massive immigration" from Europe post 1948 - except from Russia in the 90s - for the simple reason most of the European Jews were dead. Where there was "massive immigration" was from Arab countries where despite "Never having problems in all history" they all left their homes - in my family's case a home of thousands of years - to come to live in tents in Israel. Isn't wierd after centuries of hugging and kissing those Jews just left. Almost like you are simply lying about the status of Jews in these countries...

to work against the Palestinian narrative. If anything it is the Zionist narrative that has been undermined over the years.

Danny, No it is not a BIT late - it is VERY late, perhaps perilously so. But the alternative is surrender. So while you are quite correct that "it is the Zionist narrative that has been undermined over the years", the time has come to "dis-undermine" it as perhaps George Bush might express it. And the sooner the better. Or is that ""mis-undermine"??

Let me know how i can help. Cheers

Aonde esta Avraham? Aonde esta Moshe - quando todos nos precisam-os tanto? Where is Avraham, where is Moshe, now when we need them most?

You say :”.. Israel has a right to the land won in 1967, ..” I agree. WHY should Israel again take back the land of an independent West Bank in a future war ? And killing tens of thousands of civilians in the process. IT doesn’t make ANY sense ! Israel ALREADY recovered Judea & Samaria (i.e. the West Bank) in 1967 -- there is NO need to do it again in a future war. BTW those West Bank Arabs who want to live under Israeli rule, those West Bank Arabs who want to live peacefully, side by side with Jews, can remain in the West Bank. IF NOT -- they can MOVE OVER to their Homeland called the Kingdom of Jordan, which was especially created for the Arabs of Palestine in May 1946.

You say :” i am tired of writing this ..” It is tiresome. Historical FACTS should be presented repeatedly -- so as to DEFEAT those who give a WRONG picture of history, so as to DEFEAT those who present lies. Thieves and criminals use their intelligence -- to come up with lies, to DISTORT historical facts. So #55, as soon as they present their distortion -- please continue to present historical FACTS. However tiresome it may be. This is a war between information and misinformation -- it happened in the past thousands of years, and will CONTINUE to happen in the coming thousands of years. So, please bear the tiresome burden. BTW we appreciate your input.

You wrote: "BTW those West Bank Arabs who want to live under Israeli rule, those West Bank Arabs who want to live peacefully, side by side with Jews, can remain in the West Bank" This is a big catch. I agree with you that Israel "won" the West Bank. But then it decided to occupy it instead of withdrawing or incorporating it. Why? Why are Arab-Israelis not in the IDF? Why is there no civil marriage? Is Israel a Jewish nation-state? These very old questions boil up as soon as one gets down to the nitty gritties. Lieberman, whose ideas are usually an anathema to me, is one of the few dealing head on with these basic issues.

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H97qVh1lps

Dear talkback afficionados.......! Defensive borders ?--------------- Holocaust borders ?-------------- THINK !, even with ALL of it , including the West Bank and Gaza, Israel will ALWAYS live within well defined Holocaust borders. -- And to you No 7, Avraham----let's pray???. I am certain that 6 million did just that, 24 hrs. a day, even when they locked the doors..........! -- Anyone listened?-----NO!--- no people, no Govt., and certainely not one single god. The only one that paid a great deal of attention and was amply rewarded, was LUCIFER,SATAN, or the DEVIL (your choice) No one, whitout exception, is capable of governing a country, much less defending it, when his whole life is dedicated to THE book, and / or hoping for miracles or divine intervention to save him. Even the Dalai Lama finally admitted it. Since the begining of time, men enjoyed peace and prosperity that lasted many,many years, only after long & extended conquests: Genghis Kahn, Attila, Alexander, etc. Today, time is being cut short. Years have been reduced to months; Huge armies a la Napoleon and the Red army have been reduced to tiny groups of fanatics; tanks and cannons to hand held artillery; and the " Ultimate " weapon and it's devastating aftermath, fits very nicely in a business briefcase. The 2 heavy weights on earth, Russia and the US, separated by oceans, continents, thousands of miles, are armed to the teeth to assure their survival. And we, the microscopic piece of sand, surrended by hordes of savages bent in our destruction, including men, women, children, are debating and arguing about the wisdom of adding a few more inches of more sand to achieve a defensible border. Except that we are a bunch of idiots commited to suicide (time is not on our side). AND, until THEY, WE, have a change of heart or prayer books, the only TOOL that will guaranty our survival is " the Sword "........! the plow will have to wait a bit longer

You say :”.. Israel "won" the West Bank.” Dear Ron, the correct word is ‘recovered’. Israel recovered the West Bank. To recover means to take possession of something that is your property. ISRAEL, which includes Judea & Samaria, is the homeland GIVEN by YAHWEH, the Supreme Lord, to the Jewish People -- who entered Israel, which includes Judea & Samaria, in 1220 B.Chr. on the order of YAHWEH, the Supreme Lord. Israel, which includes Judea & Samaria, belongs to the Jewish People since 1220 B.Chr. -- ever and FOREVER. IF the Palestinians say that Judea & Samaria (nowadays known as the West Bank) belongs to the Arabs -- the question arises, under whose authority did it become their property. IF they say it became Arab property under the authority of the Ottomans, then one SHOULD know that the Ottoman rulers of the Ottoman Empire (1517 AD till 1917 AD) are conquerors -- and thus they (i.e. Ottoman rulers) are thieves. THE question arises, whose authority should we accept -- the authority of thieves (i.e. Ottoman rulers) or the authority of YAHWEH, the Supreme Lord. That’s the question. Any SANE person (throughout the world) will ONLY accept the authority of YAHWEH, the Supreme Lord. Those who accept the authority of thieves -- are themselves thieves !!! You asked :” Is Israel a Jewish nation-state?” Yes, Israel is a Jewish state where other religions can be practiced.