Christians never did any harm to Jews in the name of Jésus... Instead, many "christian" leaders incited poor and stupid people against them, because stolers had their eyes on jews' houses and money... That's it that's all.

Christians never did any harm to Jews in the name of jesus , you wrote . And the crusaders on their way to "liberate" Jerusalem ? The inquisition ? forced baptism ? no harm in the name of jesus ? Or is murdering Jews not harming Jews for you ?

I respectfully submit, sir, that you need to read up on history. A number of years ago, a book titled "Constantine's Sword" was published, written by a priest of the Cathoic Church. In it, the author ruefully acknowledged that had the Jewish population of the world been left to the vagaries of natural increase/decrease, the population of Jews in the world today would be approximately 330 million. We are not. We barely number 12 million. Do the math. While you are at it, do the math of proportionate representaion. Look at the portion of Jews who are Nobel laureates. Look at the number of Jews who have fought (and successfully conquered) disease. Look at the number of Jews who have made significant contributions to the world as a whole -- whether through literature, science, the arts, or medicine. The FACT is that the Vatican (i.e., the Roman Catholic Church) aided, abetted and assisted murderers. The Vatican hosted what is called the "rat line," meaning the assistance they gave to wanted Nazi war criminals absconding from Europe following World War II. Look up "Father" Dragonovich. Did you know, sir, that the Vatican issued passports to no fewer than 8,000 wanted Nazi war criminals? Did you know that monasteries throughout Europe shielded, cosseted, and protected murderers of Jews following World War II, simply because they claimed to be "good Catholics," whatever that is.. Did you know that over 5,000 Vatican passports were issued to Nazi war criminals because those individuals who were the recipients of Cathoic good will claimed to be "anti-Communists?" Please don't tell me about the kindness and gentleness of the Roman Cathoic Church. You are all sheep, led by authoritarian anti-Semitic idiots. If that's how you wish to live, so be it. Fine. Let someone tell you how to think, how to live, what to believe. If you are that stupid, perhaps you need it. But please do not whitewash the Roman Catholic Church. Your Church, sir, are war criminals. The blood of millions of Jews stains their hands. Anything that suggests otherwise is a lie. But the Roman Catholic Church is BUILT on tyranny and lies. Have fun.

Actions speak louder than words. Given the vatican's 1500 year history of mass murder, genocide, kidnappings, and torture, words fail to impress anyone! Open the archives; abolish the liturgy that continues to attack Jews; condemn anyone or anything - including the incitement laden "passion play"-that attacks Jews and then we will be on a path to reconciliation. We cannot dictate to you how to run your religion anymore than we can dictate to the KKK how to run a good old fashioned cross-burning. But at the same time, we are under no obligation to take yet another pope at his word since the word is only as good as the deeds reflected in the history of the church

What you have said is very true and documented about the Catholic church . look what we did . when we lost in spain ..all the jews left with us because we treated them in spain very well for close to 800 years . . that is why you have a lot of jews in Morocco and Turkey . you were treated so poorly in europe to the extent that MR Hertzel ..decided to create national identity for you ..and form your own place .. he was looking in uganda ,argentina,alaska ..etc ..and of course Palestine (the ottman's refused ). the european embassies in Palestin started to facilitate your immigration to our home land clandestinly ..hertzel provided the money ..palestinians were forced to sell lands at gun point . basically ,europeans saw a chance to get rid of you ...we(Palestinians ) paid the price .....for now (of course ). seems that History is vary clear and well documented about our good coexistance ..untile you decided in 1948 to really stab us in the back .

thank you for your opinion. What I said about DACON9's mail, was partly for him, but mostly for about 95% of TB opinions. There are about 3 or 4 TBs on anti-semitism currently running. The moment a new article or pressrelease is on Yner, there are xxx mails and they pretty well sound the same: ONE Austrian teacher is suspended for teaching anti-sermitism.. The TB is: ALL Austrians are ant-semites, have been, still are. Now 2 or 3 Catholic priests have crossed the line: answer... ALL Christians are anti-semites, have been, still are.... The Spaniards are the worst- ever since the Inquisition. etc..... you get the idea? Basically ALL Europeans are anti-semites, right? All the events quoted happened many years ago, today's generations learn about it in school. There is no anti-semitism tolerated in most European countries, probably less than in the States. You are looking at how many millions of people? There are always some people who are against Blacks, Europenas, Americans, South Americans, Jews, Muslims, women, gays and so on.....they have to be silenced- we all agree. To throw everybody in the same pot and accuse whole countries is unfair, untrue and does not help the effort to be politically correct. You are against the pope wearing his clerical garb when he comes to Israel? This is what he wears in real life- do you want him to wear pijamas. I do not see the rabbis change their garb when they meet the pope- for Catholics Jerusalem is special too.... for obvious reasons which you should understand, after all Jesus was a Jew- I expected the Jewish community to respect other religions- at least this is what I hear on TB- maybe I am reading the wrong TBs? You consider this bad taste? Sorry- . I am not exactly sure how many times the Pope(s) have to apologize for the persecution of Jews in the past- every government has apologized too.................. what I hear on TB is constant reproach, more accusations, over and over..... what else can we (I) do? I love Israel, my best friends are Jews- nobody in my family has ever done anything against the Jews, against Israel- not my brothers and sisters, not my parents or grandparents or great grand parents..nobody in my neighborhood is against israel- but I suppose that all falls on deaf ears- most people on TB have made up their minds and nothing I or anybody else says, including politicians or the Pope will make a difference- and that is the sad part- NOTHING WILL CHANGE..... it will always be the Jews against everybody else?

Church war criminals? thank you Sarah! How about the monasteries, diplomats etc. who saved and protected the Jews? Are they war criminals too? Of course it is so easy to blame the bad people, and you and many others on TB are quick to do so...- and there are plenty in the wolrd EVERYWHERE..... but there are good people too, always were. Maybe read up on those people for a change? There were people who did not get a movie made about their lives like Schindler....they risked their lives- but of course nobdy talks about them.... There is so much hatred on TB- arguments that are emotional rather than reasonable and intelligent. I hope you stop feeling sorry for yourself long enough to mention the good people.......

There were Great Catholics during the Shoa , people who saved Jews , who gave shelter to children , and not to have them baptised in many , if not most , cases . They did it , in some countries even risking to be murdered themselve , out of Humanity . Not so much at the vatican , but lower ranked church people . And i know exactly what i'm talking about . Of course the pasports given to nazis by the vatican , that's true . That there are fundamentalists and antisemites in the church , no one will deny it . But , did'nt the past Pope save a Jewish woman himself ?

thank you Charles- your mail helps me believe in the goodwill we all need to practice and show towards all people. My family helped save Jews too- risking much.... and I am sad when I hear some people putting down or ignoring the good people. They did it out of the goodness of their heart, to make up for the cruelty and unfairness of others- they did get no rewards nor medals- and they do not deserve to be maligned. An special exhibition in Madrid Spain just opened to remember 5 Spanish diplomats who saved close to 10'000 Jews from the camps by giving them new passports, so they could escape.... I would not exactly call this NOTHING. Anyway, I hope people on TB will remember and understand, or learn, that there are GOOD people in the world- they do not always outnumber the bad- but they do not deserve to by all lumped together. Shabbat Shalom.

So much untrue facts . The then palestinian landlords , living in Beyrouth , were happy to sell their waste ground , for big money , to the Jews . Jews so well treated in muslim lands ? as dhimmis , second class "citizens" who had to pay to stay alive . Learn something before telling ridiculous things

a self hating one , and those are the worse . There is no doubt that antisemitism has his roots in catholicism and protestantism in Europe . But i think that it is changing , for some serious reasons . First of all , they have seen what antisemitism can cause . And a second reason , very actually , they fear the muslim invasion in their country , they fear those people , in a way they never feared Jews .

So, tell me, please -- with all those wonderful Catholics in Germany, Austria, Poland, Hungary ..... how did six million Jews die? And YOU -- a Swiss citizen -- need to SHUT YOUR MOUTH. We KNOW what happened to the gold jewelry belonging to Jews and the gold dental work removed from slaughtered Jewish mouths. We KNOW where it ended up. We KNOW about the appropriated and confiscated Jewish bank accounts in Switzerland. We KNOW about Swiss insurance companies and how they have consistently refused to pay off on the fully paid-up life insurance policies taken out by desperate Jews in the 1930s. WE ... KNOW. I repeat: SHUT YOUR MOUTH. The Swiss are as criminal as any Nazi. Perhaps worse than any Nazi. Six million Jews died. All your wonderful Catholics in Europe LET IT HAPPEN. I'm not INTERESTED in one isolated individual who probably took a great deal of money as the price for protecting a Jew. I am the child of Jewish concentration camp survivors. My parents were kids; teenagers. No one saved them. A monastery turned my father away and betrayed his family. He survived by sheer luck. SHUT YOUR MOUTH, Lisa. What did YOUR parents and grandparents do during the war? Don't tell me they were Swiss and therefore neutral. I KNOW BETTER.

Wow! The pope himself saved one whole Jew? Forgive me if I fail to be impressed. Austria, France, Germany, Belgium, Poland, Hungary ..... all Roman Catholic countries. How many Jews could have been saved had the pope issued one edict declring Nazism to be evil and ordering Catholics to do their utmost to counter the evil that was being perpetrated upon Jews? But he didn't, did he? Don't talk to me about one Jew personally saved by the pope. He could have saved 5,999,999 others. But he didn't, did he? And after the war, the Vatican helped wanted Nazi war criminals escape. You are free to think whatever you wish. I think the Roman Catholic Church is evil. They have proven it, over and over again, for a very long time. Couple of thousand of years. You need to take the scales from your eyes, Charles.

"we treated them well in Spain...." the Berbers invaded Spain-not the Arabs, and not Palestinians either- tiny difference? and the Muslims did not treat the Jews well, and certainly not the Christians- whatever they teach you now... your history is made to suit your taste and flavor of the day......

It's not pius XII who saved a Jewess , it was the precedent one , when he was a pastor in Poland . In those countries you named ,[ not only Roman Catholic also many protestant ] thousands , hundreds of thousands were saved . A French bishop had a letter read in all his churches condemning the anti Jewish laws . In Poland there was Zegota who saved many thousands children . In belgium 4000 children were hidden in many institutions , mostly catholic . What are those more than 20000 Righteous ? Are'nt they Christians ? Where did all those who were saved hide ? In the list of French Righteous there are maybe 50 , if not more , Catholic Priests , Abbots and higher clergy . I have lived this dark period , so i know exactly what i'm talking about . Don't be so hatefull Sarah .

Look, I don't want to hijack this thread. I am not a hateful person. But truth is truth, and that is not the same thing as hateful, anyway, Pope John Paul II -- Karyl Wojjtila -- presided over the papacy when Roman Catholic nuns built a convent in -- of all places -- Auschwitz. The pope even came to speak at the "dedication." May I tell you what my father said at the time? He said that the Pope spoke for over an hour; he spoke well, even brilliantly. But in the entirety of his speech, the only Jew he mentioned was Jesus Christ. Who did not die in Auschwitz. Three million Jews, however, did. That's not hateful, Charles. That is the sad and despicable truth.

You don't know what you talk about . There were not 3 million Jews murdered at auschwitz . less than 1.5 million is more than enough . There were not 50 Righteous priests in France , but 60 in the first 7 of the 18 pages list . Priests , nuns , abbots , bishops and one cardinal . This same Karol Wojtila is the man who saved a Jewess , more important than what he said . Be more objective , look a the positive points . Look at the hundreds of thousands Jews who were saved thanks to Catholics and other Christians .

I'll tell you what, Charles .... you look at the "positive" points. You look at the so-called "hundreds of thousands" (I dispute that number, by the number) of Jews allegedly saved by Christians. Me -- assuming you don't mind -- I'll remember the six million Jews who did not survive. I grew up with no grandparents, no aunts, no uncles, no cousins. Gee. I guess they weren't "fortunate" enough to run into any of all your wonderful Christians. The Christians they ran into killed them. You go ahead and preach whatever line of nonsense you wish to adopt because it makes you feel better. I choose to remember the six million. Let's just leave it at that. I will not reply to any more of your posts. Six million, Charles. Six million.

One thing i would like that you give me , your references to the John Paul Ii speech at the carmel in Auschwitz . I did'nt find anything about this , so i suppose it's the same as your "3 million" , an error , voluntarely or not . I too lost many family members , even my father , you are'nt alone . If not for those BRAVE Catholics , there would have been hundreds of thousands more victims . Catholic clerics saved them , and i was amongst those saved . So it's not nonsense or untrue things as you wrote [ 3 million ]

I feel sorry for you Sarah, I am sorry you lost your family- Remember there were 6 million non-Jews also- they do not count in your eyes? I have met survivors- and unlike you- they are kind, gentle people. They remember the horror, but they do not accuse a second or third generation of people- . Whatever you feel and believe- it does not give you the right to be abusive on TB, nor anywhere else. Just so you know: my family NEVER TOOK ONE CENT from the Jewish refugees- they helped, risking their lives. They gave them shelter, gave them whatever little food they had, gave them warm clothes... Swiss are no worse than any other country- . Americans too could have done more- you know- but you are so blinded with hate. I bet you do not even KNOW one European personally- you are just repeating what you hear and read... and misquoting.... I never said ALL Europeans were saints- but to say ALL of them were nazis and criminals is stupid, unjust and simply NOT TRUE- and this is where you should draw the line.

You wrote: "ONE Austrian teacher... Now 2 or 3 Catholic priests... Spanish Inquisition" You trivialize two millennia of Christian history of misojudaic persecution that has, over the millennia, pervaded every crevice of the Christian Church. Read Oxford historian-scholar James Parkes (The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue) and educate yourself to your own Christian history. You're not paying close attention to what I've been writing. (BTW, I've lived in Europe.) I'm not blaming you for your direct actions as a Christian. I'm blaming you for continuing to subscribe to a NT that is, unavoidably and inescapably, intrinsically misojudaic as a supersessionist displacement theology. It is subscribing to this misojudaic supersessionist displacement theology that makes you guilty of its consequences. You're attempting to introduce a moving redefinition of "Christians" that distorts and contradicts history. You cannot redefine Christianity from what was defined for all time by the original Christians of Paul/135 C.E. to the 4th century C.E. and transform them into good guys saving Jews during the Holocaust who were the "real Christians" while denying that the Nazis were Christians. Most of Germany were Christians and most Germans carried out the "Final Solution for Jews." Ergo, the "Final Solution for Jews" was carried out mostly by Christians. Denying that the Holocaust, Inquisition, etc. was perpetrated by Christians--only a handful of monsters--is no better than those you criticize who (you allege) blame all Europeans. You may not like them or agree with them... but, ironically, that, while it makes you a better and more righteous person, simultaneously and necessarily makes you less the Christian. Whether you know it or not, you are denying parts of the NT! Those who helped Jews were righteous people; like many, they identified more with Christianity than any other religion; but, by definition, they could not have been the classically-defined, NT (=misojudaic) Christians. As far as what Mr. Ratzinger wears to visit, do you really think that putting the symbols of supersession and displacement theology of the Christian Church in our face, in our own holy places, is outweighed by the consideration that "it's his regular dress"? Are you really that shallow? You need to understand that we are Jews, not Christians, and there is no authorization of any pope in Judaism/Torah. From our perspective, he is no pope. He is a counterfeit successor to a bishop in 135 C.E. who, as documented by your own earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius, forcibly ousted the 15th Netzarim Paqid, Yehudah, ha-Tzadiq. Mr. Ratzinger should not visit at all as long as he pretends, based on a crime and a lie, to be the infallible intermediary between mankind and man-god idol and represents supersessionism claiming to displace Torah (Judaism). There is no place in Israel for such a sacrilege, much less in Yerushalayim or the Kotel. The fallacy here is that, because of secularists and atheists, Jews are not treating these places as holy as Torah commands. As for what the rabbis wear, where is an instance where we insisted on visiting in the Vatican when our presence or dress was inherently offensive to Christians? Oh, that's right. The very existence of continued Torah-keepers is a contradiction of Christian supersession and displacement of Judaism. That is why the Church has repeatedly tried to eradicate Torah-keeping Jews over the millennia. Negotiations should be confined to mutually neutral ground. When your supporter-ally is a staunch myopic and racist atheist who rejects Judaism, that implies something about your position. You might pause to reconsider whether that is what Christianity really wants. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

You said that those who gave shelter did it for money . No ONE of the Righteous received anything , it's the rule . Some received money , yes , not everyone in this hard period had enough to buy food at the black market for one or more Jews they gave shelter to . Don't be so hatefilled , don't distord the truth , be a "mensch" .

First of Nazi Germany was 2/3 Protestant and was led by rascist ideology not by "chritianity"; National Socialists of Germany have plans to conquer the Europe, create Germanic Empire and Lebensraum for "Aryan" German Volk in the East by killing or displacing the Slavs, Gypsies Jews and other who were considerd as "lesser races". Read about General plan Ost or learn about WWII.. My country lost 6 milions of people half of them Jewish other half Christian Poles mainly Catholics. I'm sorry that Some Poles dared to survive the war. When German armies conqured Europe during WWII they killed also one milion Ortodox Serbs, and twenty milions of Soviet Russian civilians mayority of them Ortodox Chritans too. They razed entire towns and viliges and burned people not only in Synagogues but in Churches too. In Aushwitz I were thousands of non Jews "untermnchen" martyred including St Maximilian Colbe and St. Edita Stein so maybe the cross there is not out of place. Nazi Germny murderd atheist Jews and Jewish Converts to Chritianity not becouse of their religion but race. Americans who did nothing to Stop Hitler till 1942, did nothing to stop genocide in east and now are supporting muslim jihadists in Kosovo, Kashmir, Saudi Arabia and Ramalach PA shud not criticise "Europeans". Especialy American Jews whose vast mayority voted Barack Husein Obama and are living in cosy NYC instead of Jerusalem or Hebron. Why Everytime imigrant muslims/left do the riots in our cities some Jews blame it on Chritianity? Christans are consatntly persecuted in Egypt, Nigeria, Pakistan China, North Korea, Indonesia and Yes in Israel in much lesser extend too but nobody sane blame it on all Israeli Jews. Some haredi Jews are exactly mirrors of most vicius comie, nazi or muzie antisemites. Lieberman has right they're the same as Arabs.

while I cannot follow your LOGIC in all this- I respect your faith and believe as A JEW- which is more than YOU do. Your address proclaims: welcoming Jews and non-Jews- really? I do not feel welcome at all- in many of your arguments you have made up your mind already that everything that is NOT based on your Torah is bad and sinful. Nobody is asking you to acknowledge the Catholic Pope as YOUR pope- he wanted to visit Jerusalem, to offer peace, towards better understanding- it would signal to all Christians that the church is at a turning point etc. A honest and constructive gesture, don't you think? But I am beginning to see that it is wasted time- you do not WANT the church to change- it would mean you'd have to change your mindset too- and that is the problem. You are quoting a historical event, probably grossly exaggerated, that happened in 135 C:E. ? We are in 2009 our time....isn't it time to maybe concentrate on how we can make the world of today a bit better, more livable for ALL people instead of being stuck in a time warp? Today is Sunday- a work day for you but not for us lowly Christians.

sorry I got the wrong number - you are totally right and I thank you for your insightful information. Your opinion is exactly what I have been argueing about- the generalisation and global attacks on Christians. Few people (except for morons like Williamson and his split brotherhood) in the church do not know that there have been many mistakes made in the name of the church- today's generations are overall less fanatical, better educated and open minded- I believe people in the Church, in Europe deserve to be treated as respectable human beings. The Holocaust Memorial has become a Jewish exclusive lately- conveniently forgetting and ignoring the 6 million non Jews that have been murdered- . And as we speak, there are Christians persecuted in many countries. I hope people like you and me can make a difference somehow. I wish you and your country luck my friend. Let us hope for better times when we can speak and be heard.

Two corrections . Edith Stein was murdered because she was born Jewish . Had the abbot of the Jerusalem Carmelite nuns accepted to receive her , she would have lived . Had a Swiss cloister accepted her with her NON converted sister Edith Stein would have survived . That's one . In what are Catholics in Israel persecuted by the governement ? Are'nt they free to pray ? to go to church ? Are'nt their churches protected ?

That the Jews were murdered ONLY for being Jewish . We know that other people were killed too . We know what they did to Dutch monastries and churches , what they did in east Europe with those who could be communists . We are not "conveniently" [ as you wrote} forgetting other people who suffered .

You lived in Europe ? in your baracks in Germany while serving in the US army . That's not "living in Europe" . I was also a member of the Allied occupation forces , so i know how how we "lived" there . Again one of your distortions .

I know Charles and what I was saying was not directed at you, nor the majority of Israeli's and Jews- you know who I was referring to, I am sure. I understand your point of view and I agree 100%- you read the TBs too and you can clearly see that more than 2/3 of the TB mails are not as intelligent and accurate, let alone fair, as yours is. Please do not be offended by my remarks- I value your opinion very much. The latest retorts have been less than amiable, lots of accusations and very one-sided views. I feel very strongly about freedom of religion, allowing people to practice their chosen religion in peace and with dignity-, this has, sadly, in the past, been missing from the catholic church- and as we find out now- when the Pope is trying to make amends and remove offending acts and words from the liturgy, trying to heal old wounds- people still quote what was done xxxx years ago....it is like being kicked in the teeth.... an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth... Every effort to go a step forward is blocked by people who hang on to old prejudices..... (one example: every year at certain Jewish holidays my Jewish friends tell me, that no "this year we did not drink Christian childrens blood"- is this necessary? is this fair? we are no longer living in the Middle Ages.... I had never even heard about this until my Jewish friends started talking about it- then I looked it up.....European children do not grow up with inherited anti-semitic genes, nor do they learn about it in schools (except in isolated cases). But we discussed this in several TBs already----- still, the TB's always turn to this - almost right on time, you could set a clock by it- watch it. That the most cruel ant-semitic events in history were committed by greedy governments, regardless of religion, is for some reason, never mentioned. The same governments also turned against their own religions when it suited them - it was all for money, property etc.... the excuse was religion....( so called Catholic monarchs: Cathars, Knights Templars, the Spanish Amortization of Catholic monasteries and church properties), Henry VIII and the church... etc... the history books are full of this....in Spain the King wanted the Jews properties, so any reason and excuse was good enough and the church was happy to oblige- it got them out of the spotlight...it was more complicated than this- but this is the gist of it. The Nazi dream of the 'pure Arian race' excluded many races and religions.....so they were 'extreminated'. And it is still going on.... Hamas has the largest network of terrorist groups, guess where: in the States- and they don't even realize it? I need to get a life- not on Ynet TB, LOL.

I lived in Europe for most of my life , read my 49 again , and had , and still have , many Catholic friends , some Church goers too . Well , i nevertold them : this year we will not eat blood in our Matsoth . It's stupid to tell it . It was a belief from many "untherdevelopped" Catholic people till some 100 year ago . In 1956 , when i was serving in the army , in my European birth country , a fellow soldier told me that it is impossible for me to be Jewish . After i told him that i was circumcised , and other proofs , i asked him ; Why ? Because Jews have horns . In 1956 !!!! . You see , not only this "blood libel" is a belief of underdevelloped people .