Kadima: We agree with Lieberman on 90% of issues
Attila Somfalvi
Published: 16.02.09, 18:13
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1. American Jews
Dave ,   NY, USA   (02.16.09)
What about the loyalty of the American Jews? They are more loyal to Israel than the U.S.
2. Tsipi you go girl
Hen   (02.16.09)
You look so... so.... well, strange, in that Star Trek-like suit... what IS that?
3. 1 in 5 is 20%. No hamass gone; so can not be 90%
Jay ,   Toronto, Canada   (02.16.09)
I am sure everything Kadima said can not be true. On the other issues it was hedge and diplomatic double speak. They do not agree on 90%; they only agree on Orthodox should serve: 20%. i agree also, but that is the least of our worries. on the other issues it is BiBi baby, not Livme alone piece now but not tomorrow and you can have Jerusalem and Golan because it will make the Eurapeons feeel good.
4. kadima, Labour, YB & Meretz still not enough
zionist forever   (02.16.09)
Even with YB, Labour and Meretz Livni can't make up the numbers. She will need either the arab parties which Liberman will probably refuse to join a coalition that includes. The alternative is she invlites parties from the religious block which will create friction between both her and Liberman. The religious parties will probably try and derail many of her peace process sell out plans especialy when it comes to Jerusalem. Netanyahu has the nationalists in his pocket, the religious block will back him all he really needs is to find a way to get both Liberman and the religious parties to join a coalition with each other. If that issue can be overcome then between Likud, the nationalists, the religious and Liberman Bibi can put together a working coalition without the need for either Labout or Kadima who have both ruled out joining a coalition led by Bibi. Livni needs to be reminded that its going to take a wide coalition to make up the numbers and Liberman is just one party.
5. here she goes, 'swinging' again
dizzy izzy   (02.16.09)
One day (shesays) 'dis' and next day (she says) 'da...t
6. Who are the real racists if not Al Fatah, Hamas and Labour
USA   (02.16.09)
Palestinians want a state carved out of Israel free of Jews, that's not racist but demanding loyalty of Arabs who live in Israel is racist. Labour is a real racist and a fraud for creating the law of return that applies only to Jews and not Arabs and then calling other zionist parties racists.
7. Many of Lieberman's policies are leftist
and anti-Jewish, what idiot people would vote for a corrupt ugly Russian.
8. Livni will do nothing about hamas's tunnels and crossings
Jason ,   sderot israel   (02.16.09)
LIvni wants to give hamas rafah crossing. Livni is the main reason why the IDF wasn't allowed to go in on the ground and stop the 2,000 tunnels. You can't destroy them from the air. You need ground troops at the philadelhpia route. Livni was also against using bunker buster bombs. Livni speaks in platitudes. Lieberman should have gone after specifics. Of course livni says she will crush hamas then she said demanded the operation stop. She will say anything to stay in power. Lieberman has had 3 years to watch kadima. Funny how he wasn't specific about crushing hamas but on the conversions issue he is very specific. Now we know which is more important to him.
9. #1
Tamir ,   Los Angeles   (02.16.09)
shut your mouth you are so ignorant. As an american/israeli jew (born in Israel but lvied here since the age of 3 and a proud american citizen) I can tell you that I am extremely loyal to United States. Moreover I have many jewish friends who have served proudly in several branches of the U.S military and do more to protect this country than your dumb ass ever will. Tell me what do you do to be loyal to your country? do you think supporting the terrorist arab countries is showing loyalty to America? why don't you try living there and then talk to me about loyalty. I live and work here, pay my taxes, have many other american friends, vote, and contribute to society. We jews are an integral part of American society. If you want proof why dont you look up all the American nobel prize winner who were jewish,
10. #1, Irrelevant. "Palestinians" are hostile to Israel
Mike ,   Atlanta USA   (02.16.09)
11. Do lieberman and Kadima agree with releasing terrorists
Seth ,   tiberias israel   (02.16.09)
Does lieberman agree with Kadima releasing 1,000 terrorists and some even to help fatah.
12. Livni is allowing iran to smuggle 75km rockets to hamas
Neal ,   nyc usa   (02.16.09)
Livni wouldn't allow idf ground troops and engineers to destroy the tunnels by the philadelphia route in rafah. Livni allowed rockets to be brought in to hit ashdod and beersheba and yavne. Now Livni is alllowing hamas to bring in rockets that can hit tel aviv and dimona. Livni refused to allow idf ground troops to destroy hamas's tunnels. There were 20 before disengagement and now 2,000 some 90 feet deep and lighted up. But livni is for disengagement so her red line is allowing idf troops back to the philadelphia route.
13. Lieberman's settler support don't like kadima arming fatah
Dan ,   sderot israel   (02.16.09)
Kadima has spent the last 3 years arming fatah in the west bank. Fatah said in the day they used their weapons at work and then at night go home and use it for terror against settlers. Kadima set up fatah training camps and armed them. Kadima even armed fatah in gaza while they were firing rockets at israel. Settlers have been killed with the weapons kadima allowed in. Lieberman won't get into specific on security issues. Instead he issues a broad question will you crush hamas. And of course kadima loves talking big and doing nothing so they love useless platitudes like that. Kadima is far left on security issues. I warned all of lieberman's voters this would happen. They ignored the fact he joined the kadima government to keep them in power after the failed lebanon war. They ignored the fact that he is very close personally with livni. The vast majority of lieberman voters want bibi over livni. How is lieberman going to be a future prime minister if he picks livni. Does he think the leftists will like him. Also the conversion issue he talks about so much was way down on the list. I agree wtih him. But that shouldn't be a dealbreaker when the kadima government did nothing about it.
14. Oh how quickly their positions are set aside
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (02.16.09)
To those who view Israel's political system as seriously "screwed up", here's yet more evidence. During the campaign, Kadima decried YB's policies as "racist"; now it seems to have no problem with them. Kadima only achieved its plurality by pulling votes from the even more leftist Labor and Meretz. I suspect most who voted for Kadima weren't countenancing an alliance with YB. In a similar vein, those voting for YB wanted someone more "right" than Likud, who would stand against the danger of the "5th column". I suspect most who voted for them didn't countenance an alliance with those intent on ceding the Golan, most of the West Bank and dividing Jerusalem. But it wouldn't be the first time the desire for power has drawn together such strange bedfellows. If this doesn't push more to support direct elections and the accountability it brings, I don't know what will.
15. 4 Do you know what Shas said about Bibi and Israel Beitenu?
martin knopfman ,   tel aviv   (02.16.09)
They said "Bibi is a liar and will promise Lieberman everything but won't give it to him". This is how the religious parties will justify sitting with Lieberman. The irony is that after saying the above that they'll make a deal with Bibi :-)
16. Obama is going to screw you all
wait and see.
17. to talkback #1, Dave
Billy ,   Burlington, Canada   (02.16.09)
So, on what stats or surveys did base your stereotype sort of judgement? What definition do you consider for "loyality"? And why do you think that American, Canadian etc Jews are loyal to Israel more than their own country. Thanks!
18. #17
Vanessa ,   SA   (02.16.09)
Every Jew should be more loyal to Israel than their own country.Without Israel what would you be.If the world turned against all Jews where would you go and what coutry would protect you more than Israel would. You should not forget that Israel is your true home and that your first loyalty as a Jew belongs to Israel.
19. Israel Beiteinu stands for territorial compromise
Steve   (02.16.09)
This is why Lieberman can work well with Kadima; the party of surrender and retreat. Mr. Avigdor Lieberman, like Shas, has made it plain in the past, territorial compromise, exchange of land and populations is in the cards. Shas said it would bolt the Kadima government coalition if it negotiated Jerusalem with Fatah terrrorists. As Livni and Olmert negotiated Jerusalem, Shas remained in the government until now. Even Likud has entertained territorial compromise, declining to sign a recently distributed oath to NOT lend a hand to the formation of a Palestinian state. Netanyahu and three quarters of Likud party candidates refused to endorse this simple pledge. Do we have a potential nationalist / right government with Kadima, Shas, Likud and Israel Beiteinu? It would appear we do not. The right allowed itself to be duped and betrayed yet again.
20. #1 is making a good point and a bad point
Ahad Ha'am ,   New York, NY   (02.16.09)
...we americans are loyal to America because it is a state of all its citizens. Can't you defenders of Zionism-as-it-is-practiced-in-Israel see the bitter irony about being an american jew who supports a country who doesn't allow it's own minorities equality? Which would you rather be: a jew in America or an Arab in Israel?
21. Dumb goes right to the bone
Gideon Reader   (02.16.09)
Kadima would appoint Ted Bundy as a paid consultant on women's issues. So bad is their judgement, that the "Mossad Beauty" today called for giving up fully half of Israel for an elusive peace with a partner who openly calls for the dispossession and murder of the Jewish residents of the other half of the state which the conflicted "Kadima Charwoman" thinks Israel would be able to sustain as a sovreign, defensible entity. Worse than having and serially bad judgment and no stomach for in your face conflict with an implacable enemy, she does not even see a problem. She may not be the most attractive female in Israel politics, but outside of Meretz, she is certainly the stupidest.
22. no loyalty.....
Jacob Erickson ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (02.16.09)
that should be an expression for all countries. It is not racist at all. If you're not loyal to your country, you shouldn't be a citizen. But at the same time you have to give people reason to be loyal. One of the first steps is to give some sort of national service option to all the people in Israel for when they turn 18, even if it isn't the army.
23. #20
Tamir ,   Los Angeles   (02.16.09)
Are you saying that arabs aren't given the same rights as jews in israel? Can you abck this statement? If the U.S government decided one day to require all of its citizens to take an oath of loyalty to the state I would gladly take it. Oh wait.... I already did when I had to take my citizenship examinations!! There is nothing wrong with proving loyalty to your country, in fact it is both patriotic and morally sound. The fact that Israel allows arabs to not only voice their hateful opinions but to be represented in its own government is not only beyong fair its actually counter productive! Does the president of these united states not have to swear a oath to uphold the constitution? why would it be any different for an arab living in israel and taking advantage of all israel ahs to offer to be required to do the same? The hypocricy is infuriating in some of these talckbacks. Are you people really that ignorant that you can't look beyond all your stupidity? honestly as much as it has become cliche to brush off anti-semitism in these remarks it has become evident to me that these people just have a hate for jews in their heart.
24. Kadima/Lieberman
fiona ,   jerusalem   (02.16.09)
Livni won the election by one mandate, taking into account that over 30% of the citizens chose not to cast their ballot. Not much has been said about that. I'm happy I didn't vote for her, since claiming her dubious victory, her lack of leadership is has moved form transparent to apparent. She should have claimed her true place as opposition leader, left the right to chew each other up, and started her campaign to bring Israel towards its true center in the next election. Her acceptance of Lieberman's agenda is abhorrant, many of those who voted for her and her wishy party in true faith will never place her or her party's name in an envelope again. She has proven herself to be a person without wisdom and foresight; a light leader of a light party. Livni has shown me the farce of her claim to leadership
25. #19 Steve - The right was not duped
Tracy W ,   Canada   (02.16.09)
Bibi made it very clear during the campaign that he intended to work with Kadima. Lieberman also has had a very clear platform for years. There was no deceit on the part of the politicians. The right wingers who voted for Likud or for Lieberman deceived themselves. They told themselves they were voting against Kadima. They will get Kadima anyway because Bibi and Kadima think alike and are natural allies. National Union was also quite clear about its platform: a strong Israel with no compromise on land or demographic issues, the same position held by the majority of Israeli Jews. But only a tiny minority voted for them. Had the entire right wing rallied around a NU coalition, including Moshe Feiglin, many centrist votes would have gone to National Union. As we have it now, the fatalist belief that nationalists can't win has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The question is, will Israelis get another chance? Or will the US work along with its Israeli puppets and finish the job started in Oslo.
26. What concessions did Livni get on borders,refugees,Jerusalem
Sam ,   Canada   (02.16.09)
What did Livni achieve during her term as Foreign Minister that Israel is supposed to entrust her again with negotiations? I didn't hear of anything. I only heard that Abbas wants more and more. What good is an Israeli negotiator that can't reduce Palestinian expectations and is always expecting Jews to be the ones to give up more?
27. To #20...there is no irony
Logic ,   USA   (02.16.09)
I doubt you are even Jewish. As an American Jew I can tell you that we all know that Israel is A JEWISH STATE. Therefore, there's two options: give up the right to a Jewish state, or make mandates to prevent the dissolution of the nature of the Jewish State. "Which would you rather be: a jew in America or an Arab in Israel? " -- Arabs have 22 countries to go to, many of which are Muslim countries. Would you like to be a Jew THERE????? Stay in America, because I can tell you what, Israelis don't need you. They will survive.
28. Tracy W. #25: You are right with one poss. exception
Steve   (02.17.09)
I hope you understand, I use the term "duped" in the loose sense of the term. I agree with your statement, "The right wingers who voted for Likud or for Lieberman deceived themselves....There was no deceit on the part of these politicians." The only point in which we might part company is your view that "no compromise on land or demographic issues is a position held by the majority of Israeli Jews." Poll after poll in Israel demonstrates that a majority (if only a slight majority) of Jews in Israel are willing to compromise land to the Arab enemy under certain conditions. You cannot state with assurance that these polls are faulty, given your own admission that only a tiny minority voted for National Union. Can you?
29. #28 Steve
Tracy W   (02.17.09)
Hello Steve, I always read your talkbacks with interest. I really like them and learn a lot from them. You may be right about the percentages. Still, I have the feeling that many of those in favor of land concessions are Jews who simply do not believe that there are feasible alternative options. They have come to believe that the only solution to terror is to surrender a big part of their land. Let's hope NU continues to educate the public on other options. All the best to you, Steve. I look forward to your thoughtful talkbacks.
30. To #23
Ahad Ha'am ,   NYC   (02.17.09)
Dear Tamir: I’m afraid that’s exactly what I’m saying. While the declaration and Basic laws say they are equal, the reality is quite different. The JNF is in charge of much of the best land in Israel and will only sell to Jews. Every few years an Arab family challenges this…. lately they win their cases in the supreme court, then: nothing happens. I as a Jew have more rights to live anywhere in Israel then a family that’s been there 100s of years. There are the unrecognized villages lacking electricity and sewage because the Zionist government in ‘49 made a list of approved Arab villages and though the Arab population has increased 10-fold, there has not been a new Arab village approved in 60+ years. There are laws and benefits written to apply only to IDF-vets (fine enough I suppose) or “people who would qualify for citizenship under the Right of Return” read: Jews. And that’s without talking about the unwritten reality of applying for a job or loan (or entering Ben-Gurion airport) with an Arab name. Routinely Jews and Jewish PMs talk about “the demographic problem” as if 20% of the state should be encouraged not to give birth. Imagine if an American president spoke of Jews giving birth in America, or blacks for that matter, as a “demographic problem.” They be forced to resign. Now in the Knesset there are Arab parties, thanks to the supreme court (Arab parties are perennially barred by the majority, then reinstated) but they are never, as a matter of custom, allowed to be part of a governing coalition, even as the strangest bedfellows are made among Jewish parties. There have been almost no Arab government ministers (the first was in 2008; Israel Beteinu said “an axe has been thrust at the trunk of Zionism”). On a different note, I am free not to say the pledge of allegiance and will not be deported or threatened with deportation of I don’t. Lastly, our president could swear an oath to America because it no longer defined him as 3/5 a man. The vision of the country expanded to included men and women like him. Israel’s vision includes Jews.
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