Opinion
The limits of satire
Zohir Andreus
Published: 22.02.09, 16:01
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1. I dont like everything Shlein pokes fun at
Rusty   (02.22.09)
... but hey! Get real! This was meant to be satire. All of you self-righteous critics should be attacking John Cleese with even more vehemence about all the scenes in Monty Python movies that poked fun at Christianity, at Jusaim, at Islam. You want to lower yourselves to the level of the terror-approving cartoon critics from Denmark? Then enjoy labeling yourselves a such.
2. well what is it?
Airborne ,   Jerusalem, ISRAEL   (02.22.09)
"belonging to the nationalistic Palestinian camp" well that being said why don't you move to Gaza, Ramallah or Jenin if you are so in love with your Palestinians. Wow you really are a 5th a column. Now I see it and believe it. The state that gives you all the freedoms in the world and you identify with the palestinians. We have no problem with your Christianity here in Israel but unfortunately your Palestinian brothers don't. What a pity and a shame that you would rather call yourself a Palestinian instead of Israeli even though your Arab bros would slit your throat in a heartbeat. You then say ..."her son Jesus, may he rest in peace." I thought you believe that he is alive no? How can the SON OF G-D be dead? Isn't that impossible? Isn't he supposed to be G-d as well? You guys and your trilogy are all screwy!
3. Zohir Andreus
Charleston ,   Los Angeles, USA   (02.22.09)
Zohir Andreus Published: 02.22.09, 16:01 / Israel Opinion Had the host of a satirical show in a Western country dared attack Judaism as a religion(..) charge him with anti-Semitism and demand that he be suspend from work, not to mention requests to indict him .............................. Christian theology IS an attack on Judaism......a BLOOD LIBEL that Jews killed G-d that Jews are blind and doomed to helll blah blah blah.. Christianity IS an attack on Judaism MrAndreus..what are you doing about the slaughter and suppression of Christians in every single muslim country?
5. The writer is correct
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (02.22.09)
But all that good stuff that Jesus said??? That's Judaism!!!
6. Author denies that he is an Israeli Arab
(02.22.09)
7. Mr Zohir Andreus , YOU RESPONDED HERE
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (02.22.09)
You responded , so you had the opportunity to express your ideas .
8. Limits of Satire
Nili ,   Jerusalem   (02.22.09)
Please spare me your garbage. Do you forget the bombs, the nazi supporters, the passion by gibson? Is this not beyond the limits. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. It was a sketch, it was a comedy--get over it!
9. Mary
Mike ,   Russia   (02.22.09)
I am not believe that Mary was virgin. I think it is impossible to have child and being virgin. If you do not believe me ask your wife.
10. We Jews deny Chrisitanity in its entirety
Besalel ,   Kew Gardens, NY   (02.22.09)
Get used to it. In the USA we have documentaries and films denying religions, including Judiasm, all the time. Most recently, a popular movie called Religulous made fun of Judaism and denied it to be true. This is allowed in a free democracy. Get used to that too.
11. Jews against Jews
jodi ,   NOLA,USA   (02.22.09)
It seems funny to me that Jews continue to be blinded to the fact that when they attack Yeshua and his Mother they are attacking Jewish people who have made, arguably, the largest impact on human history. Huge numbers of humanity celebrate Christmas, which is centered around the birth of a Jewish man in a Jewish family. What a great blessing to the whole world that this Jewish man was born to a Jewish girl in Israel! Amen!
12. There's a big difference
P ,   Philadelphia   (02.22.09)
between denying historical fact like Shoah, and denying the content of religion. The myths of our people and the christians and muslims all are situated in times long past, guarded by people who were "true believers" in one interpretation/version or another. The offended christians should look at the effects of the early councils held to decide what was christian and what was heresy - they trimmed the number of perspectives and beliefs on the event down greatly. As I understand, there were a number of christian sects that did not have trinity nor virgin birth nor resurrection - how can a christian feel so sure that "the right strand" of christianity bubbled to the surface, and that it was it, rather than one of the others, that eradicated its theological competitors? If we all believed Yeshua to have had a married (but still virgin) mother and to be the son of the christian god and to have been resurrected, we would all be christian. If you are offended that we do not believe some or all of these things, are you demanding that we all accept christian beliefs and saying that not to do so offends you? I am not ashamed to say that I believe that if there was a real yeshua and Maryam was his mother, then she was probably not a virgin and that Joseph was likely the father. I don't believe there was anything divine about Yeshua, and that if in fact he was crucified, that he died like anyone else, was buried, and that was the end of him. Offensive?
13. what are you talking about?
Asaf Golan ,   SL   (02.22.09)
the entire point of the satire was to deny Christian anti-Semites their "history" as they deny the holocaust. That point was made clearly before the segment. As for "Should anyone in the Western world hint that the Jewish people did not experience the Holocaust in World War II, everyone would enlist in order to put him in his place." we have seen that that is not true. Look at Norway and Iran for just two examples. As for you calling yourself a "Palestinian" I suggest you go to Gaza and drink some water.
14. rising from the dead?? - creepy
AY_Lamb ,   USA   (02.22.09)
15. the limits of satire
stazshu ,   Boonville IN USA   (02.22.09)
When I visited Israel It was obvious that Arabs are treated as Blacks were in USA. So Hear me Oh Israel expect an Arab prime minister in your future.
16. If you are a Palestinian
(02.22.09)
Then why don't you go complain about the programs that are shown on Palestinian TV stations. Israeli TV stations are none of your business.
17. A real joke is the World Council of Churches that supported
Rivkah   (02.22.09)
revolutionaries in Central America and so offended the Salvation Army by doing that, that the Salvation Army pulled out of the World Council of Churches. Such peaceful religions.
18. 9 Mike, Russia: There have been many virgin births.
Rivkah   (02.22.09)
Ask Charlotte Janssen of Arizona who worked at an abortion clinic for many years as a nurse. Girls who did not have sexual intercourse got pregnant from the semen swimming through a boyfriend's underwear when the penis was in the proximity of the inner thighs of the female without sexual intercourse. There are also the Jewish women who wanted to be the mother of the Messiah who were inseminated by a husband with actual sexual intercourse occuring after the birth of the first child. The conception of Mary, the mother of Yahshua, was by the Lord not a human; or the son could not have performed more miracles than can be recorded in all the books of the world put together. The devil can perform miracles, but such miracles are flawed. Healing a blind man who was blind from birth had never happened before in the history of the world, which the Rabbis at the time of Yahshua admitted.
19. Dear Mr.Andreus
Anita ,   Haifa   (02.22.09)
The way I see it is these kind of very small people (Shlein) are so insecure and pathetic with themselves and their religion hence they attack other beliefs. It is indeed shameful and yet another bad reflection of the ugly Israeli.
20. Zohir
Sagi ,   Israel   (02.22.09)
We live in a free country and one of the cornerstones of democracy is freedom of speech. Relgion, all religions are nothing more than an ideology. I have no desire to offend anyone but I feel it would be my right to criticise the basic tenets of any religion just as it would be my right to criticise any other ideology. I am totally irreligious, ardently believe that man must have faith in himself and in nature and that beliefs such as virgin births and ressurection are particularly offensive to my, and for that case your, intelligence. Why, on this basis, should I not be allowed to criticise or even ridicule. Sarcasm is a form of expression meant to criticise and you are completely wrong when you say that if this happened against Judaism on television in America or Europe there would be an outcry. It happens all the time. I can give you a long list of examples.
21. Belgium
Serge ,   Antwerp, Belgium   (02.22.09)
Flemish television is attacking judaism every few weeks. There are no demands from jews to fire people, we do not file lawsuits, we just show that we are angry about what is said, or we show that what is said is wrong. In democracy, and israel is a democratic state, everything can be attacked, and everyone has the right to say his opinion, like you are doing. Go and live in an Arab country, and as a christion you will have to shut up. why do you think that all the christians are leaving the middle east ? My neighbour is a christian from Iraq. I know from him what it is to live among Arabs.
22. Mohammed was a Christian
(02.22.09)
Joke time.
23. Equating Factual Holocaust With Contra-Factual Faith
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.22.09)
The Holocaust is comprehensively documented. Christian faith, by contrast, rather than being documented as true, is well-documented to be based entirely on thousands of redactions Hellenizing a fabricated image diametrically opposite to the historical facts. To suggest that denying facts is the same as denying contra-facts is an egregious and decidedly misojudaic breach of logic. THAT is the " the huge difference between denying the Holocaust and denying Christianity." Christians have ignored for centuries that the LXX rendering of virgin was based on the Hebrew term "maiden." Yes, "maiden" was assumed to be a VIRGIN PRIOR TO MARRIAGE... BUT NOT AFTER. "Mary" is a Hellenized image that was redacted as a revisionist "history" after 135 C.E. by gentile Roman Christians: like Jzeus, a mythical image that is neither holy nor virgin. However inadvertently or untastefully, Mr. Shlein denied a false doctrine of Christianity. In every way that uniquely defines Christianity distinct from Torah, Christianity is false. Deal with it. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
24. Equating Factual Holocaust With Contra-Factual Faith (2nd)
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.22.09)
The Holocaust is comprehensively documented. Christian faith, by contrast, rather than being documented as true, is well-documented to be based entirely on thousands of redactions Hellenizing a fabricated image diametrically opposite to the historical facts. To suggest that denying facts is the same as denying contra-facts is an egregious and decidedly misojudaic breach of logic. THAT is the " the huge difference between denying the Holocaust and denying Christianity." Christians have ignored for centuries that the LXX rendering of virgin was based on the Hebrew term "maiden." Yes, "maiden" was assumed to be a VIRGIN PRIOR TO MARRIAGE... BUT NOT AFTER. "Mary" is a Hellenized image that was redacted as a revisionist "history" after 135 C.E. by gentile Roman Christians: like Jzeus, a mythical image that is neither holy nor virgin. However inadvertently or lacking in taste, what Mr. Shlein denied is an intrinsically false doctrine of Christianity. Expecting the world to accept Christian faith and traditions as "fact" because Christians believe it is tantamount to being required to accept Santa Claus as fact because children believe it. Educate yourself to the history of the period--e.g., via Oxford scholar-historian James Parkes (The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue)--and you'll discover how quickly, and frequently, your beliefs run aground on the reefs of historical facts. If you want to believe things that run contrary to historical fact that's your prerogative and I'm tolerant of it. But when you wish to suppress the exposure of false claims that contradict documented history... you'll just have to learn to deal with reality checks and the real world along with your pretend world, its pretend Israel and its pretend Christ and its pretend salvation. In every way that uniquely defines Christianity distinct from Torah, Christianity is false and prohibited by the very same Torah Christianity (and Islam) claims is its foundation: supersession and displacement theology is an intractable self-contradiction. Deal with it. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
25. zohir, you & lior take us back to the dark ages
rina israel   (02.22.09)
in what has lior offended christians more then he offended jews? how can a reaction about symbol of mary's virginity be compared with reaction about the death of 6 million people in recent history? a symbol, a faith people enjoy or not, worth the same attention as wiping out two thirds of a race? i think it is terrible to compare these issues, zohir, and you don't even disguize this as satyre, it is your true opinion, shame on you .
26. BS...Jewish Religion made fun of all the time...
Eyal ,   Jerusalem   (02.22.09)
This article is BS. Judaism is poked fun of constantly, by Jews and non-Jews. How many sketch comedy shows have made fun of Moses, Noah, the Ten Commandments, etc. And I have also seen Jesus, Mary etc made fun of many many times on US television. All this is VERY different from making fun of the Holocaust. There is simply no comparison.
27. And did god really speak to moses on mount sinai?
Daniel ,   tel Aviv   (02.22.09)
or did rachel really give birth at the age of 80 or older? listen guys, judaism is even more full of myths and superstitions than christianity. if we start as jews, attacking other beliefs, then we open ourselves to being attacked in return. The guy did not aim to clarify his position about the so called virgin birth, he intended to insult christians, this is like telling a young boy in an orphanage that his mother was a whore who died from Aids. whether factual or not, if the intention is to insult, then this is to be condemned. As a secular jew, i care less about what the bible says , but i respect others even though sometimes i consider their beliefs to be idiotic and that goes for jewish beliefs as much as for christian or moslem beliefs.
28. to #22. No Jesus was a Moslem
Palestinian ,   Palestine   (02.22.09)
29. many vrgin births?? - creepier!!
AY_Lamb ,   USA   (02.22.09)
30. It's called freedom of speech
Sharona ,   Jerusalem Israel   (02.22.09)
DUH! Faith is in any case faith and not fact.
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