Opinion
The limits of satire
Zohir Andreus
Published: 22.02.09, 16:01
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31. Denying Christianity? So what of it?Christianity's a myth,
JMK ,   NYC   (02.22.09)
Jesus never existed, Mary and Joseph never existed, Nazareth and Bethlehem never existed that is science, The New Testament is fiction, for example Jesus last words differ not only to each other gospel, but the little hebrew aramaic used he speaks in a hebrew aramaic mishmash, the word in the text translated as foresaken is actually sacrificed, see Hyman Goldin's The Case of the Nazarene, 1948. So how does god get the words wrong, god does not know the difference, how inspired is that, it is not, because the New Testament is fiction. There are hundreds of instance in the NT that are there only in fulfillment of the OT as distinguished from the Tanach a completely different book, The synoptic Gospels books are based upon older myths, what is in Mark is copied 600 times into Matthew and then 300 times into Luke, each copied periscope given a twist to coincide with that author's religious understanding, from god, no it is not.
32. Zohir doesn't like it when the shoe is on the other foot!!
Scott ,   USA   (02.22.09)
Zohir Andreus compares a satire Mr. Andreus also is not a true Christian -- When he says "Mother Mary and her son Jesus, may he rest in peace" he is committing a blasphemy against Christianity. He doesn't understand that Christians believe that Jesus is not dead but resurrected and united with God in the Holy Trinity. As Jews, we don't believe any of this, but that is our right. It is no one's right to question the historical fact of the Holocaust, or of the Arab part in it -- the White Paper that sent so many thousands to the gas chambers and the Struma to the bottom of the sea.
33. Stifle free expression
Debra ,   UK   (02.22.09)
The author claims to live in harmony with his dentities Muslim/Christian, but until these identities reach harmony with their sourse- Judaism, he has no place in the Jewish state. Furthermore, the Jewish state will never change its national characteristics to accomodate his false national claim, it implies a denial of the Jewish state. Freedom of speech does have limits and must not incite hatred that could lead to crimes, but it is meant to stimulate intellectual debates rather than stifle them.
34. The limits of Satire
Ron van der Wieken ,   Amsterdam Netherland   (02.22.09)
Let's not be to apologetic about a slight to Catholicism. The Roman Catholic Church was never over-sensitive herself about insulting the Jewish religion, or the jewish people. Let's not forget that Judaism and Israel are still perceived by the Vatican and by other consertvative Catholic leaders as a permanent affront to their dogma that the Church is the new Israel
35. #28 you are stuck in the past, today you are israeli
wize grandma pali   (02.22.09)
36. "Jesus, may he rest in peace"
barking spider ,   Jerusalem   (02.22.09)
And that from someone who calls himself a Christian??? HAHAHAHAHA
37. christianity
dave garrick ,   auckland new zealand   (02.22.09)
these comments on christians just proves israel is becoming more aware of the truth,a truth it has denied for 2 thousand years,how slow on the uptake can you be?but the bible says JESUS wont come again until a desperate israel kisses his arse as a nation.
38. Andreus is irrational hence cannot be argued with.
bob kirk ,   los angeles, usa   (02.22.09)
Zohir Andreus is irrational and therefore cannot be reasoned with. He operates from an insular Arab position that sees Israeli Jews as 'demonizers of Arabs'. The irony is that it is the Arabs who demonized the Jews for centuries via Islam and Arab Christianity and since 1948 have tried repeatedly to destroy Israel and exterminate its Jews. Bringing in the Holocaust is an immoral red herring. Denying the Holocaust is denying a living memory, a history that many remember and which is documented in vast detail. Christianity is a religion, some of it is factual (but not a virgin birth or rising form the dead or Jesus is the messiah) Jesus probably di live in Nazareth when it was still a Jewish village and preached in the Galil - end of story. Everything else is non-Jews appropriating a Jewish story for themselves and then attacking Jews who don't believe these 'new stories' (Christianity and Islam) Millions of Jews were killed because of this Christian and Moslem anti-semitism throughout the ages. As fof satire of Christianity: it is always hurtful for the devout of any religion to hear mockery of their deepest beliefs - that is simply a fact. It does not invalidate satire but such satirists have to ask themselves what it is they really want to say. Ironically, Andreus claims he is "a non-devout Catholic Christian" so what is his problem? He is unable to see the ingrained anti-Jewishness of his own Arab culture which he defends so passioantely and irrationally. There are millions like him and always will be. Shum Davar.
39. You call yourself an Arab Christian?!
Karim ,   Cairo   (02.22.09)
I am an Arab Christian, and yes while you may be Catholic, and im Orthodox, i am pretty sure Catholics dont say "jesus may he rest in peace" Kind of like saying Mohamed sala 2ala 3aleyhey w salam." Practice what you preach, and dont speak if you dont know what your saying. You meant good, and had good intentions. As of the execution, cant say the same, and yes what was said was wrong, but there are a lot of wrong sattirres and demeaning ones out there, dont be upset by it, let alone make christians look bad by your oblivious ignorance on Christian theology and doctirne
40. Fair Play, Catholics deny G-d and Jesus is their G-d.
Petra ,   USA   (02.22.09)
so, who's the greatest satirist of them all? Even after Jesus birth and his brothers and sisiters, only the Vatican still believes in Mary remaining a virgin. That isn't a physical possibility but, why bother w/ the facts hmmm. odd
41. You are right
Mshe Cohen ,   Isratina   (02.22.09)
I'M A RELIGIOUS JEW, AND I'D FEEL INSULTED IF A NON-JEWISH COMEDIAN WOULD MAKE FUN OF MY RELIGION. IF WE WANT TO BE RESPECTED WE HAVE TO RESPECT THE OTHERS
42. Not to add fuel to fire
Alfredo Raphael ,   Santiago   (02.22.09)
I´m a jew living in diaspora and I consider myself zionist but I think there is enough reason to arabs to hate us to add more. And also is basic thing if I don´t want somebody to do something to me, I should´n do it to him.
43. Clip
Marilyn ,   USA   (02.22.09)
I have last comments on segment. I had watched the clip, I couldn't understand the Hebrew but I found the backround video in which had a series of images to be well, pretty bizaar and offensive. For one thing, It showed pictures of Jesus then a picture of an obese man, then an obese child, etc. I didn't know what this was about. It was almost like an obsession with overweight people. In this, it's not like they had McDonalds or junk food in those days. Also people walked a lot. Someone figured out that Jesus had walked at least like 21,000 miles. Then there was part about Mary (his thoughts about women in general?)and other things. Maybe he had talked about it earlier, but otherwise I'm not sure how we were supposed to get something about holocaust denial out of this.
44. #27-Daniel-- your well balanced, I respect that.
Ken ,   Switzerland   (02.22.09)
45. I think people who don't have enough faith
Ken ,   Switzerland   (02.22.09)
in themselves, need religions to fall back on,( but there all funny).
46. 66% of the world's population denies Xtianity.
Bennie ,   Jerusalem   (02.22.09)
Why is this comedian being singled out for venom? The hateful Xtian religion condemns to hell anyone who does not believe in the Xsus false prophet. Israel can't be subject to XtianNazis depriving us of freedom of speech and freedom of the press.
47. Who says?
Shimon ,   Cincinnati, USA   (02.22.09)
That he ever lived? The fanciful, overblown, edited and re-edited "Gospels" most of which were disposed of by the Council of Nicea? The Holocaust IS and WAS documented, and that's the difference. It does not require "Faith". In fact, that documentation is the greatest DISPROOF of "Faith". Who give's a rat's ass what a bunch of deluded people believe? That you believe someone's satire delegitimizes someone's nationality, morale or religion actually shows how truly absurd you are. That you believe it was designed to do that shows you are paranoid or an idiot. After what your religion has caused to my people, you deserve everything you get. Oh yeah...and it was one of MY people that was crucified, NOT yours. Don't forget that it's a Jew you're worshipping, and his relatives your cousins are killing.
48. Vatican, what about PROPORTIONTE RESPONSE?
The Doc ,   Haifa, Israel   (02.22.09)
Vatica, Pope and all the true (and fake) Christian Israel bashers. You always ask Israel to give "proportionate" answers to its enemies. what about YOU PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH for a change? This unfortunate comedian's joke is NOTHING - N O T H I N G - compared to thousands of years of ANTI JEWISH RACISM (AKA "Anti-Semitism"). Christians and Catholics is special, have murdered, terrorized and ridiculized Jews and Judaism, and many of them - INCLUDING CARDINALS - honored by the Pope himself continue keeping the RACIS ANTI-JEWIS libels alive. You are doing all this rukus to hide your pathetic innate racims and to absolve yourself from the Anti-Semitims CRIME. You and your Pope, including the "honored" anti-Semite Cardinal are all PATHETIC RACISTS and LIARS. Better protect your religion from Islam! Christianism if you fought hard to forget it, is based on Judaism and whose Messiah is a circumcised JEW and according to your New Testament, the son of OUR God! What a painful fact, eh?
49. #42 To Alfredo from Chile
The Doc ,   Haifa, Israel   (02.22.09)
Well, waht did WE do to deserve Holocaust and almost 3000 years of persecution, eh? I guess that "doing nothing" didn;t help too much, did it? Alfredo, many non-Jews - ESPECIALLY rabid Christians and Muslims DO NOT NEED A REASON to hate us! They hate us because we are Jews - PERIOD. When you get this sad fact into your head, you will realize that you need to leave your Nazi and Palestinians-ifested beloved Chile and come to Israel. Only here you get a fair chance to fight and defend yourself! Over there, you are only just another pathetic and ass-kissing Jew, at the mercy of the Nazi scum living in opulence in Punta Carena etc. , and at the mercy of Muslims and of course radical Leftistos! PS: did you know that the biggest Palestinian community is in Chile? You didn't know? Well, then it seems that one needs to live far from Chile in order to see the WHOLE picture! Sorry to sadden your day!
50. It is easy to tear us all apart from each other.
Tony M ,   portland usa   (02.22.09)
Should a being from another planet come to us that being would see three religions who talk peace and mercy, have the same root, and be in the process of exterminating each other because of petty differences. What sheer insanity we live in!
51. ?????????????
dave gordon ,   canada   (02.22.09)
get a life
52. "Denying Christianity"?
Daniel Breslauer ,   Jerusalem   (02.22.09)
Yes, he is denying Christianity. And Mr. Andreus, if you have a problem with that, feel free to move to the Vatican. Jews most definitely deny Christianity, and we aren't going to stop doing that because it offends your feelings. You deny Judaism also, and you see that as your fullest right. We Jews respect the right of all of the world's peoples to practice whatever religion they like. We do not force our religion onto others, nor do we punish those who follow other religions. But we most certainly deny their being 'true'. And we will always keep doing that.
53. Zohir
Walter ,   Portland, USA   (02.22.09)
I think he is playing to an Islamic audience here. Christianity, Judaism, and other religions are routinely attacked and ridiculed in the media. People are not indicted for that. So, his premise is false. Also, Mr. Andreus seems to hold rather non-standard Christian views of Jesus, since he simply refers to him as Mary's deceased son. This is the Islamic view of him.
54. memory
martine ,   ashdod   (02.22.09)
I'd like to remind the author of all the tortures that our people endured bc of their faith in Judaïsm. How many Christians have been tortured by Jews since 2000 years? Not even one. Because we let people live their faith freely, the same today, the Muslims can live their faith quietly, how many Jews can do the same in the Arab countries? No that much. So Dear Sir, you're a Christian that lives in where? Here in Israël, right? I could understand that you could feel hurt bc of the satire, but believe me, that's nothing comparing to all that your brothers in faith say and do against Judaïsm. And if you still live in Israël, I'm sure that as an arab Christian, you know the difference between the democratic country that is Israël and the dictatorships that are all the countries around us. Satire is the sane face of a democracy, you can't say that for all the arab countries in the World. So, please stop whinning!
55. #34 all u did is give him more rating, he's not interesting
rina israel   (02.22.09)
56. Get over yourselves
Steve from Raleigh   (02.23.09)
A billion Christians in the world and you're claiming oppression? Seriously stop acting stupid.
57. Crime against comedy
Joe ,   London UK   (02.23.09)
As a comedy director, the problem for me was that it just wasn't funny. It wasn't the rudeness that made it unfunny (lots of comedy is rude and funny)... the thing is, it wasn't insightful or truthful. There's nothing funnier than the truth, but Shlein's piece did not contain any, so there was nothing to relate to. Shlein is probably loving the controversy - he couldn't get this much attention just on his talent.
58. Freedom
Mike ,   Liverpool   (02.23.09)
I believe everything should be open to debate and question. The holocaust, the holodmor ,the Armenian genocide, all religions, all historical and events. How are we supposed to learn otherwise.
59. False Analogy
p s kahn ,   Paris   (02.23.09)
I think people should respect other people's religion to the greatest extent possible. But there is a huge difference between denying a historical fact of the tragic proportions of the Holocaust and doubting or makaing fun of a religious myth. With all due respect to all religions, they are created by human beings and most are based in part on myths. Rods to not turn into snakes. A virgin cannot give birth (unless seed is somehow inserted in their womb). Sorry, folks, but these cannot be facts; they are beliefs, perhpas with a metaphoric, analogic or anagogic meaning, but not literal truths. Jews (though not all, admittedly) make fun of their religion all the time. So the comedian chose a false analogy, and a commentator here has accepted that analogy, despite its inappropriateness. Was it offensive? Yes, to Christinas, certainly. Was it in bad taste? Well, it was not quite politically correct. Does the Pope deserve the lesson? He deserves a better one.
60. Achille's Heel...
Abdel Karim Salim Sh ,   Jerusalem - ISRAEL   (02.23.09)
Impartiality and objectivity are two rare commodities that very few people possess.Lior Shlein is hereby showing a high degree of immoral behavior,low-class reaction,and poor level of personal ethics.What I can tell is that Lior is hitting not only the Vatican, but all Christians below the belt (which is totally forbidden in a duel ). Lior Shlein is infuriating the entire Christian world just for the sake of penalizing some holocaust deniers. This is absolutely no fair fight. Did Shlein survive "Mary" and "Jesus" to boast openly that the former was not a virgin and the latter was so fat ??? Absolutely not... Let me shoot back : how could I believe " Moses " received the Ten Commandments in Mount Sinai ? Equally ,could " Yosef " have crossed the Red Sea or Suez Gulf while running away from Egypt's Pharaoh and his army ? Likewise my wiseful mind can not believe the prophet of Moslems travelled at the speed of light atop a winged horse " Buraq " from Mecca to Jerusalem from where he ascended to heaven to meet an invisible Allah and his angels... All these seem kidergarden fiction fairy tales... But my point is that Lior Shlein is simply hitting Achille's Heel of Christians by attacking and insulting their religion and beliefs because he knows it is the weak point of zealous Christians ,that weak point that would suffice to make them fume and lose their temper. Fortunately I am secular and religions to me are simply an opiate. Lior's remarks could be the inception of a modern-age violent and bloody crusade which everybody is not in need of.Otherwise,if the Christians' reaction turn out to be painful then Lior would be the right figure to blame and it would serve him right.
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