Soldiers say IDF immoral in Gaza
Roi Mandel
Published: 19.03.09, 10:13
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
64 Talkbacks for this article
1. bs
Mr Moral ,   bet shemesh   (03.19.09)
Roi, You should send your resume to Aljazeera, you would be much appreciated there.
2. It's absolutely fine and acceptable
And let's not forget, Mr. Conscience - people down south are being bombarded by rockets - that's why you were sent in there in the first place. Get off your high moral ground and welcome to the real world
3. A surprise? something new?
Roland ,   Israel   (03.19.09)
I am sure that each solider can tell stories about the war in Gaza. Can war against terror be a picnic party?
4. i was there too
gadi ,   sayeret   (03.19.09)
and i can assure that it was not like this. either this guy is a liar, or it happned in 1 group of stupid soldiers who cant do their job right. plus, NCO is a traitor. no matter what happens inside the idf, you keep it for yourself. it's one of the oldest idf codes that keeps our soldiers and our country safe. let me remind you, that if those people had a gun, theyd kill you right away without hesitation. we went in, did what we were told to do, we did it right, we went out and thats it. the soldier whos whining to the press here better stays unknown. my personal advise to you. shalom
5. what so immoral,
ghostq   (03.19.09)
for having orders that save soldiers lives, true there were some comunication errors but all thos claims in the article by the soldiers prove that all the orders saves their lives, reality do bites.
6. ynet a disgrace
eitan ,   beit shemesh israel   (03.19.09)
It seems that the NCO have come with these stories without the facts as stated by them .when you make accusations without proper facts it causes unecessary antisemitism.I think its disgraceful that you show this stuff without doing proper research,why dont you focus on the the facts like how hamas are murderes all the time.
7. Livesof our soldiers ARE worth more than lives of enemies
AJ ,   tel aviv   (03.19.09)
For the first time IDF rules of engagement actually favoured our soldiers, hence the remarkably low casualty figures on our side. Shoot to kill before it shoots to kill you! The soldiers were given clear orders and did their job professionally. Imagine if the sniper had NOT shot or soldiers had hesitated when entering a building - we may have been mourning more of our boys (and girls). Bleeding heart liberals would rather see bleeding Israeli soldiers and civilians. Sick. FIGHT TO WIN ISRAEL!
8. Thanks, Gadi
Esther ,   Prague, Czech Rep.   (03.19.09)
Thank you, Gadi. This story will damage Israel's image and will be used by its enemies.
9. NCO's testimony
NYC Girl   (03.19.09)
If these events did happen the way it was described, then an investigation is probably necessary. However, let's not forget it wasn't IDF soldiers who forced civilians to shield them and who refused to allow them to leave the buildings they were firing from. That was all Hamas' doing and that's where the blame belongs.
10. Sick!
daniel   (03.19.09)
"the atmosphere in Gaza was that the lives of Palestinians were far less important than the live of our soldiers." This is NORMAL!!! The lives of your soldiers are ALWAYS more important then the lives of enemy civilians. The fact that an Israeli soldier doesn't understand this so very self evident fact, proves that Israeli society is very sick indeed.
11. Sounds fishy
petra ,   uSA   (03.19.09)
It didn't bother me one iota to see the Gaza operation. It would certainly have resulted in far more IDF deaths if they hadn't been instructed to protect themselves in this gorilla style battle. In my mind, every IDF soldier is worth more than any pal who would gladly assassinate one of Israel's finest. I don't care what anyone says, Israel must be defended and protected. Kudos to the military, w/o them, there'd be no Israel.
12. When we dropped leaflets telling them to leave...
Avi ,   Jerusalem   (03.19.09)
They should have. War is hell. And if the choice is between risking our soldiers or their civilians, then their civilians lose. They chose the war. They got the war.
13. to #6 - when is Anti-semitism neccssary?
14. Kill or be killed
Norman ,   France, Eurabia   (03.19.09)
15. The lives of soldiers ARE more important than palestinians
Danny   (03.19.09)
16. IDF morality in Gaza
Jonathan Plutchok ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (03.19.09)
It's right to discuss, and try to reverse, any decline in our army's and our country's sense of morality. However, consider also that our soldiers' and citizens' apparent callousness toward Arab lives could be caused, at least in part, by the gross and increasing callousness, cruelty, and hatred that the Arab side projects to us as well as to their own people, demonstrated by rockets, suicide bombers, hostage-taking, and using children as human shields. Perhaps the Arabs deserve the treatment they get.
17. #4. i agree. better they stay unknown......
18. IDF and "Civilians" in Gaza ?
DT ,   TA Israel   (03.19.09)
There are no civilians in Gaza only Hamas and Hamas supporters
19. NCO, as in Arab Bedouin?
Robert ,   New York   (03.19.09)
In the IDF, they are pretty common, as it gives them a steady paycheck. Not all are in it for the money, but some are.
20. No need to be sorry about anything
Matityahu ,   Slovenia   (03.19.09)
If there's anyone responsible for dead civilians is Hamas. The IDF didn't go around killing anything that moved, but yes sometimes poor judgment and fear for life can make one do things they wouldn't do in a normal situation. But bs liberals will never understand that because they don't serve in the army anyhow.
21. # 4, Well said.
Kev ,   London   (03.19.09)
22. Wars
Proud Israeli Jew ,   Israel   (03.19.09)
"Not nice" things happen in every war. There have been too many incidences where our soldiers lost their own lives while they were being nice to the other side. In war, it's either them or us. And if the other side hadn't been shelling our towns and cities in the South, and if they had returned Gilad Shalit to us, there would not have been a reason for us to go to war at all. Unfortunately we have too many sick Jews who always defend the enemy and not their own people.
23. 1st our soldiers are racest cause they dont rape arabs!!?
rebecca ,   modiin   (03.19.09)
Now they are immoral because they protect themselves and their country, at the expense of their enemies. Who comes up with this rubbish? Can only be people who want Israel to roll over and die.
24. Dear Gadi (4) Kol HaKavod, BUT beware...
ZionistToo   (03.19.09)
Gadi, a big toda to you and your sayeret colleagues. I'd like to challenge you, however, to get a little more sophisticated in your understanding of what makes for a long-lasting ethical military. While certain things stay "in the family," certain things, such as black-flag orders, should not. They infect and demoralize and weaken the forces from within. Silence only keeps ill-performing soldiers/commanders around to misrepresent those of you who are ethical and to endanger you and others. Besides, nowhere does it say that the NCO went to the press. I believe it says he was in some sort of IDF debriefing session and that someone above him made the report available to the press, rightly or wrongly. Maybe the guy is not telling the truth; certainly ynet mislead with its headline that should have clarified it wasn't entire IDF and that the "immorality" is alledged, not proven. But none of this supports your assertion that the guy is a traitor for belatedly throwing a black flag, which should also be done with respect to your brazen threats to those who dare to challenge an unethical order. Such threats don't promise to protect the good soldiers or Israel; they only make brave Israeli soldiers and the country that produces/supports them look morally weak and almost totalitarian. My guess is that if yo uare really sayeret, you know better. G-d bless.
25. Intersting that Ynet not posting IDF-critique TBs. MaKoreh?
26. ghostq-5, shooting to kill unarmed people in home moral?
As we learned the most difficult way in 1939-1945, not all orders are moral. Also, what ever happened to tossing smoke grenades or shooting tear gas into a civilian area/building to flush out anyone without a gas mask? With all due respect for the fear and courage IDF combat soldiers experience and demonstrate, and racognizing that tragedies happen in the fog or battle, what is wrong with acknowledging the tragedy that is the killing of confused and unarmed civilians who may have had nothing to do with the terrorism (and might even themselves have been terrorized and oppressed by Hamas)? While maybe ynet should not have published these allegations unless and until proven accurate, and while maybe the people who did the interview of the NCOs should have kept things quiet until the investigation is at least more complete and showing veracity of claims, none of that makes what was alleged to have happened to be in accordance with what the soldiers quoted understood to be within IDF ethics rules.
27. to 10 etc: So it's ok that lives of israeli civilians not
Jones   (03.19.09)
So it's okay and normal and moral and a sign of a healthy society that Israeli and Jewish civilians are not important to Hamas? It would be just fine with you if, heaven forbid, Iran attacked your grandparents or kindergardeners or came into your house when you're not their, blasting their machine guns at anything, anyone that moved? It would not matter to you that the people killed were unarmed non-combatants? It would not matter to you that the Iranian soldiers only "thought" your grandmother was a would-be terrorist or killed her only because they assumed that, just because she lives in Israel, that she must have voted for and supported a regime bent on attacking Iran? All of this would be "moral" and "ethical" and "normal" to you? And you would call any Iranian soldier who argued otherwise "sick" or a "taitor"? I'm just as supportive of Israel and the IDF and of protecting the brave men and women of the IDF as the next guy (and I have family who count among them), but I also have the courage and integrity to call a spade a spade, as they say, am not afraid of Israel routing bad seeds from the army, and I don't think Israel is so weak that it can't withstand an honest and open-eyed look in the mirror. And I think there are lots of people in the world who will gain respect for Israel for its honesty and integrity in such matters, despite what enemies may think (and they already think and say these kinds of bad things about Israel and IDF; I don't think this will really change that).
28. ICC are you listening?
29. to#26
ghostq   (03.19.09)
in theory everything is good and dandy but, could you tell between Hamas and civilians knowing Hamas don't wear uniform, and many of the houses were booby-trapped,and may I remind you that women also participate in terror, you cant tell terrorist wait I will cheack if you r innocent, in batle you have to make sometimes tough choises in a matter of seconds, so spar me the I am going by the book speach, cause we all know nobody gave an order to deliberately kill civilians.
30. Its unfortunate...
Moshe ,   Israel   (03.19.09)
Most of the talk backs here show that we have lost our morality. When we make a mistake, we should accept it and see that it does not happen again. We cannot just deny. Its our own people that brought this to light, its not Ahmadenajad!
Next talkbacks
Back to article