Jewish Scene
It's never too late: Circumcision at 87
Tzofia Hirschfeld
Published: 05.04.09, 15:17
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1. "Uncircumcised" is used in the English translation Bible for
Rivkah   (04.05.09)
"heathen". Those two words are used interchangeably. My mother-in-law was born and baptised and raised Roman Catholic. But ALL four of her sons were circumcised on the eighth day after birth. She wanted them to be identified with God's people under God's covenant of circumcism. Some of the New Testament contradicts the Torah, Tanak and Prophets because manuscripts were altered in my opinion by people who hated God or hated circumcism or wanted to eat pork and unclean foods or for other reasons. For the Apostle Paul to SUPPOSEDLY say it was not needful for Gentiles to have male babies circumcised, was the same as his saying Gentiles should stay "uncircumcised" or "heathen". I believe that was added to keep Gentiles from entering the promises of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as part of Israel spiritually. The Bible says that by Israel all nations would be blessed. Paul was, after all, a Pharisee. He did not want the blessings of the Jews to go to the Gentiles or else he never said that and someone added to his writings. Cutting off the foreskin was not much of a sacrifice even in Paul's day when the heathen were castrating themselves to be like Mithra and other pagan gods who honor the obelisk penus cult of the devil whose son was castrated. So, circumcism would have been a minor sacrifice for the Gentiles. Paul's writing was corrupted or Paul was a liar on that issue. After all, Paul was not God. He was human and humans are not honest all the time.
2. It is a great tragedy of the religions that were born of the
Rivkah   (04.05.09)
Jewish faith that male circumcism was not instituted. I believe the Apostle Paul's writings were changed or he did not want Gentiles to come under the promises of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with the sign of the circumcism. In the English translation Bible, the word "uncircumcised" is used interchangeably with "heathen." For Paul to SUPPOSEDLY say Gentiles did not need to be circumcised is equivalent to saying they should stay heathen. Circumcism of males was not a great sacrifice compared to what the heathen did for their false gods: burning babies and castrating males. It is time for the religions born of Judaism to go back to the Saturday Shabbat and male circumcism. The promise is that by Israel, all nations would be blessed. To be grafted into Israel, males should be circumcised and should honor a Saturday Shabbat. My mother-in-law was born and baptised and raised a Roman Catholic, but ALL four of her sons were circumcised as babies in a brit ceremony. She did not forget the old ways the the Prophet Jeremiah spoke of when he said the old paths were the good way. Elizabeth Posh Bush walked the old paths with her sons.
3. Is Rabbi David Meir Drukman still there ?
ben ,   singapore   (04.05.09)
are they still at Kiryat Motzken. I recall they had difficulty get the support from the settlement fund. Is the situation solved ? They did very good job with the returning jews, the children of the holocaust survivors.
4. Just a few days ago..
ben ,   singapore   (04.05.09)
after cricket, at the male room, i received another preaching on "circumsion of the heart ", baptism .....bla bla bla.....an so so... the usual standard question sna answers.I told them, well, i was circumcised on the 8th day and there was no need to circumcise the heart, and the Lrd only commanded the penis but not the heart. I do know, this circum is being beaten out of its sacred reasons. Waht choice I had at that age ? Anway no regrets, one of the plus point for jewish boys,,,,the gals simply love us : -) he he ehe eheee :)
5. No longer a secret Avraham age when he was circumcised...
ben ,   singapore   (04.05.09)
well Adam was born without the extra skin, that perfect man also fell.- that is what our sages said : -)
6. now I know what senile dementia means
observer   (04.05.09)
a great number of Egyptian Copts follow the tradition of circumcision; it is in the culture as it is in religion.
7. fair question
Lisa ,   switzerland   (04.05.09)
so to go to the Land of Abraham- heaven to us, I guess- (according to this article and reading about those old men getting circumcised), one needs to be circumcised- how about the women? Before some Rabbi bits of my head for daring to ask such a question: what exactly do women do? Uncircumcised men are called 'heathen'- there is a certain lack of logic here. How do women get to the promised Land? it will be a lonely place if only men go there........ I have often wondered about this.... re Catholic church: traditionally we do not believe in mutilating the body- God created the human body and it is good- no need to brand it...the bond is spiritual not physical. I do not want to know what is wrong with the Catholic church in your opinion- you hate it- I know... but please I would appreciate a serious answer. Thank you!
8. Without A Medical Reason At That Age, Insanity!
David H ,   Marietta USA   (04.05.09)
I am a total believer in circumcision, Jew, Gentile, Heathen, Pagan, or whatever. I am a religious Jew, and a physician. We are allowed, commanded, to break virtually any Jewish commandment when it interferes with personal safety or health. If ever there was a clear cut (ouch) situation, this is it. The man is no less "Jewish" with his 87 year old piece of vestigial skin than without it. If the heredi are upset, let them eat some strawberries. There is NO justification for this procedure in this particular case.
9. #7 Lisa
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (04.05.09)
Fair question implying that circumcision is mutilation...you think like the Ancient Greeks. Female circumcision is mutilation because it involves removing the clitoris...the foreskin is not a nerve-ending. The benefits of male circumcision are multiple.It's hygienic, no helmet cheese and 50% less susceptible to HIV (as proven in Africa) What more do you want?
10. 8 David: Adult males who have a circumcism are in pain when
Rivkah   (04.06.09)
when something causes an erection within a few days of the surgical procedure. It is the swelling that causes the pain. It is unlikely an 87 year old would have an erection after the surgery or before the surgery, for that matter. Abraham was old when he was circumcised in a spiritual covenant with the Lord. You REALLY think it is all right with the Lord to break His commandments when personal safety and health are at stake? Daniel could have prayed in a closet when the King's decree forbade that, but instead he knelt and prayed next to a window where he would be seen. God protected him in the lions' den, which was certainly more risky than a minor surgical procedure. Six million Jews kept the faith and remained who they were instead of hiding under Gentile identities, which meant certain death under Hitler's Nazi Germany and Nazi Europe. Forty million Saturday Shabbat keepers in the Middle Ages in Europe, Jews and Gentiles, died rather than to forsake the Sabbath of the Lord that the Commandment says to REMEMBER. Death was preferable to health and safety and they were well rewarded by the Lord. YOU, however, should change your name to something less Jewish. A David, you are NOT. Evidence of faith is the justification of this surgical procedure late in life.
11. 7 Lisa: Originally, there was a female circumcism that was
Rivkah   (04.06.09)
not barbaric. It was the cutting back of the flap of skin over the clitoris. The Muslims made it a barbaric procedure, cutting off the clitoris, too, as well as the labia majora. The Lord is the head of the man and the man is the head of the woman. Since the minor surgical procedure is not available to women in Western culture, the circumcism of the man is sufficient to cover the household. God nearly slayed Moses for refusing to circumcise his sons, so the wife of Moses took a knife and cut off the foreskins of the sons to save Moses from certain death, otherwise. The male circumcism covers the household. Not being circumcised does not keep a person out of heaven. It limits the promises of God to the person under the covenant with Abraham on this earth.
12. You enter the covenant, not a cultural or fashionable thing.
ben ,   singapore   (04.06.09)
..as practices a frequent gossip these days. The trent these days is that not only they circum but also tatoo, various patterns and picturers. One of my friend recently tatoo a snake , you know where ? I need not say, you can imagine. I play cricket and like car racing, i see many this happening in the male room, what can I say my friends are crazy. Nevertheless they are my friends,we play games in team. But there is one one thing that makes me stand apart even though they are my beloved friends- it that my circumsision is sacred, my body belongs to my wife , a jew in covenant a marriage in covenant an dbundled an burried later in the covenant, By the covenant I enter the holi presence, gracefully we live our jewsih lives.H ehe ehe eh, circums storey is very complex these days , actually it is all sacred, not only we othodox jews keep the observance but w e have the sacred mystery hidden inside us , the soul is married to the covenant so is the body: -) Many think it is cultural, sexy, macho, name it, the list goes on an on. The POINT iS , we are Children of Jacob ( Israel) our baba is Avraham, we keep it going. But than you know the pain we get when we see our boys going though the process ? Even I cried ! There is great mystery behind the circum act , it is simply sacret ! When you see the blood of you own child, it is a very angry feeling, like you are bing circumcised another time.Look we experience circumcison everytime out sons are circumcised, In fcat the whole family experienecd it. We were crying and crying, to the point my wife and I forgot to eat for two days.We just forgot to eat, the boy became so important to us and the community at large. Mama who use to ensure i eat also forgot, she made such a fuss over her first grand son. So There is a great experience in circum observant, covenant= comad= the soul experience it deeply , the most important is the family unity :-) whatt more can I say , no word acn explain , it is like haveing an audience with Malik so sacred , this circum at any age ? Circumsision at 87 or on the 8th day, we know it is sacred in our Orthodox comminity :-) ben singapore
13. Rivkah, You Are A Nut Case
David H ,   Marietta USA   (04.06.09)
Care to discuss the physiological and potentially pathological effects of anesthesia on an 87 male, requesting non life threatening elective surgery? Saved any lives this week, or do you spend most of your time pontificating and deciding for God what His wishes are? Do you know the meaning of the word "hubris" Rest assured, a David I am.
14. 4 Ben: There are two hearts on a man: the blood pump and
Rivkah   (04.06.09)
the head of the penis. When Paul said circumcism was of the heart, he was talking in doublespeak in my opinion. Circumcism is of the heart of the penis. If circumcism was of the heart that is a blood pump, then why does the Bible say the heart is desperately wicked and should not be trusted? The blood pump has to be trusted. The heart that is desperately wicked and should not be trusted is the head of the penis and its desire. THAT is what should be circumcised. I believe someone added to Paul's writings or else Paul was prejudiced against Gentiles and did not want them to be a part of the promises of God regarding circumcism.
15. 13 David: Are you for real? A topical anesthetic like
Rivkah   (04.06.09)
lidocaine or tetracaine would be sufficient for the brit without general anesthesia. A spinal would be possible, too, with full consciousness. You sound like a physician who swats a fly with an iron frying pan. You practice your arts, but the Lord determines the outcomes. Anyone who has been in combat as a medic knows that. One person might die of shock from a scratch while another loses two limbs and lives. Explain to me why the grandson of a former Mayor of Jerusalem died from dental anesthesia when he was a mere boy, not 87 years old? Dentist not paying attention? Anesthesiologists are the most likely health professionals to be drug addicts because they steal the narcotics and short the surgical patients to have their own addictions and highs. Not giving enough anesthetic in general anesthesia or giving too much are both problems. For me, being allergic to synthetic general anesthetics is a life threatening problem since most physicians don't read the allergies of a patient before surgery or if they do, they promptly forget. That happened to my mother four times: surgeons forcing ether on her when she was allergic to it, during childbirth. Doctors are supposed to be smart, but some are not. David means "beloved", so you are saying you are beloved to some people. That is comforting for you to know.
16. #7 Lisa, you seem to be misinformed on the matter.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (04.06.09)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/circumcision.html Read the above article, please. Firstly, the Land of Abraham is the Holy Land - Israel. Nothing more, nothing less. Where you brought it up from is beyond me. Secondly, Judaism does not have a concept of female circumcision - it never did. Nor is circumcision a requirement to "enter Heaven" or even to be considered Jewish - it simply one religious obligation out of many, albeit an important one which is considered central to our identity as believing Jews. Thirdly - listening to Rivkah, who is a rather confused (and confusing) member of a weird Evangelical church that seems to be trying to meld Christianity and Judaism into a single whole, on matters pertaining to Judaism is... not advisable. At best, you will become more misinformed as a result. Now, just to make a few matters clear again - There is NO Heavenly Perquisite for circumcision. There is NO female circumcision in Judaism, or the need for it in the first place. There is no Exclusive Heavenly Male Club in Judaism - everyone is judged by their deeds and obligations set before them. And last, but not least: Considering the fact that the only person to bring up the Catholic Church is a person who isn't really knowledgeable on Judaism, or Christianity even for that matter, the matter is moot. Your belief that your religion is hated by Jews is quite irrelevant to the matter at hand. IF you want to discuss this separately, by all means.
17. in answer to my question
Lisa   (04.06.09)
thank you for all the answers- factual and serious- I appreciate this: #9 MARK: your answer makes sense for a younger man, they are medical reasons (some physicians do not agree, but this is not important here)- however- for a 87 year old these reasons don't make a lot of sense, do they? LOL #11 Rivkah: thank you- I often wondered about this... when did they stop female circumcision? Why? as for the Man being the head of the Woman: this has changed drastically in Western Cultures in the last century or so... maybe not always by choice but necessity. Women wanting to participate in political decisions etc..There are a few gaps in your explanation....read on: #12 Ben: a covenant- your reason I can accept 100% - it however leaves out the women- I am not so sure the covenant by association is convincing me personally. How about women who have no husband, is it the father then? A brother? Women who have no family? There is a link missing- Do not take my scepticism personally, please, I am just as sceptical about some teachings of Christian churches and Islam- I realize one needs mostly faith to believe all the teachings- but blind faith is not always good either. re article: 'next week the organisation is expected to break it's own record by circumcising a 90 year old man'- new Guiness Book of Record entry?
18. to Lisa #7
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (04.06.09)
Only males have to be circumcised. We don't do female genital mutilation. On the Sabbath after a baby girl is born, the father goes to the synogogue to give her a name. If the family wants to they can give a party. We do male circumcision because it is commanded by G-d. It's not required of non-Jews. It's not true that we hate the Catholics. I grew up with many fine Catholic friends and co-workers in the USA. I had great respect for the previous pope who tried to mend relations between us. The jury's still out on the current pope. He has made some bad decisions lately.
19. #16 ROMAN- finally
Lisa   (04.06.09)
thank you Roman- you cannot imagine how pleased I am to finally get the explanation that makes the most sense- the article is excellent- and answers pretty well all my questions- I apologize for the mistake on the Land of Abraham- reading TB is sometimes confusing to say the least- I won't mention names, LOL. re Catholic Church- read the TB about the Pope's visit and tell me I am wrong- The TBs are vicious - there is not a single writer who has anything less than hateful to say about the church, the pope, etc. you get the idea.... #17 Susan- thank you for your positive answer. I agree with you on the bad decisions- it has caused a major upset within the congregation - it is a very huge step backwards, unfortunately.
20. #19 Don't mention it, I'm glad it helped.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (04.06.09)
As for the article on the pope's visit - the current pope is seen as a return to the bad old days. The bad old days tended to involve, at the best of them, mass attempts to convert Jews to the Catholic Church. At their worst, it also involved setting up an entire new branch of the Church to make sure that those of our community and faith who were forcibly converted to Christianity would know their place, at pain of death. And the rest sent into exile. Personally I don't see the current pope as anywhere near what was in those days, but our collective memory is full of such matters. Where Pope John Paul II did his best to avert such memories and replace them with better ones, Pope Benedict XVI seems to be unearthing them. Time will tell where we'll go from here.
21. #20 Roman
Lisa   (04.06.09)
I doubt if the Church under this Pope will go back to the 'bad old days'- I sincerely hope humankind has learned from some mistakes- unfortunately every generation insists on making their own mistakes... so a certain suspicion is perfectly understandable. I think most Catholics are aware of the Vatican's shortcomings- mostly overage men who have not lived in the real world for decades-.The recent turmoil after the Williamson fiasco proved it- people leaving the Church in droves- the only way pro-Jewish sympathy made an impact on the powers in Rom... Catholics used to follow the Pope blindly- some still do- now however greaer numbers of people are more critical- especially on matters that can harm other people..anti- semitism (Williamson and his group, going back to the old easterprayer- which I have not heard since the 1960's in a church!), the latest Aids scandal (condoms), just to mention the most recent. I hope that 'the collective memory' of Jews will eventually at least give people who want to improve relations, give the benefit of the doubt, instead of rejecting them outright- . I do not believe that people are born bad- bad things are taught- and I believe generally things have changed for the better- there is still a lot to improve- but there are steps in the right direction.
22. # 14 Rikva
ben ,   singapore   (04.06.09)
Huh two hearts ? Heart and the head of the penis ? That Mr Paul was a jews of jerusalem, he and Mr. Peter never got along well especially on the issue of circumcision. Come on Rik, it i sthe extra skin that is removed , it is the foreskin not the heart. Maybe your opinion is symbolic : ) Of course their was added varied an subtracted, Evem Mr. J wont agree to many things said therein. Paul knew the Noachide laws, surely he knew the status of the righterous gentiles in his time. The Jews of jerusalem had great respect for righteous gentile and it has not changed since those days. True, many ideas were added to Pauls writings. And actually Pauls and Peter were both prejudice against the Israelite. Such prejudices attracted more fire of anti- semetic biblical statements in the xtain bible. The Righteous Gentiles will always be the part of promises of G-d. we bless them and we share the world with them.xtian preachers been frairing the fire about Avraham's covenant and to date they dont know how many covenant are there made by G-d. cheers ben singapore
23. #17 Lisa
ben ,   singapore   (04.06.09)
Jewish tradition holds the woman in the greatest esteem. Our Sages taught us that women are more similar to the Creator than men. Just as G-d created the earth, it is the woman who bears children. Just as G-d provides the world with its sustenance, it is the woman who embodies the nurturing nature so vital for sustaining life. And it is the Jewish mother who conveys the Jewish status and birthright upon her child, ensuring the future of the entire Jewish people. But it is a Tradition that tells us that a newborn girl is considered "complete" with regard to the spiritual benefits attained through a Brit Milah Zeved habat (Sephardic) or Simchat bat (Ashkenazi) are terms for the ritual for naming infant Jewish girls. These rituals are parallel to the brit milah ceremony for Jewish boys, albeit without the circumcision הַזּאת. וְיִקָּרֵא שְׁמָהּ (בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל) פלונית. בְּמַזַּל טוֹב וּבְשַׁעַת בְּרָכָה. וִיגַדְּלֶהָ בִּבְרִיאוּת שָׁלוֹם וּמְנוּחָה. וִיזַכֶּה לְאָבִיהָ וּלְאִמָּהּ לִרְאוֹת בְּשִׂמְחָתָהּ וּבְחֻפָּתָהּ. בְּבָנִים זְכָרִים. עשֶׁר וְכָבוֹד. דְּשֵׁנִים וְרַעֲנַנִּים יְנוּבוּן בְּשֵׂיבָה. וְכֵן יְהִי רָצוֹן וְנאמַר אָמֵן׃
24. zeved habat :-)
ben ,   singapore   (04.06.09)
Jewish tradition holds the woman in the greatest esteem. Our Sages taught us that women are more similar to the Creator than men. Just as G-d created the earth, it is the woman who bears children. Just as G-d provides the world with its sustenance, it is the woman who embodies the nurturing nature so vital for sustaining life. And it is the Jewish mother who conveys the Jewish status and birthright upon her child, ensuring the future of the entire Jewish people. But it is a Tradition that tells us that a newborn girl is considered "complete" with regard to the spiritual benefits attained through a Brit Milah. Zeved habat (Sephardic) or Simchat bat (Ashkenazi) are terms for the ritual for naming infant Jewish girls. These rituals are parallel to the brit milah ceremony for Jewish boys, albeit without the circumcision הַזּאת. וְיִקָּרֵא שְׁמָהּ (בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל) פלונית. בְּמַזַּל טוֹב וּבְשַׁעַת בְּרָכָה. וִיגַדְּלֶהָ בִּבְרִיאוּת שָׁלוֹם וּמְנוּחָה. וִיזַכֶּה לְאָבִיהָ וּלְאִמָּהּ לִרְאוֹת בְּשִׂמְחָתָהּ וּבְחֻפָּתָהּ. בְּבָנִים זְכָרִים. עשֶׁר וְכָבוֹד. דְּשֵׁנִים וְרַעֲנַנִּים יְנוּבוּן בְּשֵׂיבָה. וְכֵן יְהִי רָצוֹן וְנאמַר אָמֵן׃ “The one Who blessed (our mothers,) Sarah and Rivkah, Rachel and Leah, and the prophet Miriam and Abigayil and Queen Esther, daughter of Abichayil — may He bless this beloved girl and let her name (in Israel) be ... [insert first name here] with good luck and in a blessed hour; and may she grow up with good health, peace and tranquility; and may her father and her mother see her joy and her wedding, and sons, riches and honour; and may they be healthy into old age; and may this be the [divine] will, and say ye, Amen!”.
25. 22 Ben: It is possible Paul was misunderstood.
Rivkah   (04.06.09)
He said "circumcism is of the HEART". People thought he meant a mystical experience when the head of the penis is shaped like a heart and is referred to as a heart in the Bible. "The HEART is desperately wicked and should not be trusted." That has the be the heart shaped head of the penis, not the blood pump that has to be trusted. Circumcism is of the HEART (shaped penis). Paul said that but people who did not want to be circumcised said it meant something else.
26. thank you ben
Lisa   (04.06.09)
thank you for the beautiful explanation on the status of women in Judaism- it shows great respect and appreciation- . I wish you a Happy Passover.
27. CIRCUMCISIN IS MEDICALLY SUPERIOR , HERE'S WHY . . .
MOSHE ,   US   (04.06.09)
THE BRIT PREVENTS : 1 ) PHIMOSIS ( TIGHTENING OF THE FORESKIN WHICH CANNOT BE DRAWN BACK ) 2 ) BALANITIS ( INFLAMMATION ) 3 ) CANCER ( NO CASES REPORTED WHEREAS AS SIGNIFICANT OCCURRENCE EXISTS FOR THE UNCIRCUMCISED ) 4 ) MAKING A LOW INCIDENCE OF CERVICAL CANCER IN JEWISH WOMEN ACCORDING TO " THE JEWISH CONNECTION " BY M. HIRSH GOLDBERG ( A BANTAM BOOK, STEIN & DAY PUBLISHERS, DECEMBER 1977, PAGE 185 ) MOSHE
28. Lisa
Yonason Herschlag   (04.06.09)
Circumcision is primarily the symbolic part of the mitzvoh of the Bris mila, and that symbolic ritual is regulated only to males. The essence of the mitzvoh of the bris (covenant) is controlling our animalistic urges, and utilizing our powers of procreation in a holy way. If a man is circumcized but commits adultery, the ritual won't define him as Jewish. If the person (man or woman) lives according to all the halachic restrictions regarding the covenant of the bris, that is considered a sign that they are Jewish.
29. JESUSALEN
JESUSALEN ,   JESUSALEN   (04.07.09)
Therefore,i will allow him a portion with the great,and he will divide the booty with the strong,because he poured out himself to death,and was numbered with the transgressors,yet he himself bore the sin of many,and interceded for the transgressors(yeshayah 53:12) who is the one who condemns? mashiaj jesus is he who died,yes,rather who was raised,who is at the right hand of G´d,who also intercedes for us(romans 8:34)
30. #25 Rivkah : -)
ben ,   singapore   (04.07.09)
Mr. Paul, could not have been mis- understood at an early Stage , because statements in other books clearly uses the terminology “ beware of the Judaizing danger “…’ the dogs “ .( and we jews were blamed for these accusation, through out the ages ). It has also been perpetrated that among the Jews of Jerusalem, in those days those term used above is a contemporary Jewish term for pagans. The question is if Paul would have used such figurative expression of his followers, even though his follower were jewish ? On the surface it seems that Paul; is referring to jew as such, with their circum issue also at state. The xtian text also uses the word ‘Mutilation “ another derisive term to scoff at circumcision. Actually Paul was comparing circumcision to the self- inflicted mutilations of the baal worshipers and to the practice of the worshipers of Cybele who do slashing .Paul was referring to a separate class of person not the jews who were following him . Those class of persons were not yet circumcised . They were Jerusalen pagans who found the teachings of Mr. J acceptable to them. Paul was actually referring to the pagan cultures practitioners in that context and in that setting of time, space and predicament. Pauls is deadly against the circum ritual being administered to the pagans who want to be accepted into the stream of the early xtian movement. At that same time and setting there were confusion that the teachings of Paul and Peter is the official teaching of the Temple of Jerusalem approved by the rabbis -the Sanhedrin.( a Misconceived Idea that the Jew had opened the door to xtianity ). As a jew Paul knew circumcision is not a matter of justification but of uprightness and a sacred covenant , it is written that circum is the sign of the covenant between YHWH and Avrahams family. Paul also knew that our sages and rabbis of the Temple of Jerusalem and their teachings STANDS as it was, as one and the same teachings from the beginning of time and creation and therefore also knew that the continues act of observing the covenant /circumcision in Hebraic Judaic tradition becomes the sign of the later covenant between YHWA and Israel, for it served to distinguish Israel from the other pagan nations. Paul knew, that Avraham was justified before his circumcision, therefore stood independent of it, upon the uncircumcised too. Therefore we jews stand separate and distinct and our circumcision is pure an sacred. We stand under the tent of Jacob as Israel, we have the lineage of Yitzak ( Isaac). Therefore we jews stand independent but we are not claiming exclusiveness. We carry the burden and the detriment that came with the law and covenant joyfully. It is a joyful burden and a joyful demand to uphold the law ( 10 laws = 613 ) subject to our limitation as human being also. We have been a subject of the Sinai jealousy ever since, please don’t destroy my people….i need not propound on this, you know what the American, British ,European , and ME are doing to Israel. They want to divide Israel.
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