Opinion
Just say no
Yoel Meltzer
Published: 23.04.09, 11:44
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61 Talkbacks for this article
1. Obama maybe think like that
Silvan ,   Paris, france   (04.23.09)
He invited Jordanian and Palestinian leader thoses days: couple Jordania/West Bank. In june, he'll invite Israel and Egyptian leaders: couple Gaza/Egypte (without Hamas, but with those who won Hamas/Israel war...). Pop Quizz: what is Obama thinking about?...
2. Interesing article in this respect is
Rose ,   Netherlands   (04.23.09)
in the Jerusalem Post The jewish Hush hush policy http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1239710701260&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
3. Beggars Cannot Be Choosers
Sandra ,   Haiti   (04.23.09)
This is a sentence I heard often in the my country Haiti. If Israel will keep getting Billions of Dollars each years from the US, then you bet the US has a right to demand some concessions in return. The best thing would be for Israel to stand on its own 2 feet and then be able to do what it wants, but so long as you are fed & clothed by US taxpayers, you better try to follow the orders.
4. Sovereignty ?
American   (04.23.09)
Would mean that the Negev base is no longer there
5. I Could Not Agree More!
Bluto ,   Cincinnati, U.S.A.   (04.23.09)
6. #3 Keep your opinion to yourself
Vlad ,   US   (04.23.09)
Enjoy life, beach in Haiti, if you know what I mean...
7. Terrible Article
Josh ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.23.09)
This article was simply terrible. I wish I had not wasted time reading it. It has absolutely no base grounded in reality, and makes no valid argument
8. Sandra #3 has a valid point
Steve   (04.23.09)
I agree with the tenor of this article but I also agree with Sandra. Israel must wean herself from U.S. aid; from unhealthy dependency. Israel must cease being a child. She must be willing to stand on her own like an adult. Every diplomat worth his or her salt knows American aid buys influence; even immoral pressure to (in Israel's case) make suicidal concessions. When former Prime Minister Netanyahu ran for office in 1996, he pledged he would wean Israel off American aid. Netanyahu failed to make good on his pledge.
9. I usually don't say something
ed   (04.23.09)
but Sandra from Haiti, we are NOT sustained by the U.S.. Jews are sustained by the living G-d of Israel. It may look to the naked eye quite different but the fact remains.
10. to #3 Where do you get your information from?
jason white ,   afula,israel   (04.23.09)
I earn more in one day than the average Haitian sees in a month or more. We are not fed and clothed by the U.S. Never were and never will be! As for orders from the U.S.,then can kiss my Jewish ass! We will not commit national suicide to please a moslim president and his anti Zionist administration. Perhaps if the U.S. listened more to us,then they would see the war on terror through different eyes. Perhaps they would have a president who will lead the war on terror and not surrender to his madrass bros. We should have refused aid from the states long ago and produced all our own weapons. We would really be independent. As a Haitian you should not talk about anyone's economy.
11. Just say no? HA!
secede Texas & Okla ,   from OBAMASTAN!   (04.23.09)
Just say: WHAT FREAKING RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO CALL YOURSELF THE PREZ OF THE U.S.???? Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) has spent $ 1 MILLION DOLLARS to keep the Citizens of the US from seeing if he really is the Prez!! "We the People" have a right to see his real birth certificate, school records, college records, and passport. Yet, Obama keeps them sealed with a court order. He will not prove he meets our Constitutional requirements to be our President! Obama has something to hide! Check it out. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95772 Sign the petition today!
12. Massadah
True Zionist ,   Tel Aviv   (04.23.09)
Let's play pretend. Let's pretend that the most recent public opinion poll of Israelis and Palestinians showed that 78% and 74% respectively want a 2 state solution. Let's pretend that the main policy plank of the Obama administration on Israel-Palestine is a 2 state solution. Now let's not pretend that we are not a partner for peace and have done everything possible to undermine the Palestinians. Let's not pretend that the Palestinians are divided - and that we not only contributed to that division but take advantage of it. We cannot hang on indefinitely to our delusions. Sooner or later we're going to have to negotiate and the Obama government is willing to do much to get us there. Without such negotiations and a peaceful outcome we face a national disaster greater than that already facing us.
13. So it's the One State solution then.
Stu ,   UK   (04.23.09)
Nothing new here. Rejectionism has been the official stance of both Israel and the US for Decades. ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz ! If you reject the two state solution then you accept the One state solution. This will be much better for Palestinians in the long run.
14. Have the guts to tell Obama the following...
FO ,   Belgium   (04.23.09)
President Obama, you cannot ignore that a former president of your country, Woodrow Wilson, went to Paris in 1919 to create the League of Nations, with special attention on creating new nations out of defunct empires. Largely for his efforts to form the League, he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1919. President Obama, you cannot ignore that the 24th of July1922, the League of Nations, in a unanimous vote by all its 51 members, and joinded as 52nd nation, your nation, the United States of America, voted the "Mandate for Palestine". This Mandate recognized in its Preamble "the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country". (In clear: a State). The Mandate survived the demise of the League of Nations. Article 80 of the UN Charter implicitly recognizes the "Mandate for Palestine" of the League of Nations. The Mandate granted Jews the irrevocable right to settle anywhere in Palestine, the area between the Mediterranean Sea and the River Jordan, including the Golan Heights, a right unaltered in International Law and valid to this day. President Obama, you cannot pretend to ignore the League's Mandate, recognized in International Law, and erase it with a wipe of a hand. President Obama, imagine for a moment that the "Thirteenth amendment to the United States Constitution" (abolishing slavery) would be put again into question, how would you feel? Well, Mister President, trying to ignore, to avoid or worse to negate the League's Mandate, would give the Jews the same feeling of injustice, as would be for you the negation of the Thirteenth Amendment. And last but not least, let's not forget that on the same 24th of July, the League of Nations adopted the memorandum of the British delegate, to put all the West of Palestine, the area between the Jordan River and the Desert of Arabia (75% of the total of Palestinian territory) under exclusive British rule. This part of Palestine became later the Arab Palestinian State, called Jordan, with a 75% of Palestinian inhabitants.
15. Ed #9: We "should" be sustained by the living God
Steve   (04.23.09)
The living God looks at a nation of Jewish supplicants that cannot wean themselves from American dependency. We depend on the Americans for our very existence. As we speak, Israel's prime minister is planning his trip to Washington in order to seek his master's approval! Has anything changed? We bow down and worship other Gods. We no longer serve the Holy One of Israel. Oh no. In ancient times the Jews looked to the Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Babylonians and the Romans. All these, all our lovers ultimately turned on us and slaughtered us. Will our American 'lovers' be any different? Why deceive yourself? You and others may dream that the Jews look to the living God but in reality we look to the living Americans who are in fact NOT on our side.
16. say no
mohson   (04.23.09)
This is really the problem. israel had a leader in olmert who was afraid to say no. Abbas said no to jewish state and olmert withdrew it the next day. Turkey said syria needs the golan and so ehud offered it for vague reassurances which meant nothing. Ehud even formulated the gaza withdrawal for sharon which turned out to be a disaster contrary to weissglas. On this sharon was completely wrong meaning abandoninig philadelphi route.PLO insisted on right of return gesture so olmert offered 40,000 over 10 years. The weakling or appeaser does not see himself as an appeaser like neville chamberlain. We saw it. But Olmert thought he was strong, like in lebanon war where winograd said he failed. To this day, Olmert thought that winograd was wrong but set them up as a fig leaf. Olmert has caused untold problems for israel with his cowardice. And Livni who suffers some deficits, doesn't see how wrong she is on policy. I tell you right now, that west bank return and Jeruslame will cause rockets and more sucicide bombing in tel aviv and jeruslame. The former mayor haifa was dead wrong about gaza as olmert and livni were And they are dead wrong about the west bank. Stockpile critical necessities, develop alternate suppliers and say no to the US. One can only hope that olmert's defense will not wash and he will end up disbarred and never permitted to practise law again.
17. Many Obamas... ONLY 1 ISRAEL!!!
Dan the Electrician ,   Pikesville   (04.23.09)
18. Barack H. Obama
Albrecht Klein ,   Germany   (04.23.09)
walks around and believes he can tell other nations what to do (EU-membership of Turkey, 2-state solution etc.).
19. Meltzer conveniently does not discuss alternatives.
Jacob ,   Cambridge, UK   (04.23.09)
There are only four alternatives for the land between the Jordan and the sea: 1) One government for Israel, voted for by Israelis, and one government for Palestine, voted for by Palestinians. 2) One government for Israel and Palestine, voted for by Israelis and Palestinians, naturally ending up with a Palestinian majority. 3) One government for Israel and Palestine, voted for by Israelis and Palestinians, but with ethnic cleansing to provide a Jewish majority. 4) One government for Israel and Palestine, voted for by Jews or Israelis only. Number 2 would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state. Number 3 is ethnic cleansing, as tried recently in Kosovo. Number 4 (essentially the status quo) is apartheid, as tried in South Africa. Numbers 3 and 4 are, of course, morally repugnant, but I don't think that will matter much to Meltzer and his ilk. But on a practical note, If Israel does not want to be treated like Serbia or South Africa, it has to choose 1 or 2. And only 1 will lead to Israel remaining a majority-Jewish state.
20.  just nobama!
oded   (04.23.09)
totally correct.. we , sane jews, have warned everyone of this president's secret, and now revealed aspirations to weaken israel and bring it to its knees... bibi should simply tell, obama, you ain't our mama!!!
21. 2-state solution?
BB ,   jerusalem   (04.23.09)
Besides agreeing with the article's point, the author - like many - confuses the terms: a " 2-state solution" assumes that creating an additional state consitutes a SOLUTION - - which, according to the writer is anything but a "solution." There needs to be more creative thinking to come up with a "solution" assuming there is a solution out there - that would not be part of a larger problem than exists today.
22. Yoel, could you kindly remember and consider...
John ,   Europe   (04.23.09)
1) That you SIGNED for 2-state solution. If you spit on your signature, you loose all support you have: you will be equalized with Hammas, as "not to be trusted". In political arena, that's bad, you know that as a MA in political sciences. 2) That the claim for 1967 borders DOES NOT COME 20 years from now, but from that same year, 1967. O.K., you can argue that it was institutionalized with famous Assad letter in 1972, but still... 3) That Israel LIVED BEFORE 1967 AND WAS NOT KILLED. So you might rethink about your "suicide" theory: before 1967. Israel did not have recognition of Egypt and Jordan, nor at least willingness to negotiate with Arab nations. Israelis then were pretty much as: "Jewish dogs, kill on site". Mitzraim recognized Israel, Jordan did it too. You ponder HOW BIG this steps are. 4) That there is something called INTERNATIONAL LAW, which regulates relationships between countries. And if a recognized country commits armed attack on other country, that is considered WAR. In which occasion Israel would be backed up by its allies, directly, and that would spark a major disaster. Since NO ONE looks forward to Armageddon, there are serious doubts that Palestine would launch a full scale attack on Israel. Also, if 2 states would be recognized, other Arab countries would have no choice but to recognize Israel as well (Saudia is exactly saying that). Also, Israel would have to recognize Lebanon in its full - and vice versa - effectively placing the situation in international law position explained above. That kicks Hezbollah's main cards out of the game and gives Israel a full right of international-backed self defense and to ask from Lebanese government to do something. LEGALY. ALL problems right now is that Lebanon DOES NOT RECOGNIZE state Israel, and therefore, he LEGALLY is not obligated to do something with Hezbollah. So, looking things from this perspective, the thesis of "rockets on Tel Aviv" are possible, but not probable, since that would mean DIFFERENT kind of war that is usually led right now in Middle East. To prove that Palestinians attacked first today is easy - but to prove the same tomorrow would be even easier. BUT THE RETALIATION would be different: today, it is oppression, tomorrow, it is legitimate SELF DEFENSE.
23. Yoel, could you kindly remember and consider also...
John ,   Europe   (04.23.09)
5) That your politicians, who you now shed a bad light onto, once were prominent hawks, but ended their career with serious dovish attitudes. Now, that can be attributed to schizophrenia, but I prefer to call that "seeing the situation from true perspective, not from perspective of war mongering American Jews who discover faith in the end of their morally dubious life and come to Israel to govern how things should be made". Let's peek on few examples, eh? Hence, you have RABIN, who conquered Golan and defended North from Syria, who was once prominent warmonger, sat down with Arafat to make 2 states. You have SHARON, defender of South, the only Israeli General that attacked Cairo and literary SAVED ISRAEL'S EXISTENCE in Yom Kippur war, who disengaged from Gaza and claimed Palestinian rights as a separate people with their territory. You have BEGIN, one of the very founders of REFORM ZIONISM, who surrendered Sinai! You have, after all, BEN GURION himself, who was FOR RETURNING of West Bank, Gaza and parts of Jerusalem RIGHT AFTER the 1967 war (source: Randolph Churchill, Winston S.Churchill, The Six Day War,1967 p.199)? Also, Yoel, remember that most prominent figures of LEFT TODAY - and here I mean Shulamit Aloni and Amos Oz - WERE once a prominent hard-strong Zionist heroes? WHO NOW SUPPORT 2 STATES SOLUTION? So, consider, dear Yoel, this question: why is G-d converting Israel's greatest heroes in prominent "enemy's goals" supporters? No, dear Yoel, the real problem is that good part of Palestinians still believe in Pan Arabia and New Caliphate, and a good part of Israeli believe in "Great Israel". But what changed, Yoel, in last 20 some years, is that the rest of the world just does not give a damn anymore about these 2 groups of people and do not consider their attitudes to be worth of attention at all. So I think that world has evolved. And angry as much as you or other people can, but Yair Lapid (both Tommy and he were, if I remember correctly, also "hardliners" at first) said it right in one interview: "EVERYBODY here, both Palestinians and Israelis, know how this all will end - in 2 state solution. But still nobody is brave or crazy enough to say that out loud".
24. Open your eyes Israel.
Alkalai ,   USA   (04.23.09)
No one can take from Israel what Israel chooses not to give. Tell Obama "NO". He is not a friend. Obama is an anti-semite and is anti-Israel. He has placed the most rabid of leftist anti-semites and self-hating Jews in his administration. Read about them and their policies. He is refusing to sell Israel the F22, and now the F35 and various other equipment. Yet, he is supplying Lebanon and others. Add it all up, and you'll see the truth. Obama is NOT Israel's friend. He wants Israel destroyed and given to the Moslems in a tidy little agreement to get the US out of Iraq, and to appease Iran. Just remember who he bowed to. Israel, stand strong, independent, and apart from the world. Trust only in HaShem.
25. Please, editors, one errata corrigae...
John ,   Europe   (04.23.09)
Ben Gurion wanted to return everything except Jerusalem, Golan and Hebron. It was Bibi who was talking about giving Golan if Syria accepts peace. (Also, another hawk who is learning to be a dove :) )
26. may the writer live on march
ase   (04.23.09)
he forgot to complete beside all the anti-semitism overload list we will lose the only nation we depends on her support,with the poll says over 50% of jewsh hide their idintity what else ?? i had to whisper in the ears ?? and after say no say what ??we could live in peace long time ago befor hizballah,hamas but no noooo nooooo what amagical word
27. Not enough
Frank ,   Canada   (04.23.09)
Saying no is not enough. Obama is selling out Israel because he wants to appease Muslims. Israel must retaliate on American interests in the Middle East. Israel is surrounded by 300 millions of hostile Muslims and cannot accept that a superpower helps them. If Americans want to stay in the ME, they must be friendly to Israel.
28. To #22
Frank ,   Canada   (04.23.09)
The 2 states solution has been tried and the outcome is a total failure. Lessons must be drawn of this failure. Creating a Palestinian terror state is idiotic and certainly not an option.
29. The two-state solution for Israel, Palestinians: A Jewish and moral obligation - Donniel Hartman
Alan Abbey ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.23.09)
Donniel Hartman, shalom Hartman Institute, calls the two-state solution a "moral" imperative that has improved our moral standing even if its implementation has not worked. Read it here: http://www.hartman.org.il/Opinion_C_View_Eng.asp?Article_Id=324
30. For same reason Meltzer says nothing about alternatives
Realist   (04.23.09)
So ashamed to admit it would be an Apartheid state? Or scared to say one man, one land one vote?
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