Regrettable statistical error
B. Michael
Published: 02.05.09, 14:12
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1. What?
Michael L ,   TA, Israel   (05.02.09)
How can you, Ynet, still publish this crap? Ridiculous
2. Predictable, childish and - as ever - missing the point
Matt ,   UK   (05.02.09)
B. Michael, ladies and gentlemen.
3. Gazans have their beloved Hamas government
Ze'ev ,   Haifa   (05.02.09)
Don't associate them with us
4. By Ynet's standards, is this actually considered an article?
Etoile ,   Montreal, Canada   (05.02.09)
5. We are a JEWISH state!
Moreno David ,   Ashdod Israel   (05.02.09)
1. GAZA - not ours 1.5 million 2. Did you see the Palestinians jancing on their roofs when Jews die 2.46m 3. When they double their numbers they get more free food and money from the UN, European Union and fellow Arabs. DEDUCT HALF. 4. Remember that there is no West Bank - it is Israel - and the enemy have to leave.
6. Population Statistics - Regrettable Error
Gary Leber ,   Melbourne, AUSTRALIA   (05.02.09)
B Michael has made a regrettable error: the Israeli Government does not rule over the Palestinians in Gaza and also in the part of the West Bank controlled by the PA
7. Y-Net has lost this reasder
ezra ,   toronto   (05.02.09)
8. consider this artcile warning
Liron ,   Zichron   (05.02.09)
This article is simply a warning as to what happens if we do not separate from the Palestinians. If you don't want Jews to be a minoirty, then its time to commit to 2 states.
9. this is the future
sharon ,   near Gaza   (05.02.09)
for all those living in another world, what is written here is the truth!! Israel will continu losing its majority if we rule another people.
10. Trashy article,one of TOO many .
Trumpeldor   (05.02.09)
11. So it is Palestine, not Israel !
Nour ,   Palestine   (05.02.09)
If you claim otherwise, you are a bigoted, racist, liar. No point in window dressing, let's put it as it is, Israel subjugates the majority of people whose land it has annexed illegally to its phoney "state of israel". Thank you YNET for another reality pill. May those blinded by creed and dogma see the light of the civilized world. It's only a matter of time before the one-state solution is imposed on the Apartheid regime.
12. Sarah, come out of your hiding!
Nour ,   Palestine   (05.02.09)
13. Don't panic, Palestine will be a state for ALL its citizens
Nour ,   Palestine   (05.02.09)
14. Israeli empire?
withheld ,   Copenhagen, Denmark   (05.02.09)
Is this a typo, or did B. Michael really mean what he wrote?
15. More non-Jews for Ahmedinejad to wipe out if he nukes Israel
Bottom Line ,   Reality, Israel   (05.02.09)
16. Ynet's error
Daniel   (05.02.09)
The PA Arabs are NOT citizens of Israel. Take France, for example. There are a good number of foreign citizens living in France who do NOT hold French citizenship. They own homes, they live there most of the time, they may work, they pay taxes. But they are not citizens. And I'm talking about legal residents of France, not the refugee or illegal population. That's why the argument offered on this article is disingenuous. Furthermore, the Arabs living in Judea and Samaria used to have Jordanian or Syrian citizenship. How about that? They and their children do not become Israelis just because Israel reconquered territory that the League of Nations had assigned to the Jewish state back in 1919, an agreement reneged by the British in their effort to give the Arabs land that wasn't theirs to give. One important issue to take into consideration is that Arab emigration has been discouraged by Israel and the PA and even banned, as in the case of Gaza, which skews these figures even more, because a good percentage of the Arab young population would rather emigrate than live in the Middle East, whether under Jewish or independent Arab rule. So I keep asking, why is Israel blockading Gazan emigration and not aiding in the emigration by PA Arabs. This is not a politically delicate issue but one of human rights. Israeli Jews are free to emigrate to the US or Europe. Why not the Arabs? And Arabs should have the right to sell their property to whoever they want, without being intimidated by PA threats.
17. the real happy news on the occasion
observer   (05.02.09)
whether 75.5% or 49% Jews; it is the racism which makes the happy news for Israel, apartheid!
18. Intentional "Eyes Wide Shut" Spin
PunditRich ,   Wisconsin, USA   (05.02.09)
No doubt this and other revealing truths will be deeply reburied!
19. Amazing
Ari   (05.02.09)
It never ceases to amaze me how intellectually dishonest B. Michael and his left wing comrades are. Sharon unilaterally withdrew from aza with the support of the left and now you "correct" the numbers by including the gaza arabs after having used them as your core argument to justify the withdrawal ...."We wont be there in the end, there are 1.5 million arabs there" -Arik Sharon. pathetic how you leftists like to have your cake and eat it too. Maybe try and be intellectually honest for one damn minute in your life B. Michael.
20. imprecise terminology
tom ,   toronto, canada   (05.02.09)
what does this article mean by "palestinians"? the use of "palestinian" to mean "arab" is a newfangled invention of the anti-israel propaganda machine. every israeli is just as "palestinian" as every jordanian and every resident of the (plo-occupied) west bank and gaza. "palestine" has been the name of the jewish homeland from roman times until 1948. it only clouds the issue to refer to arab israelis as "palestinians", and it creates a false identification with the arabs of the west bank and gaza. this is both untrue (many arabs CHOSE to side with israel in 1948, entirely not by accident), and dangerous, because it pushes arab israelis into the nationalistic camp. perhaps the true intent of the writer is best revealed by his use of the term "israeli empire" - israel has never exhibited imperialist ambitions, except in the imagination of the anti-zionists.
21. Can we say, Ideological Agenda, boys and girls?
truth   (05.02.09)
A. Israel does not possess an empire. B. Israel does not rule over the West Bank or Gaza. C. Israel does have the parties of Hamas or Fatah as part of the Knesset. D. This article and author's political agenda is showing....EW...PULL down your shirt!
22. I knew that BM is stupid but THAT stupid?
Ron ,   LA   (05.02.09)
23. "The Israeli Empire"? A country the size of Wales in the UK
Dalia ,   Kibbutz Hahotrim   (05.02.09)
and New Jersey in the US?
24. Government of the Palestinians by the Israelis for the Jews.
Jacob ,   Cambridge, England   (05.02.09)
The status quo is not sustainable. Although it clearly does not want to admit it, Israel currently maintains an empire, ruling the Palestinians but not letting them vote. If Israel wants to continue to control the lives and homeland of the Palestinians, it must let them have an equal voice in the selection of its government - which is to say, cease to be a Jewish state. If Israel wants to remain Jewish, it must withdraw to the Green Line.
25. Such thing as Israeli cirizenship cancelled?!
Alex ,   UK   (05.02.09)
Was it a census among passport holders and permanent residence permit holders? Very innovative way of smuggling people into the country, really. Who pays for this "article", Hamas? why is it pubished here?
26. Your regretable statistical errors
Yael ,   Tel Aviv   (05.02.09)
B Michael is quoting figures that the Palestinian Authority has admitted are incorrect (and vastly inflated) and has made some corrections, but not all, to their census data not reflected in the numbers Michael provides. They count Jerusalem Arabs in their West Bank population -- Israel counts these same people in Israel's population, therefore these people are included twice. Further, unlike Israel who does not count citizens who have moved abroad, the PA continues to count those who now live in Canada, France and elsewhere AND includes an estimate of how many children they have based on population growth records from the 80s (in other words, theoretically how many children they may have). His numbers are off by a total of 1 million Palestinian Arabs, the combined population of the West Bank and Gaza is slightly above 2.5 million-- see The Million Person Gap
27. Israel CANNOT be said to control Gaza
Gilad ,   London UK   (05.02.09)
I don't know about the accuracy of the stats, however Israel cannot be counted as a soverign occupier because that, under certain requirements, requires the occupier to have the military control over the area. Israel may have managed to cause a blockade AROUND gaza as a result of the non-stop attacks on Sderot and the south, but it has absolutely no forces within Gaza. Therefore, under int'l law, it cannot be counted as an occupier, even if that is yet to be officially ratified. So this article is nonsense. While we should be weary of any negative trends that threaten Israel, we should not be duped by pamphlet-style propaganda - in any political persuasion.
28.  they increase 10 fold in 61 years, arabs too made an aliya?
that's what happens when the state cant demolish illegal property, used to harbour arab infiltrators . jews and arabs started off in approx. the same number of people in 1948, and 61 years later they wind up in the same numbers also. seems jews and arabs made aliyas, jews in waves, and arabs in undercurrents.
29. what is the alternative? their state shall be militarized in
no time,dont b naive   (05.02.09)
30. False Data provided by the PA is a strong tradition! US uses
Jae ,   lynn US   (05.02.09)
the PA figures which inflate their numbers. The Palestinian Census: Smoke & Mirrors By Yoram Ettinger February 11, 2008 The Feb. 9, 2008 Palestinian census is not a cause for fatalism. In contrast with the census, the accurate number of Judea & Samaria Arabs is 1.5MN, and not 2.3MN, and the number of Gaza Arabs is 1.1MN, and not 1.5MN. The Palestinian census is refuted by Palestinian, Israeli and international documentation of birth, death, migration, first-graders and eligible voter registration in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, which has been systematically conducted by the Bennett Zimmerman-led "American-Israeli Demographic Research Group" (AIDRG). While the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) contends a 30% population growth during the last 10 years, the World Bank documents a substantial erosion of the Palestinian fertility rate and a significant escalation of emigration from Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The World Bank documents a 32% gap between the number of first graders per PCBS projections (24% increase) and per Palestinian Ministry of Education documentation (8% decrease). A strange co-incidence has produced similarity between the 2007 census and the PCBS 1997 projection toward 2007, in spite of dramatic volatility in the areas of security, economics and politics, which has occurred since 1997, and which has caused a boost in Palestinian emigration and decline in fertility. For example, terrorism and counter-terrorism, the Hamas-Fatah war, unprecedented (over 30%) unemployment, the rise in the price of oil and a corresponding rise in demand for manpower in the Arab oil producing countries, intensive UNRAW and PCBS-led family planning, an unprecedented reduction of teen-pregnancy, a swift urbanization process, an all-time-high Palestinian divorce rate, an impressive expansion of the education system and the increase in Palestinian median wedding-age. The 1997 PCBS projections have been refuted annually by the documentation produced by the Palestinian Ministries of Health and Education and Election Commission, as well as by Israel's Border Police and European observers, monitoring exists and entries through Israel's, Judea, Samaria and Gaza?s international passages. While the 2007 census ignores the bolstered emigration phenomenon, Israel's Border Police and the European Observers have documented net-emigration of 12,000 in 2004, 16,000 in 2005 and 25,000 in 2006, with expectation of a significant rise in the scope of 2007 net-emigration. The extent of 1997-2003 average annual net-emigration was over 10,000, which has characterized the entire period since 1950! According to the PCBS website, the 2007 census was based on the 1997 census, which was inflated by 30%, growing exponentially by the year. Thus, in contrast with internationally accepted demographic standards, the 1997 census included 325,000 residents, who stayed abroad for over a year, as well as students, who studied overseas, irrespective of their study period. Israel subtracts from its census Israelis who are away for over a year, and restores them following 90 days of stay in Israel. The 1997 census included 210,000 Israeli Arabs, bearing Israeli I.D. cards, who were doubly-counted: as Israeli Arabs by Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics and as West Bank Arabs by the PCBS. In summation, the 2007 census for Judea & Samaria was inflated by 53%, and the Jewish-Arab proportion west of the Jordan River - without Gaza - documents a robust Jewish majority of 67%, compared with a 33% Jewish minority in 1947, including Gaza. The most effective symptom of the transformation - from Arab to Jewish demographic momentum - has been the absolute annual number of Jewish and Arab births within Israel's "Green Line." While the number of annual Arab births stagnated at 39,000 between 1995-2007, the number of annual Jewish births catapulted by 40% from 80,400 in 1995 to 112,000 in 2007.
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