Jewish Scene
Rabbi: Pope visit contradicts Judaism
Efrat Weiss
Published: 10.05.09, 14:06
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
57 Talkbacks for this article
1. Inquisition
Yisraeli   (05.10.09)
Also dont forget prior to becoming pope he headed the office of the "Holy Inquisition" known by another name these days something 'faithful of the doctrine'. Reflect for a moment just what the office of the Inquisition meant to our people. How much pain and death they caused first hand. How many burnt at the stake raging for over 6 centuries. How much property and goods confiscated by the church. No quite frankly Id tell him visit as a private person if you like but not as representetive of this EVIL catholic church that has caused our people so much harm and damage that no apology can make up for. Stay home and there play god as much as you like but dont insult us with your presence.
2. all the popes
eliezer ,   jerusalem   (05.10.09)
All the popes encouraged anti-semitism, they forced the Jews to live in the ghettos, they influenced their Catholic body to hate Jews, to deny them the means of making a living. Their monks and ministers incited pogroms and murders, raping and taking our property, and now this guy comes here and wants us to respect him?? Thanks to Napoleon, that the Popes were cut down from their large evil influence in the world until today they have little to offer, and this one comes smiling like Mr. Good Humor. What an insult to humanity for anyone to even ascribe to be a pope.
3. We are all God's Children
cas reader   (05.10.09)
Jews should stop whining about the Catholic Church. Yes, there were Catholic individuals who have aided the Nazis during WW2, but pls stop blaming the Catholic Church as an Institution. Secondly, Jews must also understand that the Catholic Church does not speak or act on behalf of all Christians. There are many Biblical Christians who have been and always will be supportive of Israel. Mind you that Christians in general are more supportive of Israel than some Ultra-Orthodox Jews who do even recognize the State of Israel.
4. This is a little off topic, but I want the Pope to change a
Rivkah   (05.10.09)
policy. When Roman Catholic priests are wrongly accused and aquitted, I hope the Catholic Church and the priests stop forgiving the person in public statements or in prayer. When Job in the Bible was accepted by God toward the end of his troubles, the Lord suggested Job pray for his friends who slandered and mistreated him. Job did NOT pray for his enemies, but he did pray for his friends. He did not HAVE to pray for his friends since the Lord accepted Job (saved him) regardless of Job praying for those who mistreated him and slandered him. But IF Job did not pray for his friends who slandered him, God would not have accepted them and they would have gone to hell. Priests who are wrongly accused (not the ones rightly accused) should not pray for God to accept the false accusers. In addition, the wrongly accused priests should ask the Lord to avenge them. Vengeance belongs to the Lord and I have found the judgments from such a request from a wrongly accused saint of the Lord like myself encompass the entire authority or jurisdiction of the wrongful accusation. When the State of California allowed the misuse of authority against me without apology or compensation and I asked the Lord to avenge me, the entire State came under judgment. A drought resulted in the loss of many many billions of dollars of tax reveunues from crop losses and thousands of fires destroying homes and businesses. King David faced a drought in ancient Israel by asking the Prophet what the Lord was angry about that resulted in a drought. David was told that King Saul had mistreated the Gibeonites and they were asking for God to avenge them. David appeased the Gibeonites and the drought ended. I will have to be appeased for the drought in California to end. Imagine the destructive effects of Roman Catholic priest who do not pray for false accusers but instead ask the Lord to avenge them.
5. jewish asset in the vatican
COHEN ,   ASHER GERALD   (05.10.09)
Now that he is finaly visiting israel it is maybe teh time for them to face reality and talk about the jewish asset locked under the Vatican. Maybe it is time to face there one reality and stand with tehre lie about there religion and teh foundment of it. Maybe it is time to recognize that jesus was the son of a jew but was not a jew! Maybe it is a good time for all of us to talk about the true.
6. The Pope said he will be visiting as...
Norway   (05.10.09)
a 'pilgrim of peace.' 'It will serve the cause of peace much better if this visit is taken for what it is, a pilgrimage, a visit for the cause of peace and unity,'(Yigal Palmor). PALESTINIANS SEEK PAPAL PRESSURE ON ISRAEL http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/05/08/world/AP-ML-Holy-Land-Pope.html?_r=1 Islamists say Pope's Mideast visit provocative because he has not apologized for offending comments implying Islam was violent and irrational. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/07/AR2009050701793.html JESUS OF NAZARETH: Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, BUT A SWORD. Matthew 10:34 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I TELL YOU, NO, BUT RATHER DIVISION; Luke 12:49,51, 14:26 Surely, this does not portray someone who is called The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:5-6 – Historic Events or Messianic Prophecy? http://www.messiahtruth.com/isa9.html
7. I don't think
ghostq   (05.10.09)
they protested when the privious pop came to visit, the WW2 is just an excuse for them to get attention, what happend to the next door neighbour(Jorden) is irrelevant, since when jewish religious leaders care what muslem leader do or think.
8. to #4 the roman catholic church
ghostq   (05.10.09)
won't make oficially apologetic anounsment, it never did before, so y now? don't count on it, as you said the real judgment is in gods hands now. wow not bad I am using rivk English, English rivk dictionary, it is very handy. ;P
9. #3 come on now
eliezer ,   jerusalem   (05.10.09)
You are either a catholic or imbecile. The popes through the ages were the word and driving force of anti-Semitism. Although they may not have killed with their own hands, with their tongues and decrees, they cause more Jewish blood to flow then the Nazis who merely continued the anti Jewish hatred that the church had started. Go learn history with two eyes!
10. to #3 well said, you right
ghostq   (05.10.09)
thos who shout r actually the one who don't respect Israel(meaning Orthodox jews).
11. Eliezer # 2
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (05.10.09)
Yes , popes did encourage antisemitism , yes there was the inquisition , and so on . But don't fortget that , even if the then pope was silent , tens of thousands Jews were hidden in Catholic institutions during WWII , thousands of children were saved by Catholic priests and nuns . If you think it's an insult to welcome him , you may think the same of many , if not most , heads of state we receive . Jews in their states were also badly treated during history .
12. If what the Rabbi says is true...
Walter   (05.10.09)
Then there can be no complaints from Israel when Muslims do not forgive or forget what Israel has and is doing to their Palestinian brothers. If it is a matter of "all sins will be remembered and held against them", then it should go both ways. Even though the Rabbi's characterization of what happened in the Shoah is historically wrong, he should have no problem with those who treat him as he treats others.
13. Christian religion
AJS ,   ASHDOD   (05.10.09)
Christians are the salt of the earth wher ever they go nothing grows.
14. Shalom!, you could have said that before Pop's visit
observer   (05.10.09)
15. Walter #12
Steve   (05.10.09)
Unlike the Moslems, the Jews were not committing acts of terrorism and violence in Europe. Jews did not send their children out as suicide bombers. The Moslems have been perpetrating terrorism and violence well before the 1967 Six Day war when Jordan lost the West Bank and east Jerusalem, Egypt lost Gaza and Syria lost the Golan to Israel because of their unprovoked aggressions. Jews were slaughtered by the Moslems through the course of the 1929 riots in Hebron and Safed. Why?
16. Charles #11
Steve   (05.10.09)
Scholars that have studied and written about Pope Pius XII - the pope during the second world war - do not contest that at a level of basic charity, he ordered Jews be hidden from the Nazis when they occupied Rome. There were Jews who were hidden as you say, in Catholic institutions during the war; saved by Catholic priests and nuns. This occurred in parts of Europe without any known direction from Pius or the Vatican. Indeed there were righteous men and women who risked their lives in order to save Jews from the Nazis. They did it largely according to their own individual consciences. The point is, as you say, Pope Pius XII was silent. He refused to condemn the Nazi genocide; instead drawing a moral equivalence between Nazi atrocities and the Allied response, just as the Vatican and much of the international community do with Israel and her enemies. Pius was the silent pope. Some believe his silence was motivated by anti-Semitism as well as a deep bond with the German people. There is no justification for silence in the face of a great moral evil, especially on the part of the clergy.
17. AND ALL THIS FOR A REBBE
pepe   (05.10.09)
The catholic church did not help the Nazis slaughter Jews.The Nazis helped the church in order to accelerate the process. Through innovation, dedication, efficiency, in 10 years they outdid the church who has been at it for 2000 years. And all this for a rabbi.
18. Rabbi: Pope visit contradicts Judaism
Paul ,   dublin ireland   (05.10.09)
The comments of Rabbi Dov Wolpe are in themselves incitement to hatred, and riddled with inaccuracies. I suggest Rabbi Wolpe look up the meaning of the word annihilate before he uses it indiscriminately. His comments are unfair, disingenuous and unhelpful.
19. To#9 ppl like you who are a disgrace to Israel
cas reader   (05.10.09)
I'm Jewish and believer of Peace, Forgiveness and Mutual Respect for each others religion.
20. 13 - jewish population grew in america
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (05.10.09)
funny how jews have it better than anywhere in jewish history in america, surrounded by all those christians in the historically christian influences. salt of the earth.
21. Religion
Grant MacDonald ,   Toronto Canada   (05.10.09)
Homophobia and religious extremism. When one studies civilisation and finds that the Irish people are 60,000 years old; 54,000 years older than the Jews/Palestinians; Egypt or Greece and that the myth of Catholicism or Christianity is a mere 2009 years old; one soon realises that there is little evidence to prove any of the cross related bogus elements of that cult. In the year 300 AD when Emperor Constantine who to some was the first pope; went on to fabricate Christianity - a fantasy - which turned out to be one of the most hateful & evil concoctions ever perpetrated on the world. The Vatican supported Hitler and religion is responsible for more corruption and violence in the world. Pope Ratzinger was involved in the Nazi youth. The Pope & Vatican with its blatant witchcraft related to the bible and its hateful beliefs; tries to rule with extreme prejudices against the world … that may fall victim to religions' absolute evil. To think of Matthew Sheppard choking on his own blood after being savagely beaten; virtually sanctioned by the church ... is beyond comprehension … yet is the same as boys being bullied into suicide; most likely being supported by their parents’ religious beliefs. What ever happened to … "Love Your Fellowman?” Perhaps the evil preachers should be told to take their cult out of America. Didn't Thomas Jefferson say that church and state should be separated by a wall and it's written in the Constitution that there must be separation of church and state. Bigotry and hatemongering against gays should be banned. Tell them to take that cross and shove it where the sun don't shine ... and pay their taxes along the way before they take that cross down forever ... with its final station; extinction. It is written; so therefore it shall be? We are the chosen people? Who wrote that crap? United States is supposedly fighting for democracy? It is suppressing gay rights and following an extremist religious & bigoted family values path according to a basic cult riding roughshod over the rights of gay people. Canada and Britain are more civilized with its military and basic dignity. We must respect that these fine dignified gentlemen … His Excellency Governor Schwarzenegger, The Honorable Attorney General Jerry Brown, His Excellency Mayor Gavin Newson, Assemblyman Tom Ammiano & The Honorable Rep. Barney Frank (D) who is personally openly gay … are trying to guarantee equal rights and reflect the respect shown to all; as stated in the American Constitution. To see the religious lunatics manipulate government and our lives … is shameful. This bogus religious filth should be banned. It exists as a tax exempt structure which discriminates against human rights. The pope, bishops and mormons are cult members promoting discrimination against minorities. That bogus black book called the bible should be banned. Religion and the churches should now be exposed as a bigoted structure that gets away with hate mongering. Love between two guys or girls existed long before these cults existed. By enjoying their tax exempt status and benefits from the state ... it also puts them at the mercy of America; to be forced to adhere to the human rights laws.
22. pope
elliot ,   usa   (05.10.09)
keep your friends close-your enemies closer
23. #20 - Yes!
Christy ,   Boston, US   (05.10.09)
Jews have been welcomed to the US before it was the US. I'm not saying there's been no prejudice. The Jews had the same experience as the Irish. Couldn't imagine the US without either group! One of the main reasons the US is so supportive of Israel and the Jews today is because of the large number of Religious Christians.
24. Paul in Ireland:You should perhaps check history
Arie ,   BaGolan   (05.10.09)
The vatican has been at the forefront of attempts to annihilate the Jews since the 4th century. From blaming us for the Black Plague, to pogroms, to the inquisition, to kidnapping and forced conversions, to the Shoah, to assisting nazis escape justice after the Shoah, to Shoah denial, and today DEMANDING we cede sovereign Israeli territory to the vatican. there has not been an era in the past 1700 years that has not included vatican-inspired genocide against us. The term "annihilate" fits that quite nicely! While you may disapprove of his comments, they are nevertheless quite accurate!
25. Blaise Pascal
AY_LAmb ,   USA   (05.10.09)
"Never do men kill each other so cheerfully than when it is in the name of religion" deist vs theist = interesting and provocative study.
26. Meir and Einsten didn't agree Rabbi
Maureen ,   NY   (05.10.09)
Golda Meir, Albert Einstein, the Chief Rabbi of Rome and many other Jews WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE disaggreed with you Rabbi. Please learn the truth. Pius XII ordered that Jews be hidden in convents, monasteries, and anywhere necessary. He was called 'the Jew loving pope' by Hitler and the Nazis. The Church was retalliated against for its verbal chastisements of the Nazis. We lost many priests and nuns to their barbarisms also.
27. error in title
david ,   naharia   (05.10.09)
this visit contradicts reason, as well as all religions do. so let's abolish religion, as we (thinking humans) abolished slavery
28. We shell never forget
Dr D ,   Jerusalem   (05.10.09)
but maybe the time arrived to forgive. Just remember that those who persecuted us in the past and hate us today are only humans and God have nothing to do in all that. He is only waiting for our souls and I am sure that he never authorized any killing in His Name. We all live with the illusion that somehow we are superior to other but genetically we are all the same and compatible.
29. Where Are All Of The Defenders Of Free Speech???
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (05.10.09)
Can't even carry and hand out leaflets condemning pope's visit??? Where are the big mouths for democracy and free speech now??? What the police probably can't prevent you from doing is lining the parade route like everyone else then turning your back to him as he goes by. Christian misojudaism started the same moment as Christianity, in 135 C.E. with the need to discredit Jews in order to usurp Judaism, Jewish leadership (paqid) of the Netzarim, Torah with their Null Testament, and Yerushalayim with Rome and renaming Yerushalayim Aelia Capitolina and renaming Israel Palestine. Instigating the blood libel began the same time and it has never ceased; nor shall it until Christians learn to abandon their counterfeit with its pretend salvation and turn to Torah for kipur. Paqid Yirmeyahu The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah Jew (Orthodox Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il
30. Steve 16
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (05.10.09)
Not only was pius XII silent during the war , but also after . He even then did'nt condem the nazi atrocities . No known direction from pius nor the Vatican , you wrote . But on lower levels , bishops were involved , condemned openly the nazi atrocities [ Toulouse , Holland ] Others knew about the activities of their priests , and maybe even encouraged them to do it .
Next talkbacks
Back to article