The battle for democracy
Ramat Aviv Action Committee
Published: 14.05.09, 18:40
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1. truth
Michael ,   Haifa   (05.14.09)
The truth seems to have many faces...from past experience, the truth in this account, sounds most reasonable
2. what is your version of plural?
Lin ,   NY, NY   (05.14.09)
sounds like you are not so plural at all in swanky ramat aviv, nor tolerant. your 'article' smacks of misinformation and you have selected one or two incidents to be a systematic truth. is that wise? how many secular 'incidents' could be brought up that shows a perhaps unattractive side to the non-religious?
3. change orthodox to Arab and secualr neighborhood to Israel .
Golan ,   SL   (05.14.09)
change the adjectives and we have something to talk about. Instead of orthodox change it to Arabs and instead of secular neighborhoods change it to the land of Israel and we have a national policy to protect Israel. You cannot have it both ways. And that is the hard part.
4. Sad but not too late to change
JK ,   Brooklyn, NY   (05.14.09)
It is sad that you feel like that, that you ascribe to Chabad everything you know will infuriate other people that consider themselves traditional or secular and rally them to your point of view against Chabad. You know that Chabad does serve in the army, and you know that chabad never made differences between Ashkenazim and Sfaradim, etc , but you ascribe all this to Chabad because you have an emotional agenda. I think that somebody like you has the potential of becoming a full fledged observant Jew, because you are an emotional person that if taught to control and canalize your emotions through the learning of the Torah and chassidism, you will be able to succed, instead of letting your emotions dictate to your head what to try to rationalize, that for any thinking person is obvious that it doesn't make sense. Now Go to the Chabad rabbi, meet with him, you will see that he is not a monster, and learn, without any obligation to do anything, what is Chabad all about, and then you will have the free choice of deciding what you want for yourself, as of now you are missing that free choice, because you only know one side. Go meet the Chabad Rabbi , I'm sure you will write next year a totally different article with understanding and compassion for other Jews and perhaps you will be doing a little bit more Jewish deeds yourself too. Hatzlacha
5. O.K., I got it BUT the article misses the point!
Jerome ,   Paris   (05.14.09)
O.K. I was pretty often in Ramat Aviv. Ramat Aviv is big- many areas with a lot of people. Its true. BUT: You can see a lot of arab girls with the hijab in Ramat Aviv. Great? They rent flats and sing Biladi. Great? They "kick" out jews. Great? You can get to the Mc-Burger-Chain in Ramat-Aviv-Gimmel. The "waiter" is arab. O.K.? The "takeover" is done by all groups, right?! So if jews get kicked out by other jews, thats O.K. either bc thats it. All the cry babies that read Haaratz , Ir Amin, Adalah, Peace Now, Yesh Din and bla bla bla Anti-Zionist have now a problem that a non-zionist group (Chabat is not anti but non-zionist) gets into the picture as well. Well, if muslem-palis-islamist can vote in labour and meretz primaries to destabilze Israel so it should be no problem that some other idiots can move in and turn Ramat Aviv Israeli (loud and...well guess).
6. "Shabbes yells!"
Allon ,   London   (05.14.09)
oh heavens, they dared yell Shabbes
7. For an article claiming there isn't any racism..
Dana   (05.14.09)
from beginning to end it was fully and completely racist. It generalizes Orthodox people as being rabidly anti-secular and anti-Zionists who don't serve in the army. Those are only disgusting assumptions based on pure ignorance. If anything, this article supports Yael Mishali's article. There is clearly strong racism against religious Jews in Ramat Aviv. I guess they are only "liberal" and "open-minded" when people think THEIR way and no other way.
8. Entitled author sounds racist and xenophobic. What happened
Jae ,   Lynn US   (05.14.09)
to live and let live? Agree to disagree? Seems like hypocrisy has reared is big face in too many back halls of Ramat Aviv
9. "nothing against religion"
eliezer ,   jerusalem   (05.14.09)
What BS! This article is so blatant anti religious it is a miracle if some one misses the seething hatred. this is a democratic country; we have the right to live where we desire and if I want to put my self into an apartment in Ramat Aviv, then you have no right to deny it to me. The truth is that your article would be a masterpiece in study of fear and hatred that comes from it. Resign yourself to the fact that religious are growing in numbers. We WILL eventually TAKE OVER. Probably sooner than you think. Live with it!
10. Thank you for more detail.
Aaron ,   SF, USA   (05.14.09)
The article the other day was horribly vague.
11. True, #2
Aaron ,   SF, USA   (05.14.09)
In regards to not being tolerant....I'd suggest the secular community of Ramat Aviv sit down with the Chabad and talk about real issues instead of perceived issues. They'd surely be able to find a middle ground and make both of their lives easier.
12. #7 not racism, predjudice representativeness heuristic.
Aaron ,   SF, USA   (05.14.09)
I dislike when people use racism for all forms of over-generalizing. Racism should always mean judging people and overgeneralizing based on SKIN COLOR....there are many other words to describe other types of discrimination.
13. Orthodox are the PROBLEM, they dont respect anyone!!!(END)
Gabrile ,   Viña del Mar, Chile   (05.14.09)
14. in whose army we serve (and guess who doesn’t serve in it)
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (05.14.09)
Funny the facts don't agree with that statement. The vast majority in Ramat Aviv do not serve either
15. This article sounds identical to Whites in America
Yacov ,   Chicago   (05.14.09)
This articles sounds identical to what Whites in America used to say about Blacks or Hispanics moving into their neighborhood 40 years ago. The author even alluded to some "good" Orthodox that were welcomed when they first moved into the neighborhood. The Chababniks won't shop at your stores? Are your stores the ones selling pig's heads, bacon and pork hotdogs? At least Saudi Arabia has the backbone to stand up to those who would defile Islam and doesn't allow pork in Saudi Arabia. Chabadniks shop in stores that keep kosher. Quit selling treyf, stop acting like goyim and the Chabadniks will do business with you.
JMK ,   NYC   (05.14.09)
To live in Israel is to know how it happens that Nazis and Facism hated Jews, To live in Israel is to know how 6 million Jews defenselss abandoned were eliminated, per Yamit, Har Homa, Aza there will be more too.
17. If this was Jerusalem
Gershon ,   Toronto   (05.14.09)
The Chabad would be stoning secular women for their attire or beating them for sitting at the front of the bus. The Dosim are completely intolerant of anyone else's religious views. Let them live in their 18C ghettos and not make the rest of Israel into a Shetle. I used to live in Ramat Aviv and it was a great place, keep it that way.
18. #12 partially true
bubba ,   nyc   (05.14.09)
Not completely true. Racism is about race not skin color. There are dark skinned caucasoids such as berbers and ethiopians, and southern Indians Also not all negroids are dark. Some dark skinned people like the Khoisens and Obamas Luo's are Capoid. Nevertheless racism when talking about secular vs. religious Jews is an oxymoron
19. Chabad is not Chareidi
Yoni ,   Jerusalem   (05.14.09)
Chabad has nothing to do with the chareidi sector in Israel other than the fact that they wear white shirts and black pants. Chabad's value system and way of life is rejected by everyone in the Chareidi system. All the other rabbis talk out against it and do not accept such a lifestyle. This lifestyle includes creating a separate religion and promoting chassidut chabad instead of Judaism and Torah. believing in a false messiah and false prophet and going against the halacha in some cases because of it. Chabad would never be accepted into any chareidi neighborhood behaving as they do so they make their own neighborhoods and have their own bubble that they live in. Please do not confuse Chabad with Chareidi even if they look the same
DAVID ,   JUDEA   (05.14.09)
Reading this filth, again one can see the true nature of our liberal arrogant intolerant G’d hating elitists. More and more their true nature brakes through their false facade of their so-called liberalism. Their so carefully crafted civility, is only a very thin veneer, just showing the low life’s they really are. Good thing that they are in their last days and they know it, that is why they get so vicious. No matter that they control the courts and media, their sewage they call Democracy, is falling apart due to their own lies and fabrications. Due to this article I will now give a lot of money to Chabad, while I am not a Chabadnik, so they can do their work in the waste land of Tel Aviv.
21. #12 Seconded. The correct term is bigotry.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (05.15.09)
And this article is full of it, pretty much built from them - a plethora of stereotypes, preconceived perceptions rather than facts, and mostly... fear. Fear of change, of different people, who think or act differently. This Committee is the very definition of fear, paranoia, and hatred.
22. What hatred!
Besalel ,   Kew Gardens, NY   (05.15.09)
The entire land of Israel is for the entire Jewish nation. Nobody should have the right to tell anyone else where they can and cannot live. It is really that simple. If you do not like the changing character of your neighborhood, move out. Harlem used to be white and Jewish. When Harlem changed, they moved to Queens. When Queens changed, they moved to Long Island and New Jersey. This is life.
23. Imagine what would happen if seculars did this
Aharon   (05.15.09)
Imagine what would happen if seculars did all of this in a Haredi neighborhood. If we replaced they Yeshivas with secular preschools without permits, and bussed our children in from Tel-Aviv; If we yelled "Yom Hazikaron!" at passers by because they refuse to honour our "Zionist" holidays; If we began an organised campaign to de-Haredize a traditional Haredi neighborhood by providing funds for seculars to buy out their apartments, and so on. No doubt all hell would break loose.
24. i lived in ramat aviv
moshe ,   island hights nj   (05.15.09)
I used to live on “Chaim Levanon” in the old Ramat Aviv (Formerly known as “Al-Shaykh Muwannis”) very close to a Chabad apt. where as an outsider looking at them they were very well behaved (maybe a little energetic)and always greeted me with respect !! I’m not sure what all the fuss is all about there is an American Haredi community there (studying to become doctors) and a Gur community near “Beit Hachayal” too !! Most people there are a bunch of stuck-up snobs who couldn’t care less about Chabad or any of their neighbors all this article is trying to do is cause hatred amongst outsiders against Chabad (because the people of Ramat Aviv wont even read this article)
25. Chabad are angels, this article is Bull..!
Chabad are the most tolerant people on the face of this earth, you people need to get a life.
26. They ruin Jewish neighborhoods just like
jason white ,   afula,israel   (05.15.09)
Cedarhurst,L.I. They boycott stores owned by Jews and go to their own. They mostly do not serve in the army,they do not stand for Holocaust Memorial Day or For Fallen Heroes Day. They also have a way of taking over the shuls of others.Keep them out and away from your children and keep the pictures of their "rebbe"from appearing all over the place.
27. Idiot... Chabad is pro Zionist, what's this 'flag is not our
shneer   (05.15.09)
What's this flag is not our flag crap? Chabad is pro zionist, pro state, put down yer weed, man. Their excesses are legend, I feel for you in that regard. They should observe quiet & respect for the community. But these lies about 'they have a different flag, aren't Zionist'... what the heck R U talking about?!
28. good riposte
Phepps ,   Netanya   (05.15.09)
I was among those who tended to ascribe this dispute to left-wing intolerance and hatred of haredim. However, this is a well-argued and persuasive statement.
29. Shneer, you won't find a chabadnik
Doron ,   Tel Haram   (05.15.09)
celebrating yom haatzma'ut, they do not pay there respects on yom hazikaron and do only wave there chabad flags... They are very ver very anti Zionistic, but pro land of Israel. Chabad is nice for an outsider very nice but if you've seen the insides you would run form their lies . They talk friendly to seculars/zionists but in their heart they hate them! They put tefilin on the seculars arm and forehead but they despise them and often use tefilin that are pasul. They think that we do not know their superficial and outer appearance is only to fool the ignoramus, the public will love them but the truth will catch them. Their false Mashiach will eventually make them loose their Judaism and turn them into modern day Christians. And you should stop embarrassing yourself!
30. But the harideem are anti secular
Ramat Aviv Resident ,   Ramat Aviv   (05.15.09)
Come on enough of all this political correctness, the harideem are anti secular and hate us. Inciting homophobia to the levels of violence, sorry but we dont need these violent trouble makers amongst us. Even tried to brainwash my kids , luckily we put an end to that one. Sorry but the fact is secular and ultra religious do not mix and for all our sakes lets keep it that way. They should stay in Jerusalem where they belong and out of ramat aviv. In jerusalem they cause riots, attack women on buses , throw stones at other jews, sorry but not in our neighbourhood.
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