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Ministers to vote on 'Loyalty Law' next week
Amnon Meranda
Published: 25.05.09, 09:42
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17 Talkbacks for this article
1. Anyone smell fascism in the air?
Smith ,   TA, Israel   (05.25.09)
The reason this law is so disgusting is that a citizen's loyalty to their country is implicit. This is why we have laws against treason. Treason can be alleged against anyone who has broken this implicit loyalty. The only places where it is "explicit" are god-forsaken tyrannies: Russia, China, N. Korea, etc. Places where the state suspects all its citizenry of treachery, meaning a lack of deference to the status quo of the powerful. Even in the USA a child is not obligated to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Children of Jehovah's Witnesses, Pacifists, whatever belief or ideology do not have to recite it. Also it is interesting that the oath places Jewish and Zionist before democratic. Is that an order of preference? Republic! Republic! Republic!
2. Only service in the I.D.F., not alternative
jason white ,   afula,israel   (05.25.09)
service. Loyalty is serving and defending our country as a soldier. All right to vote or serve in the knesset or work in the government should be for veterans of the I.D.F The sam egoes for higher education.
3. to #1 its not ok when someone send
ghostq   (05.25.09)
his child to war wile other say I don't feel like it, the burden of protecting the civilians should be eqaully, if not militery servise at least volunteer help your comunity, it's not fascism when the Israel is in a constant threat by so many other neighbours, all thos countries you mention weren't in a immediate threat.
4. Well talkbackers from many countries will obviously agree
redbourn ,   tel aviv   (05.25.09)
with the new law, since they have one which closely resembles it. The US, United Kingdom, Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, India, Jamaica, Norway, Philippines, Singapore, China, Thailand, Fiji, and South Africa. And The U.K.'s oath of allegiance is recited before taking one's seat in parliament, which is definitely something that is needed in the Knesset. Mike
5. #1 - the name Smith suggest that you come from a country
martin knopfman ,   Tel Aviv   (05.25.09)
that has a law that closely resembles Israel's proposed one, and which you would therefore deem a 'G*d forsaken one'. Maybe that's why you left it? Notice my spelling of the word G*d. The US, United Kingdom, Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, India, Jamaica, Norway, Philippines, Singapore, China, Thailand, Fiji, and South Africa all have similar laws. And The U.K.'s oath of allegiance is recited before taking one's seat in parliament, which is definitely something that is needed in the Knesset. The name Smith, makes it highly unlikely that you are posting from Tel Aviv, but not impossible of course. But the name plus the vitriolic content suggests that you are an impostor. Martin Mike
6. #1 Smith - no, no fascism
Jewish ,   Israel   (05.25.09)
1. Jewish, Zionist, Democratic. Yes, this is the order. The goal and the justification of the State of Israel is the national home for Jewish people. Democracy is not a goal, but the means for better way of living. 2. Israel is different from most of other nations in having significant group of people with at least questionable loyalty. This is the reason to define by law subjects that in most states are out of discussion. Lawmakers should decide about details, but in any case having things defined in law is much better than having each group interpreting their rights and obligations at their will making peaceful co-existence impossible.
7. What about people who can't?
Sara ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (05.25.09)
What about people who can't be in the army for religious or other reasons? I'm an orthodox woman who for religious reasons didn't serve in the army. I did alternative service (Sherut Le'umi). Should I not be allowed to vote or go to college/university?
8. to #7 religion is not a justify reason
ghostq   (05.25.09)
many other religious people around the world serve the army or do civil service, we r talking about people who don't contribute to society at all.
9. #7
SMelmoth   (05.25.09)
There is no such thing as can't, just won't. I don't know about the laws for treason on the Israeli books, but not a single case that comes to mind. Loyalty is not implicit, and when it comes to people who celebrate Nakba Day, it is greatly in doubt.
10. It is about time!!
Larry T ,   K.Sava   (05.25.09)
Anyone who does not serve should not be able to get full benefits including full pension. Just a thought but anyone who serves should get an income tax point. BTW it is not only army, it can be police, hospital duty etc
11. #1 imposter?
ben Ish   (05.25.09)
I find it hard to believe that you are actually an Israeli resident, so I'm just calling you out on being an imposter. Celebrating the creation of the state IS NOT A DEMONSTRATION OF LOYALTY TO THAT STATE. I say you are in the UK.
12. #7 Religion is not a reason not to serve
Larry T ,   K.Sava   (05.25.09)
Sherut Leumi most of us accept as a reasonable alternative, but stop hiding behind religion as an excuse.
13. #11- well said! See post #5!
Jane ,   London   (05.25.09)
14. A reasonable & justified law which should be passed
zionst forever   (05.25.09)
How can you justify giving citizenship to an individual arab or jew who refuses to swear loyalty to the state. Unless you see it as some kind of right to be disloyal then why should you be given citizenship. Something like citizenship which comes with so many rights including the right to vote and have influence in who will be running the country is something you cannot simply hand out no strings attached. Its also a matter of national security allowing citizens to openly say they see it as a right to be disloyal. The nakba bill is contreversial but this is essential.
15. 7
zionist forever   (05.25.09)
Sara Serve the state as required, in military service, or ALTERNATIVE SERVICE AS STATED BY THE LAW That doesn't mean that military service is the only option. If the state demands you do some kind of alternate civilian service thats justified or if the state says you don't have to do any kind of service then again your not doing anything wrong. Sherut Le'umi, anybody who has a LEGAL get out clause from the army or any other kind of service isn't breaking any laws and wouldn't be affected.
16. Some people need take medical or disable could not join army
Jason ,   USA   (05.26.09)
No army in world would take people need take medical or are mental or phyical disable. So should not be allow to vote as will. Or should do somethings else. What people move to Israel they to old should do something else as will.
17. I AM actually in Israel...
David ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (05.27.09)
So I will repeat Smith's statement so you all can hear it clearly: The reason this law is so disgusting is that a citizen's loyalty to their country is implicit. This is why we have laws against treason. Treason can be alleged against anyone who has broken this implicit loyalty. The only places where it is "explicit" are god-forsaken tyrannies: Russia, China, N. Korea, etc. Places where the state suspects all its citizenry of treachery, meaning a lack of deference to the status quo of the powerful. Even in the USA a child is not obligated to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Children of Jehovah's Witnesses, Pacifists, whatever belief or ideology do not have to recite it. Also it is interesting that the oath places Jewish and Zionist before democratic. Is that an order of preference? Republic! Republic! Republic!
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