Ya'alon: No discernible solution to Palestinian conflict
Attila Somfalvi
Published: 26.05.09, 18:09
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21 Talkbacks for this article
1. B. B. might want a government more than US help
Yoni   (05.26.09)
If B. B. does not listen to the correct right wing in his government he will not have a government, just a vote of no confidence. The political topography would change drastically if we had a real democracy where each candidate had to run of their own merits. We need to junk this fake British based oligarchy and institute a real democratic democracy like the US based system. All the little parties would disappear along with the party practice of inventing reasons to change the order of candidates after the people vote.
2. yaalon
alexi   (05.26.09)
Yaalon is 100% correct. there is no obvious solution as the arabs are engaged in ponzi schemes to destroy israel. Genetically they are not capable of peaceful relations. look at syria where terror is transparent.Two state, half state are all mularkey. Obama's connection to rashidi and his moslem schooling put him in bed with palestinians wailing and opposite to israel. This will ruin his presidency since he himself is not a jimmy carter ehud olmert coward. He's in bed with the wrong partner. Al quaeda brought death to USA and obama can expect more of it if he persists with his rashidi plans. And Livni ought to wake up from her olmert delusions. And high court, Olmert played you for imbeciles as he is working away at his business enterprises in new York. He is sick, what rubbish. Ehud is a born liar!
3. Standing your ground
Michael ,   Tennessee   (05.26.09)
Israel must do what it must do, glad Bibi didn't fold to pressure from the US. A LOT of Americans support Israel's right to chart their own destiny.
4. fools like Ya'alon and Yishai....
Michael ,   Haifa   (05.26.09)
...don't fully comprehend that the pressure to give up settlements (all of them illegal by international law) is not just an American matter. Except perhaps for Micronesia, nobody recognizes the legality of the settlements. And to the brilliant talkbackers, who claim that Haifa is also a settlement, you are talking rubbish. Haifa is recognized by mosr of the world as a city in the sovereign state of Israel. At the bottom line America will just simply not veto the potential European inspired trade embargo on us, when we, in our refusal to face realities, prefer silly tricks, such as the "natural growth" of settlements over a two state solution/
5. Hopeful signs from some ministers?
Steve   (05.26.09)
The Americans must be told, there will be no Palestinian state; there will be no "two state solution." That's all. Barack Hussein Obama must be told the difficult truth. Difficult for him that is. The land belongs to the Jews - in perpetuity - even more so than the north American continent belongs to the sons and the daughters of predominantly white European immigrants and settlers. Even to the sons and daughters of Africans and African Americans like Mr. Obama. American Indians, for many years, did not like this but that is the way it is, at least for now and the foreseeable future. Most American Indians have reconciled themselves to this reality as will the Arabs in time. Israel belongs to the Jews. The Jews have not only an historic right to this land but a divine right. Mr. Obama will have to pursue another path; an acceptable path for the entire Jewish people to whom the land belongs "as of right and not on sufferance."
6.  Mohammed never came to Jerusalem
Pedro ,   Estoril-Portugal   (05.26.09)
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam. 2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel . 3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years. 4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years. 5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit. 6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran. 7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem . 8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem. 9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. 10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms. 11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same. 12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey . 13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won. 14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them. 15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths. 16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel. 17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel. 18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians. 19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. 20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
7. #4 Michael, name that international law!
Yoni   (05.26.09)
In fact international law allows nations who take land from other nation to annex it and build towns and cities. Large parts of Germany were taken at the end of WW2 and the Germans were forcibly dispossessed from their ancestral land. This theory that Israel can't take land is a myth not a fact and there is no law that stops Israel from using the land taken from Jordan. It is Judea and Samaria given to the Jews by the league of nations, that legal document has never been rescinded. So please come up with a more intellectual argument why you want to give Jewish land to bloodthirsty arabs.
8. @Michael from haifa ...
Trumpeldor ,   eurabyia   (05.26.09)
What international laws are you talking about ???? -1920 San Remo international conference gave all sovereignty over mandate to the Jewish people These clauses are still valid and binding ! Brits gave eastern bank of yarden river to hasheimi and this move was illegal . resol 242 talks about occupied territories and the writers of that resolution crearly always stated that that withdrawal should be on secure borders. -1967 victory allows the winner to keep all territory Suffice to look at all other countries histories including USA and Russia !
9. kudos to #4 reality does indeed beckon
avramele   (05.26.09)
Michael from Haifa got it right -- the world community for now recognizes the legitimacy of a Jewish state (UN resolution 181) but equally rejects the occupation and the settlements. in my opinion andthat of all parties and MK's to the left of Likud, this will not last forever! Yaalon's containment strategy does not work to Israel's benefit as once a palestinian majority exists between the river and the sea calls for a bi-national state will gain added weight internationally.... In fact a recent article in the New York review of Books (an increasingly unfriendly publication) suggests a go slow neo-containment policy from a left-wing perspective -- mmm wonder why. We need to push for a palestinian state along side a Jewish state before its too late!
10. One State solution then
HumHum ,   Toronto Canada   (05.26.09)
Likud is only making the one-state solution more inevitable and more popular. This is why Palestinians did not mourn the election of the right-wing government in Israel.
11. #4 & #9: The "international community" bogeyman.
Steve   (05.26.09)
Notice Barack HUSSEIN Obama floated this bogeyman in his recent press briefing with Netanyahu. Obama: "I have said before and I will repeat again that it is I believe in the interest ... of the United States and (the implied threat) the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY to achieve a two-state solution in which Israelis and Palestinians are living side by side in peace and security." We have our rights to this land - all of it. Only weak Jews fall for this implied threat. Only unthinking, weak-minded people employ this threat.
12. in answer to questions
Michael ,   Haifa   (05.26.09)
Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva from 21 April to 12 August, 1949 entry into force 21 October 1950 Article 49 states: The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
13. don't think like Milocevitch, or Jan Smith
Albert ,   Ramat gan   (05.26.09)
Look to the reality, the world isn't ruled by justice, but by the law of the strongest, nobody would sanction China for invading Tibet, but everyone sanctionned Yuguslavia, South Africa and so on, with the consequences we know, Israel is very vulnerable, it is enough that the world closes their airports for Israeli's, and stop imports and exports, and Israel can't survive, shrugging off pressure from the world, can mean the end of Israel,
14. #12: Article 49 does not apply to Israel
Steve   (05.27.09)
This Convention was crafted in light of (in the aftermath of) Nazi Germany's illegitimate occupation of sovereign states. It applied to Germany's forcible transfer of civilian populations - more often than not, Jews. That is why the term "High Contracting Parties" or Sovereigns is utilized. Who was the High Contracting Party in the West Bank and Gaza prior to the 1967 Six Day War. If you say Jordan and Egypt respectively then you are either ill-informed or you are dishonest. The point is, there were no High Contracting Parties or Sovereigns occupying these territories. Jordan and Egypt "illegally" occupied land that was to be the Jewish national homeland according to the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations. Thus according to the Convention you cite, Israel is not an occupier of land belonging to a High Contracting Party; not in the legal sense. The last sovereign in "Palestine" was the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Turks relinquished sovereignty following the first world war. England was given the temporary Mandate for Palestine which was to be the Jewish national homeland. Learn your history #12.
15. Albert #13
Steve   (05.27.09)
It's not about shrugging off pressure or being contemptuous in the face of immoral pressure. It's about being firm. It's about being honest. Israel's case is a moral one. Israel has a strong moral case. If the international community determines to sanction Israel because she stands for justice and right, then shame on the international community. We've seen many threats out there. Obama himself intimated this when he said it was in the interests of the international community to achieve Israel's demise by means of a two state solution. Everyone knows what these people have determined for the Jews. I do not wish to see Israel's leaders shrug off international pressure but explain why the Jews - not Israel's enemies - have a moral right to our land. Why must we tip-toe around the fact that these are our enemies, dedicated to our destruction? I would not give my land to a friend, much less to an enemy. The land belongs to the Jews.
16. to steve #15
ave   (05.27.09)
"explain why the Jews - not Israel's enemies - have a moral right to our land " your land ?? given by who ?? Balfour ?? and who is Balfour ?? and if this your land ,from where all the palestinians came ? oneday you will pay for this :)
17. #4, Haifa recognised by everyone except...
Danny   (05.27.09)
the people we are actually fighting and most of the Muslim and arab world.
18. #13, except we import more than we export to the EU
Danny   (05.27.09)
and i would argue a far lower dependence on the US can only be a good thing and the rest of the world doesn't care.
19. ya.... alone
lolo ,   jerusalem   (05.27.09)
you are not alone in this openion it means simply you can not solve a problem by ignoring it ...
20. to Steve
Albert ,   ramat gan   (05.27.09)
You can explain too that the Indians of the united States have a moral right to the land, does it help their cause? in these cases, in front of stronger than you, if you don't bend you break
21. Right on soldier!
Ginette ,   Toronto, Canada   (05.28.09)
Bogi has always been my hero and he will stay my hero as long as he is willing to to give up the embraces and keep the assets.
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