MKs support arrest over denial of Israel's existence
Amnon Meranda
Published: 27.05.09, 13:00
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1. this is stupid, common
ghostq   (05.27.09)
you can't arrest 7 million people, freedom of speach must exist , but Bashara wasn't just talking he protested and visited the enemy, so words, r ok, actions r not.
2. before the bill goes a law ...
avi   (05.27.09)
Israel as a jewish state has nothing to do with democracy, and in fact that bill is contrary to what it means since democracy is anything but jewish. this nonsense destroy the best minds and hearts in our midst.
3. and a step closer to iran
jerusalem   (05.27.09)
hmm, ironic: "Israel's right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state" how police state like...i mean democratic like.
4. May this government fall as soon as possible
Aharon   (05.27.09)
Preferably before they case irreparable harm to Israeli democracy. This whole wave of legislation banning a range of speech and protest is despicable. That it may actually pass shows that we never really internalised democratic values - and that the Iran comparison, unfortunately, might carry more weight than we care to admit.
6. Can it be applied against west bank Jews who violate
the generally safety of the State with their anti-democratic antics?
7. to #2 I belive it is
ghostq   (05.27.09)
a greek word, later improved by the franch. so many french contributed to the USA independence. it's not ideal but it's the most advenced and modern free thinking gov there is, judaism as religion refers to race, not political issue.
8. A beautiful country goes to waste!
Noa ,   London, UK   (05.27.09)
Such a shame to read these stories. I can only imagine that if this type of mentality become more widespread Israel will lose in the end.
9. Now it's official: this government & country have gone nuts
LoyalIsraeliCitizen ,   J'lem, IL   (05.27.09)
I simply CANNOT believe what I'm reading. Passing a law preventing somebody from expressing his personal opinion about what this state should be or not be, is all the prove I need to say that Israel is in fact not a democratic country, not even close. You're gonna arrest me now? Who/what is going to determine whether my cry against this so called "Israeli democracy of ours" (I'm not yet screaming "Fascism!", but I'm getting close) in fact will lead to acts of hatred or scorn against the State? Have we all gone insane?
10. This from Meretz who already lost it ....
rebecca ,   modiin   (05.27.09)
The reasoning of this law is clear and certainly required, but from the sound of this report, maybe a bit of discussion and fine tuning is required. however, Meretz starting that discussion is just a waste of time, because they, like their arab anti-Israel friend, do not understand the basis of patriotism, what makes a traitor, and general state security.
11. finally a correct law, the right thing to do.
ralph   (05.27.09)
12. For quite sometime now
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (05.27.09)
B"H For quite sometime now I'm saying that Israel should be a Jewish State and not a "democratic" one. That knesset is not a Torah institution. That Jews shouldn't vote and strive for Jewish institutions like the Beit Hamigdash on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, the King, the Sanhedrin and courts of law in every village. If these statements are criminalized it means that Orlev and his knesset pals criminalize Torah. It means that they are signing their death warrants as Torah will prevail!
13. very good idea!
Turkish Jew ,   Istanbul   (05.27.09)
Bigotry and hate speech are the limit of freedom of expression. Very well! One can not use the right to free speech to demonize the giver of these rights aka the state. "A democratic entity defends its existence through law!" From a decision of European Court of Human Rights on a case regarding the Islamist party's words about the destruction of secular republic of Turkey. Israel needs to learn...
14. to #12 you think like Khamenai from Iran
ghostq   (05.27.09)
Sharya law eat your heart out some Israelies jews want middle ages gov.
15. to #13 Edrogan showd the world
ghostq   (05.27.09)
that even secular Turkey is getting close to Islamic religion and to Iran.
16. Tibi the arab
Marcelo ,   Aurabia   (05.27.09)
"We will not recognize a Jewish and Zionist Israel..." Tibi: you can start packing your belongings and go to gaza or any other anti-jew place in the earth. You are the reason for this law and the loyalty are discusting. ISRAEL is the state for jews. Period.
17. meretz and olmert
oron and olmert are both idle dreamers and delusionists. Olmert is a liar and military coward and the other an arafat- loving dumbbell.
18. I Agree With Meretz
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (05.27.09)
Laws like what Mr. Orlev is promoting belong in the dark world of totalitarian and Communist states where any opposition to the state is dealt with with prision, "attitude adjustments", "retraining", mental institutions and ostracization. Mr. Orlev and the Government have lost their self-confidence, and their perspective of what a true democracy really is. and it is not forcing people to believe or think what they want. A very dangerous law.
19. Re: 14 u r out of ur mind
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (05.27.09)
B"H You are out of your mind "ghostq". Why? Because you mix up the substance. Judaism is NOT Islam. Just because there are islamist extremists out there, doesn't mean Jews should not be Jewish. THINK before you write stupidities.
20. Right wing
invicta   (05.27.09)
When the government starts to imprison people for an opinion then the Government and its people are failed. I openly claim that israel is brutally occupying a defenceless people and denying them even the most basic human dignity. The Nakba can be evidenced and proved by numerous witness statements / photographs / testimonies . What Israel has done is to wipe the Palestinian people from the face of the map (you will recall that Palestine was literally on the map before Zionist colonisers killed and expelled the Palestinains) - a project Israel continues to this day. Of course in Facist Israel I would be imprisoned for telling this truth.
21. No 20 Right Wing
MC ,   UK   (05.27.09)
Israel is NOT brutally occupying a defenseless people and deny them the most basic human dignity. Have you forgotten the Palestinians have leaders. What are Hamas and the PA doing for their people? Israel left Gaza fully equipped with hot houses etc giving the Palestinians a livlihood, what did they do there? sent rokets to Sderot. The bottom line is that Israel has NOT wiped the Palestinian people from the map, your so called truth is false. Yes, Palestine was on the map. There were Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews. When Israel was declared a state through the Balfour declaration, the Arabs would not accept the partition of the plan then and started the '48 war. Nothing in the Arab world has changed in 60 years. To day they reverse historical facts and sell them to any one ready to buy them. One should check history before having hysterical outbursts! The state of Israel will remain Jewish no matter what and anyone who doesn't like that is free to leave.
22. #20
Yes, and then we could call you con-victa.
23. This law will never stand up in the HCJ!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (05.27.09)
While the Arabs have certainly pushed the Zionist population of this country into a state of legislating right wing laws which are reminiscent of some laws passed in Europe against Jews in the past, the Knesset is wasting its time and the taxpayers money, what little we have left. Laws like these will never stand up in the High Court of Justice because freedom of speech is guaranteed in the basic law and I don't think that Bibi Netanyahu would dare to change what is basically our constitution. This proposed law itself proclaims that Israel is a democracy and if you condemn a person from speaking his mind well, the there is no democracy. While many Israeli Arabs voice hatred against our country we just have to turn the other cheek. Maybe the solution is the proposal of the"No Loyalty no Citizenship" law. The lawyers and experts on Constitutional Law will have to decide whether those who are not loyal to the country that feeds, educates them and gives them social and health services, should be allowed to receive such benefits. In the end, stupid laws like these will only harm Israel's standing in the eyes of the world. Some might say: "The hell with the world" but we cannot live in isolation even if we agree in principle withe this statement.
24. #21
Jane   (05.27.09)
About 800,000 Palestinians were forced into exile in 1948-9 and during the June 1967 war a further 325,000 Palestinians became refugees. Under UN Resolution 194, the Palestinians have the right to return to their homes, but Israel has always refused to implement the Resolution. Today over 6 million Palestinians live as refugees, hundreds of thousands of whom still live in overcrowded refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza, and in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. The past 40 years have seen the establishment of over 200 illegal Israeli settlements, housing nearly 500,000 settlers, within the Occupied Territories. The ‘separation barrier’ in the West Bank, construction of which was started in 2002, cuts deep into Palestinian land and, along with the “settler only” roads, cuts off many communities from water supplies, hospitals and their agricultural land. The residents face severe travel restrictions and for many it is impossible to enter Jerusalem or to travel abroad. This treatment of the Palestinians, both within Israel and in the Occupied Territories, is widely recognised as a system akin to the Apartheid regime of South Africa. Palestinians are continually under attack from the Israeli occupying forces and are increasingly harassed by settlers, who attack farmers and steal their land. Collective punishments, such as prolonged curfews and house demolitons are frequently imposed. The Palestinians who remained in what is today the state of Israel, as non-Jewish members of a Jewish country, also face discrimation in all areas of Palestine and are considered to be second class citizens.
25. #21
jane   (05.27.09)
Israel is the target of at least 65 UN Resolutions and the Palestinians are the target of none. Aside from the core issues—refugees, Jerusalem, borders—the major themes reflected in the U.N. resolutions against Israel over the years are its unlawful attacks on its neighbors; its violations of the human rights of the Palestinians, including deportations, demolitions of homes and other collective punishments; its confiscation of Palestinian land; its establishment of illegal settlements; and its refusal to abide by the U.N. Charter and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.
26. #21
Invicta   (05.27.09)
Military activities affecting civilians This week, 21 Palestinians, including six children, were injured by Israeli forces in the West Bank, the same as the weekly average in the first quarter of 2009, and less than the 2008 weekly average (24). Most of the Palestinian injuries (eleven adults, six children) occurred during anti–Barrier demonstrations held in the villages of Ma'sara (Bethlehem) and Ni'lin and Bil'in (Ramallah). In Qalqiliya and East Jerusalem, two Palestinians were injured at checkpoints by Israeli forces, including an incident at Az Zaʹayyem checkpoint (Jerusalem), where Israeli forces physically assaulted a Palestinian Red Crescent ambulance driver transporting a Palestinian patient to a hospital in Jerusalem. During the week, the number of Israeli military search operations was below the weekly average in the first quarter of 2009 (91 compared to 109). By far, the highest number of search operations occurred in the northern West Bank governorates (72), with the most occurring in Qalqiliya (22). However, the number of Palestinians arrested by Israeli forces during the week fell dramatically compared to the weekly average of arrests in the first quarter of 2009 (39 arrests compared to 80). Ongoing Israeli settler violence This week one Palestinian was injured in Israel settler violence, down from a weekly average of 12 injuries over the previous six weeks. The injury occurred near Havat Gilad settlement outpost during a confrontation between Israeli settlers and farmers, who had prior coordination with the Israeli District Coordination Liaison Office (DCL) to enter the area.
27. A good sign - even from GhostQ
John ,   Jerusalem   (05.27.09)
I've rarely seen such unanimity in a talkback (with the exception of anything about weird Haredi attempts at social engineering). Virtually everything I've ever read by GhostQ has come from someone with whom I thought I shared no common values. This proves me wrong. Perhaps there is hope out there. I support Palestinian nationalism but would happily admit that if a free Israel and a free Palestine lived side by side, I'd rather live in the former. More alcohol, more social freedom, more dogs. Israel has so much of which it can be proud. The occupation of the West Bank ain't one of those things. Israelis have a right to safety and security - to be able to walk down the street without fear of some bearded nutter blowing themselves up or launching a rocket. But Israelis also need to learn to love what is great about their country and to discard what is not. Dana International, Manta Ray in Tel Aviv, German Colony and the Western Wall in Jerusalem, Mitzpe Ramon crater, Vered Hagalil in the Galilee. All wonderful. A collection of caravans on a hill outside Nablus - give me a break. [And yes, the Palestinians need to get real too about their ridiculous insistence on a right to return and full sovereignty over the old city. - and to move on from a victimhood culture which rewards mediocrity]
28. #27
jane   (05.27.09)
'victimhood culture ' But isn't that israel? Always bringing up the holocaust and how the Palestinians want to kills us (when the opposite is actually happening) And calling anyone who criticises Israel a racist (look at the comments aimed at Ken Loach) When Israel forgoes its holocaust culture and faces up to its part in the Nakba then the ME can move on.
29. To #18 - Misreading the facts
Frank ,   Canada   (05.27.09)
There is a very big difference between disagreeing with the state on some political issues and wanting to destroy it. Arabs willing to work at destroying the state of Israel must start packing.
30. you became a strong dictatorship
Ivan   (05.27.09)
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