According to all the predictions, Beirut is going to turn into a Mini Iran this weekend.

"Why is it that in Monsey, US, a Jewish woman who wants to ride the bus separately uses a PRIVATE bus company, but the Haredi woman in Israel wants the government to fund buses to promote ridiculous and baseless chumrahs?" "Why is it that male and female Chassidim in NY have no problem using the subways or buses together with all types of people, yet they suddenly forget that they do that once they get to Israel?" "Why can't the haredi person respect people who don't agree with them?" Try answering that, Grossman.

If it was so good in Yemen, why did you leave? Admit it, you enjoy Israel more. No pogroms.

but there is Clarck Kent style, and some women no matter what they r wearing act like hos. it's not what a woman wears it's how she behave.

The towns where charidim are living are the poorest , you know it . Taxes ? Secondly , with their vast amount of children , how much taxes are left to pay . Third , why is a Bene Berak - Elad fare , more than 21 km , only a 7 sh. while a Tel Aviv - Petach Tikva , 11.7 km , is 9,1 sh . They are more subsidised .

between religious places . Bus 277 , El'ad - Jerusalem . 52,8 km . Fare 12 sh. 402 : Jerusalem - Benei Berak 65 km 18,5 sh . 426 Jerusalem - Petach Tikva 19 sh "normal" line 947 . Sirkin Junction [ Petach Tikva ] - Harel Junction [ Mevasseret ] 43,5 km : 23 Sh . You see those "religious" lines are MORE subsidised . Distances and fares from Egged website . You can check them .

people because they're poor - so I fail to see the consideration of poverty in the equation. They're equal citizens of Israel and pay the legally set tax amount, just like everyone else. Secondly, there is no extra subsidy - what you seem to forget is that the state sets a *maximum* rate, nothing more. Anything below that is up to the bus company, much in the same way the fares Superbus has are almost always lower than those of Egged in equivalent lines. In this case, Egged is probably cutting costs to attract frequent customers (public transportation usage is more common among ultra-Orthodox) who can't afford higher rates - a purely business-related decision.

I welcome sitting with men only. If I want to rub up against someone or take a grab at their package, i deffinatly dont want it to be a women!

And recalling that around 4 months ago only, hareidim set up a new bus line, on private funds, and EGGED together with beit mishpat BANNED IT. Coz it did not contribute to their pockets??? I'm TOTALLY against segregation of this kind and for a variety of reasons, but at least I admit that some times hareidim do the things the right way, and yet will be critizised no matter what

I don't discrimnate against poorer people , but this was a reaction to your : Charidim pay also taxes . This is obviously not always so . Egged as a society has to earn money , They take less on one line , they take more on another . So we are paying for the charidim's cheap lines . If they had not those cheap fares on those lines , Egged probably could cut the fares on all the lines .

Or you did you forget that not everyone, secular or religious, goes beyond minimum wage? But that's not the point, because the law applies to secular and religious *equally*. So yes, the religious, ultra-Orthodox included, pay their taxes - *just* like the secular do, in accordance with the taxation laws. We *all* pay Value Added Tax when we buy products, we pay income tax depending on how much we go beyond minimum wage, we all pay municipal taxes, health taxes, and so on and so forth... And no, you're *not* paying for the Haredim's cheap lines! They're paying for them day after day after day, because they use them a lot more on average than the rest of the public and it was Egged's (and other companies') *business decision* to charge less in places where people use the bus *more* and can afford *less*, because that attracts more customers! Again, don't you know how the Ministry of Transportation sets prices? It doesn't go all the way down to the price on every single line, it just sets maximum values the companies can't go beyond... You're grasping at straws here in some attempt to paint ultra-Orthodox as leeches, in yet another stereotypical rant. Will you please wake up from whatever dreamworld you live in?

Has the rebbetzin actually seen any non-Jews in Monsey? Almost none live there compared to the Orthodox population. And it's not like the Orthodox population in Monsey has not misused public funds as long as it suited their needs. Non-Orthodox Jews and non-Jews have been forming their own villages in the county where Monsey sits, so as to prevent the Orthodox from lowering the standard of life in the area. 30% of the Monsey population lives below poverty level.

The point of this article is to show that Haredi women are not being coerced - it is their choice. Get over it. What's the argument about? Respect their wishes and move on.

But the seculars have'nt extra cheap fares for their lines . The cheap line Benei berak - Jerusalem goes from one poor [ and not such tax payers ] to another poor one . I don't discriminate , but how can poor people be big consumers and pay vast amounts of VAT . When i see bus 279 [ Benei Berak - El-ad ] they are not so full . Not more than the bus i'm taking . And they pay less than i have to pay for half the distance to Tel Aviv . So the bus companies are charity companies ? Youi can't pay ? we will charge you less ! Do the big supermaket chains have the same policy ? Yes , i could pay less if the bus companies would not have those cheap lines , they could reduce all the fares . You have one very good and big point . You , contrary to many others , admit it when you make mistakes שבת שלום

And yes, shops and chains focused no the ultra-Orthodox as their core customer base are way cheaper than the ones for the "normal" secular public! Didn't you know that? Go and shop in a Haredi neighborhood and compare the bill to what you normally pay, and you'll be amazed at the difference, and that includes even the higher fare ultra-Orthodox pay for some products due to stricter Kashrut observance. The ultra-Orthodox buy cheap because that's their financial status, and the stores readjust their sales strategies accordingly - less flashy stuff, more wholesale products... cereals in 5KG bags without the box, for example... and they *always* pay less than you will in the standard chains or stores, bottom line. The bus lines work the same way - it's basic economic consideration here, if you have people who aren't willing to spend a high price on a bus fare (and would thus travel less, and spend less) you lower the price in accordance to what you anticipate to be "perfect" cost that will allow maximum profit in the target area and populace - which is to say, what will make more people comfortable with traveling on the bus with the cost they pay, considering their financial status. Lower prices, Charles, can mean bigger profits. Again, that's Economics 101, nothing new or spectacular. The ultra-Orthodox are just far more realistic about how far their funds go, and aren't willing to spend beyond what they have, so companies lower prices to attract customers they wouldn't have otherwise had, or at least not as often. If the secular public held a similar spending culture, your reality would be far different. As it stands, most people are quite willing to pay extra for shiny boxes and fake discounts, and as long as you're willing to pay the more expensive fare on the bus, the bus company will keep charging it... It's called being smart consumers, Charles. And the ultra-Orthodox are the smartest consumers in Israel. They buy wholesale when they can, don't go for shiny stuff that's beyond their economic reach, organize consumer groups to buy products for less, because you always get better prices as a large group rather than an individual... You're bitter about your high bus fares? Well why don't you do something about it as a smart consumer, rather than looking for someone to blame.

Please tell me , smart consumer , what i can do regarding the "high" fares . People who have'nt a car will always need to go somewhere by a bus . If they are so smart , why should they take a bus if not necessary ? Because it's cheap ? Have they money to throw away ? Do you buy products because they are cheap if you don't need them ? A smart person will not do it I , if i had the time , would compare prices for the SAME products . Identical 100 % . PS , returning from TA just now , i paid 9.5 ILS for a Sherout instead of 4.5 as a Vatik in a Dan 66 bus , no problem for me

nobody is holding a knife to the women's throats- you are correct- but how do you know they are being coerced? The want separate lines because it says so in some scripture, the religious leaders demand the women sit separate from the men, the women are afraid of being molested by the men on the buses- etc. I found all those arguments in recent TBs by the way- . Don't you find it strange and sad, that in the 21st cent. women, or religious people , are asking again to be segregated, separated from other people? It only took several hundreds of years to get rid of discrimination and segregation and here we have a people who demand it? Humans are stupid- not learning from mistakes.

For years British Rail had a women only carriage to protect single women from harassment. If women request separate sections that's really up to them. When men force women to sit in back against their will, that's for the courts to decide.