Opinion
The elephant in the room
Michael Fenenbock
Published: 15.06.09, 23:02
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27 Talkbacks for this article
1. resistance or terrorism?
Smith ,   TA, Israel   (06.15.09)
2. November 29, 1947 The Palestinians refused their State
Anthony Morris ,   New York USA   (06.15.09)
Un Resolution 181 of 1947 = Why do we keep talking about a State they refused 62 years ago ???? This matter is finished.
3. Michael Fenenbock's "An Elephant in the Room"
marlene ,   Philadelphia, USA   (06.15.09)
FANTASTIC ARTICLE - ONE OF THE BEST EVER.
4. the bill o'reilly of Jews
ben martin   (06.16.09)
I'm not advocating violence he says ...but.... how hypocritical and morally vacuous!!!
5. What's a Palestinian Arab?
William ,   Israel   (06.16.09)
An Arab who is a Palestinian, a Palestinian who is an Arab? They are the same thing, and another part of a broadening disinformation feeding the Arab/Leftist narrative using buzzwords to invoke emotional ties to other subjects while burying truth under rubble far away from access.
6. huh??
Zion22 ,   D.C.   (06.16.09)
Im confused by his point, and baffled that someone actually agreed to print this. So this will be armed resistance by religious settlers i'm assuming. you were saying directed at Arabs but coming from where? will they be forced back to Israel or will this violence be because you've already solved how we are going to deal with the settler issue and they will remain in a new Palestinian state. Why is so much of the world convinced that they know how this thing is going to play out? I hate to break to all of the prophets of Israel but we learn from history so that we don't repeat it but we don't learn history because we assume that everything always happens the same way. Can we try to not put the cart before the horse and worry about the easier stuff to solve before we deal with Jerusalem and issues that would only matter once we really made peace...
7. armed defense, not resistance
Alan ,   texas   (06.16.09)
First of all, there is not going to be a Palestinian state because the arabs will never recognize Israel as Jewish land, nor will they live in peace. The arabs will not put down their arms to get a state. That has been shown many times. So the settlers will still have to defend themselves against arab terrorism and that's all. The real solution is to beat the surrounding and internal arabs into the dirt and then start teaching them how to live a civilized existence.
8. No, no and again no
Sarah ,   New York City, USA   (06.16.09)
The so-called two-state solution is no solution at all. The United States isn't going to invade Israel to bring it about. The real Palestinian state is Jordan. Send the Arabs in the territories packing. Is it a nice thing to do? No. But Israel needs geographical integrity. The West Bank must be formally annexed; the Arabs have to leave.
9. The real elephant
Charles Duran ,   Los Angeles, USA   (06.16.09)
The elephant in the room is the Palestinian and the Arab world. It is foolish to think Israel can get by with ignoring the legitimate grievances of the Palestinian by claiming all there problems are of their own making. The world outside of Israel views the Palestinian plight as a gross injustice by Israel's desire occupy all of Palestine. An attack against the Palestinians by Israeli settlers that is condoned or permitted by the Israeli government would would result in a complete boycott of Israel by the rest of the world. It would be the kind of boycott that Israel could not sustain and remain a military Middle East powerhouse. It would very quickly become a 3rd rate economic and military nation.
10. typical...
(06.16.09)
American Jew feels the need to chime in and feels like he is so rightous to do so because he is fighting against Iranian nukes. Let me tell you something, a problem just as equal as Iran is a pal state which will not recognize the legitimacy of Jews to live in the middle east. This is the Elephant, well spelled out by Bibi in his speech. This article dehumanizes "settlers" and equates them with Hamas. You say "If we speak of a Palestinian state we must speak of all its implications." How completely obtuse this article is for not even mentioning the real elephant, Hamas, Fatach and every other terror group. We see it today in Gaza, you want the truth? Then take your head out of the Gaza sand and look up.
11. There is already a two state solution
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (06.16.09)
B"H There is already a two state solution. The Palestinian Mandate was divided to Israel for the Jews and to Jordan for the Arabs by the British. In '48 Jordan occupied Judea, Samaria and parts of Jerusalem by force and called it "West Bank". With the help of G-d Israel liberated these "territories" in '67. Now the Arabs want it back, PETENDING that it is the second, Arab part of "Palestine". Well, it is not. The second, Arab state in Palestine is Jordan. Abbas' "Palestine" is Judea and Samaria, the Jewish biblical heartland. That is why it should not be given to the Arabs, but to its rightful owners, to the good, mostly religious Jews living there.
12. Fenenbock wouldn't know an elephant if it pooped on him!
JPS ,   Efrat   (06.16.09)
Good grief! Spare us the poetic self-serving angst about elephants in the delivery room! Fenenbock ain't ever gonna make it into the delivery room and his fear of an Jewish uprising is baseless - the Palestinian state just ain't gonna happen anytime soon, and there are OTHER elephants in the room. Crikey, not just elephants, but snakes and scorpions and probably a dragon or two. Fenenbock managed to skip over the obvious: Hamas. Hello? Fenenbock? Are you awake? How the heck is a Pal state going to be born with Hamas on the scene? Ain't gonna happen. There will be much, much armed Palestinian "resistance" to the two-state solution before any Jews start taking up arms. I don't know who Fenenbock consults for, but I wouldn't pay for this kind of advice.
13. nonsense and blackmail
Avinoam ,   Tel Aviv   (06.16.09)
Not an incitement to violence? Look, a unicorn. This article puts forth the same blackmail that gives settlers undue power against our government. Unfortunately for them, outside of Israel no one actually cares about the cost incurred of relocation. This blackmail won't work. If the settlers actually proceed with this insanity it will only lead to bloodshed and animosity, of the world towards Israel, and of Israelis towards the settlers. I suggest you find a different argument.
14. The real elephant
Oiysha   (06.16.09)
Enlightened countries promoting ethnic cleansing of Jews, sending a message to the Arab world that their states must be Jew-free. Why are Arabs even allowed to think that it is legitimate to be racist. Why does the world not demand from them what they demand from us? Obama and the beacon of human rights, Hillary Clinton, are telling the Arabs that they must not tolerate Jews in their country. Imagine if Israel were to say that it cannot be a Jewish state, if other minorities live in it?! Would we be allowed to get away with it?! Israel has many Arab towns, villages and townships. Are we saying that they must be removed because they are hampering the 2-state solution. What is going on in the Democratic minds of America? Is it progressive thought or just the same old "lets fight the Jews" to get favor with despots. To solve the Israeli-Arab conflict, we need to be creative and think out of the box.
15. Deport all arabs out of Israel the way all Jews were deporte
jordan is palestine   (06.16.09)
from arab countries!
16. will not work
Ilana   (06.16.09)
A palestinian state will not work. 1. They are not a nation, so a state based on lies cannot work for long. They were groups of people, Jordanian, Egyptian, and other. Only in 1967 did they start considering themselves a nation. No history, no culture, so the only thing keeping them as a group, which is already divided is the goal of kicking out the Jews. What happens when Obama helps them achieve this goal? Chaos - as there is no other goal . 2. When Barak was prime minister he offered them more than Obama did and Arafat rejected it-why? 3. They will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state so they will always fight against Israel. 4. The mideast cannot change in two years. Their generations need to wander the desert for 40 years in order to really change habits. Kids raised on hatred will hate. 5. Obama will go down in history as the ruination of the state of Israel after its realization. its third destruction in 2,000 years.
17. #11 Ariel - I have a question
Marcella   (06.16.09)
It's very rare to read a comment referring to the Jewish legal right to the land based on League of Nations Mandate. The British violated the Mandate and took most of this Jewish land in order to create Jordan. As you say, the Arabs took what was legitimate Jewish territory by force and Israel got it back in 1967. That means there is no "occupation" of the land, no legal basis to give it back. So my question to you is whether you have any explanation for why Israelis show reluctance to uphold those original rights. The League of Nations is hardly ever mentioned by anyone, although that agreement has never been abrogated, and therefore, still valid.
18. wrong
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (06.16.09)
Mr Fenebock is wrong. The moment the ethnic cleansing begins, it won't matter whether or not the Jews of Judea and Samaria are armed. "Resistance" is only effective when the other side differentiates between combatant and non-combatant. The Arab side, with world support, will immediately murder every Jew they can find, in the tradition of the Arab heros Samir Kuntar and the killers of Tali Hatuel. The only "elephant in the room" that Fenenbock, Obama and Blair ignore is that the Arabs will not limit their genocide to the Jews of Judea and Samaria, but as written in the Hamas constitution article 7, will hunt the Jews behind every rock and tree.
19. Its the God Will
basem ,   Saudi   (06.16.09)
Reading the article and most of its talkbacks, and watching what is going on in Tahran streets, where are these good protestors here and there are taking both of us, how the 2 great ideas, Arab transfere to Jordan,,, and death to Israel,,,, I m afraid, on both sides, things are developping towards the no return status, and its the final ware, that will keep no one,,,, and at that time we will see only real elephants, snakes,,,, etc roaming on this - HOLY - land Then, our and your relejous dummy lions will come and say: didnt we told you , ITS GOD WILL, and it will happen !!!! its written in all holy books, Jews will come back to the promesed land and be killed ther? For me this is a pool,,,,,s We have been ceated to live not to die Come on, think better
20. RE: 17 Why Israelis Are Reluctant to Uphold their Rights?
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (06.16.09)
B"H Why Israelis Are Reluctant to Uphold their Rights? Very good question Marcella, thank you! There is a short answer to this, and there is a long one. The short answer is because they are stupid. And ignorant and don't know who they are and what they are and why they are here (in Israel). So much for the Israeli educational system, after 61 years of statehood. It is not however a "quality of education" problem, it is the result of a historical, political and a cultural battle. This, however, is already part of the long answer and as it is – well - long, I'd suggest you visit my http://thetorahrevolution.blogspot.com from time to time.
21. weird, nonsense article
Phepps ,   Netanya   (06.16.09)
To begin with, I oppose a Pal. state and an Israeli withdrawal. Second, this article is written in copywriting prose, not the way political commentary is written. Saying "An elephant in the room" 10 or 20 or 30 times adds nothing--in good writing, things are only said once. Third, settlers will be violent against Pal. Arabs? When? What is he talking about? When troops cleared out the Gaza settlers, did they turn on the Arabs living nearby? Why would the settlers do this if it was the Israeli forces and not the Arabs who were clearing them out? And if they did, why would the U.S. or Israeli or other govts. care? They'd be arrested and thrown in jail, so what? This article makes a grand assertion with no substantiation, an assertion that's unclear and also inconsequential, and acts like it's a big deal, an elephant. Weird article. It's not a matter of your views, it's just not a good article.
22. #20 Ariel - Thanks
Marcella   (06.16.09)
23. Utter nonsense!!!
Simon ,   Poleg   (06.16.09)
This article is at best utter nonsense and at worst dangerous misinformation written by someone who obviously has a limited knowledge of Israel and the settler movement. I served in Miluim in Gush Qatif just before the disengagement the settlements were ghost towns nearly totally empty the vast majority of the settlers had long left and please remember that the TV footage of the disengagement riots was involving many trouble makers and demonstraters who were not from Gaza settlements and in point of fact many were not even Israeli citizens but American extremists brought in especially. Before any further disengagement the simply act of making the area a closed military zone with entry to citizens who live in the area according to their Teudat zehut would avoid any further unrest. As for armed Jewish militia remaining in Palestinian areas and attacking Palestinians after an Israeli withdrawl this is nonsense the second the IDF leaves these settlers will run! By the way I am not a leftist and I do believe in Jewish settlement but in areas that matter. If these people were true zionists they should be in places where every Jewish settler counts and makes a demographic difference such as the Galil.
24. What are you talking about?
Tsvi Appel ,   Jerusalem   (06.16.09)
Since you mentioned the disengagement, where was the Jewish resistance then? Where was the terrorism at Yamit? This nonsense. Also, no one said we were giving up Jerusalem, only the Palestinian inhabited sections of East Jerusalem. The elephant in the room is the radical right who will destroy this state by occupying Arab territory. This was a land for refuge, not for imperialism.
25. If Jerusalem is the heart of the jewish soul....
Edan ,   Tel Aviv   (06.16.09)
Then before Jerusalem was united in 1967 the jewish soul had no heart? Or before 1948 there was no jewish soul.... Stop the rhetoric people. Try thinking of new solutions to problems instead of dwelling on the problems themselves.
26. Charles #25: and how much of Palestine does Jordan occupy
Ariel ,   judean hills   (06.17.09)
Check your history--or do you prefer not to be confused by the facts.
27. Jewish violence against Palestinians is already happening.
Jacob ,   Cambridge, UK   (06.17.09)
A two-state solution may well lead to independent Jewish terrorists taking up arms, but they will kill far fewer innocent Palestinian civilians that the IDF do currently.
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