I don't CARE about them. I cannot express how little I care about them and your opinion. I'm entitled to mine, as you are yours. Who is anyone to say how much an animal should cost? Who is anyone to put a price on a chicken, cow or any other animal that is slaughtered for food. That's bad enough. Now they will burn up the streets of Jerusalem because they won't wear fake fur to stop the most dispicable and unethical murder of innocent animals. Just so they can wear them on their disgusting vile and sweaty heads. Get a life!!!

Particularly not in matters of clothes. Most of what's considered fashionable only enters the realm of the practical by mistake. And yet I don't see such a verbal assault on that. As for where human hate was displayed... "religious fanatics who make themselves the object of ridicule and, by extension, often make the rest of us look bad" Generalization, stereotypes, and outright dismissal of the public in question as if it were irrelevant and should, at best, hide itself so as to not make "normal people" feel embarrassed by their sight. "I can't tell you what a negative effect it has on Israel, a modern progressive country, when the media shows these Haredim wearing fur hats and knickers." Replace the words "Haredim", and "fur hats and knickers" with any other ethno-racial terminology (these Jews wearing their yarmulkes, those Negroes wearing their baggy pants, those Sikh and their turbans) if you fail to see the bigotry. "It's just too bad there isn't a law in Israel that made it a punishable offense to photograph them." And here, we just enter the realm of "us and them", with "us" being the "enlightened" and "normal" people and "them" being the people who should disappear, lest they infect "us" with their evil ways. Yeah, quite a bit of human hatred here.

If you can't express your opinion without stating how much you hate *all* people of a specific group, including predictions on how *all* of them will act, then that's not an opinion. That's just plain, old-fashioned hatred.

First of all, you can end up looking foolish by making ad hominem attacks on someone you don't know. For your information, I'm not British, and the only reason why I use the expression, "hot as bloody hell' is because my mother is British and I've heard that expression all my life. I happen to be American and, in this country, knickers are shortened trousers, not underwear. Also, as far as my familiarity with the English language is concerned, somebody thought it good enough to grant me a Master's degree in English literature. But, that aside, I happen to care very deeply about Israel's image, and I can assure you the sight of these cringe-inducing fanatics does absolutely nothing to enhance that image, along with the fact they contribute very little to the society as a whole.

Dear you, please have a look at www.jewishveg.org and discover how much of the Halachic framework supports vegetarianism. Or would you put Rambam, Rav. Kook or Rav. Goren in the same cast with Hitler? I bet you wouldn't. So ask yourself why these sages promoted vegetarianism or were strict veggies themselves!

Sincerely,it is time to rethink this habit.Why not? Today,we need more spiritual strenght than animal strength ,that these hats could symbolize. I think,sincerely, that the espiritual leaders of this community should think more deeply about a change in this external aspect of them,what could have an influence in the internal one and lead to an eventual necessary change for better.

If the bill is preventing cruelty to animals......which is forbidden in the Torah....so the haredim should support this bill lest thier religious clothing be "unkosher" in this way.

The point was that Ms. Tirosh worries more about animals than Humans, let her introduce some bills to protect humans also And for your information Rav Kook wore a shtreimel made of fur, there was no artificial fur in his day. Being a vegetarian is fine as long as one also cares for humans, Rav Kook was teh source of Ahavas Chinom , Rav Goren also was bursting with love for his fellow Jew!

no one cares if hitler ate drek, point is he loved animals more than humans, he worried about killing animals but murdered millions of humans mercilessly. He would not have treated his dog the way he treated humans As for fish they do not even require shechita, the only ones who care about fish are the PETA idiots who sent Obama a fly catcher after his brave act of mercilessly killing a fly in front of a TV camera and bragging about how awsome he is

do you wear synthetic shoes as well? Your comments well reflect someone who hasn't spoken to her own sister for 40 years. It shows that you've got your values spot on.

I am not quite sure where your arguments is going- you say synthetic fur Shtreimels are more common, and this won't cause as much harm to ultra-Orthodox public. The fur products trade is an industry that is on its last leg- no coats, no beaverhats anymore....steam engines gave way to electro motors... things come and go... so this is a lame arguments. We are talking how many people involved in the industry 100, 1000, 5000?- fur coats for whome? Russian mafia? Arab sheik's wives? No self-respecting western woman will wear a fur coat anymore- so if not for the hats- and the coats- what exactly is left to manufacture? Synthetic fur was invented to replace real fur, it is more durable, almost as beautiful, less expensive- so what is the problem? re PETA: every rights group has extremists- you should know that. In order to get heard, every group starts at the top with the attacks and re-education. You call them eco-terrorists- ? They have done many good deeds- unlike the real terrorist groups who just destroy- so this is a wrong analogy. I do not believe animals should be treated like human beings, but then I also do not believe that human beings should behave like animals either.

what is this? The joke of the week? Last week it was a riot over a parking lot the week before using a pen on Shabbat to press a button on a moblie phone. The week before that segregated buses... with all the vital decisions Israel and its politicians have to make, to get anything resembling peace- they have to fight over trivia like this? Totally amazing!

Ultra orthodox, haredim, fanatics, zealots.etc.,always comply with god's wishes when it suits them and, when not in the scriptures, invent them -- hat and all. Looking grotesque is one of them. Zilch as far as contribution to society, any society, is another one. Living in ghetto-like quarters (they call it shteitl) is a god's command?. Is sweating and stinking like hell under their middle ages "accoutrement" part of it as well? I think that our Govt. should name one of them in EVERY country as Embassador of the Jewish people.

Streimels were probably unknown in the Middle Ages. They seem to have been adapted from the Polish upper class in the 17th and 18th Centuries. If I am correct streimels are made from fox fur and most countries allow the culling of foxes to protect farm animals. The Chinese eat dog and cat meat, so the fur is a biproduct the same as leather from cows.

Your Master's degree in Eng. literature and your defense of your use of certain terms, misses the point. Your English usage is not the issue. the SUBSTANCE of your posts indicates you are a bigot. Your respect for animals outweighs your respect for humans. And Roman exposed you admirably.

When will you start caring more about humans than animals? It is more cruel that Jewish people are being killed by pali murderers than poor cats and dogs being killed for streimels. When will you enact a law condeming Pali muderers? When will you enact the death penalty and far more sever punishments for those who kill Jewish citizens?

Politicians are politicians. Mischigas is mischigas. Always the twin meet. With perhaps 1% of the population involved in this furry story, the knesset is wasting it's time.

It's actually thriving out of it. And the thing is, is it such a good idea to destroy the livelihood of several hundred families during an economic disaster period? Such concerns are a luxury of better times, not when the unemployment rate is on a constant rise and no one is sure if tomorrow he'll still have a job, or if his company will exist. And as for the PETA, read up on ELF (Earth Liberation Front) and ALF (Animal Liberation Front), both of which receive financial support, legal backing, and enjoy numerous dual members with the PETA.

then keep the propaganda on TV and in print about how it is sadistic and wrong and anti-Torah principles. Nowhere does it say "Though shalt wear a hat of fur", but Judaism does have a number of principles that speak to treating all beings well even animals.

And just to prove it i will walk through meir Shareem naked. Seriously its time to stop this barbaric trade. If these fanatics must walk around with a dead animal on their head let it be synthetic. As long as their is a demand these poor defenselss animals will suffer. Ban the fur trade now !

whenever times are tough- nature suffers..... people can help themselves- Nature cannot.... all this concern about suffering people and unemployment- the fur people had good times, so now the tide is turning. Do we, every time the economy has a down turn go back to wasting energy, killing animals for fur? I don't buy your argument. And FYO I lived in Canada, know all about fur trade and what changed in the past years- people are coping and surviving- not thanks to shtreimels... I know about all the bleeding heart groups and while I am not a member of any of them and do not endorse many of their ideas- humans have done so many cruel and stupid things, it is time to change the mindset about killing animals for useless things. #46 Shira: what exactly has your point to do with real fur- or synthetic fur hats? Who said anything about killing Jews? This is 2009 not WWII- is it not possible to care about people and NOT kill animals for frivolous reasons? It does not say in any book or scripture that the hats have to be made out of real fur. As for jobs: make hats from fake fur- and who on earth is still buying fur coats? Many manufacturers of goods have had to change their wares- so why not fur hat makers? I have not heard one single arguments that makes sense so far.

In the story with Adam and Eve wearing the animal skins, it is part of the sadness of the story. It's like with the animal sacrifices, it's in connection to ideas of sin and death and substitution.

From what I have heard he had various meat dishes, so I do not view him as one. People try to say that he was a multiple on and off again Vegetarian, but I've never really heard of anyone being this way and if so what would be the point?

Roman, I lived in a city in Canada where the change in attitude to wearing dead animals had a great impact on local furriers ( they were Jewish- if this makes a difference to you- and they were our friends). And you know what? They survived, they branched out- got away from the dead animals- they started using fake furs and it was a huge success- instant riches- they retired as millionaires to Florida. So- no I don't buy the destroying the livelihood story- . They are holding on to something that is out of date and with the price of real fur rising- in a few years synthetic furs will be the only thing people can afford anyway. The only ones wearing real fur will be the show offs- and is this religious?

at least know that it is correct , not estimates or look around . YOU have to proove their correctness . If you can't they are not true .

I did'nt say practiccal , but not ADAPTED . Hatred : i did'nt see the words : i hate , dislike and so . Are'nt they fanatics ? Are'nt they ridicule in their outfits ? Can't NORMAL people not be embarrassed when seeing them ? They are embarrsssed when they see a woman in a Tshirt , but don't see that they embarrasse . The pot and the kettle . Comparing a yarmulke , a turban to a straimel ? again an "estimate or look around" from you . People all over the world , when they see pictures of those people see them as "reprentative pictures" of the Israelis , of the Jews . They see also those "sensational" hatefilled faces throwing stones and so . For those abroad it are Israelis .

References please .

Charles is right, Roman. 'representative pictures of Israel' : just as the Israeli press publishes pics of Muslim demonstrators in Europe- and calls them Europeans- (i.a. in TB ALL EUROPEANS are anti-semites- you heard it before!). The European press in turn publishes pics of screaming Haredi throwing stones etc, , settlers with guns .... you get the idea....(i.A. guess what? ALL Israelis are religious fanatics etc...) the media everywhere is always presenting controversial footage- unfortunately it taints the entire population- and it is hard to get people away from stereotypical and false images. Roman you may not care, the haredi might not care- but many Israelis do care, so do many Europeans, French, Swiss, Italians etc... People and group that are not mainstream, that do not fit in always have a harder time. When they are quietly separate and 'different' there is no problem, but when they start to flex muscles and demand the majority of people change their ways because of their demands- then there is a problem. There has been a controversy about once a week for the past several months- it looks like there is a pattern emerging. You tell me!

In Antwerp [ Belgium ] there were 25,000 diamond polishers in the 70's . now remain only a1000 . www.diamondsnews.com/surat It's abroad ? yes [ i did'nt find Israeli stats or numbers ] , but they lost their livelihood for sure , and had to adapt themselve to the new conditions . PS . When i give a number i can give a reference too .

You've made exactly the point I was trying to make, although my argument seemed to entirely escape both Roman and Tami who assume that if you care about animals, you don't give a damn about people, although the two are in no way mutually exclusive. My point is that since the Haredim are so visible because of their mode of dress, those who don't have a familiarity with Israel assume this is what Israelis, in particular, and Jews, in general, look like. We've all seen this portrayal of Israel in both movies and even music videos although we know the Haredim are a tiny minority and that real Israelis look and dress just like everybody else. In fact, it's as ludicrous as assuming that all the people who live in Pennsylvania look like the Amish.