Opinion
Don’t escape reality
Dana Golan
Published: 16.07.09, 01:07
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29 Talkbacks for this article
1. most moral army
alexi   (07.16.09)
This business of stating israel is the world's most moral army is useless. Jews were very moral preworld war ll. It did them a lot of good, eh? But Golan would object if we used dirty methods against the nazis to save jews. The arabs are the world's best at terror, blowing up people, severing limbs with suicide bombs, and rockets with rusty nails and ball bearings, russian antitannk rockets, booby traps IEDs, terrrorists dressed as women or hiding behind kids. And Dana Golan, Dana olmert are all the same. You protest if we get blown up, its too hard, give them one sided concessions like olmert, dismantle israel. Barak gives you a good plan, asymmetric against terror, rough and tough and it saves idf soldiers. You still complain we are too tough with the arabs. You make me want to vomit, you gas chamber sympathizers.IDF is doing exactly, exactly what we should do, exactly. Who cares about the dana golans, dana olmerts, shaul olmerts, ariel olmerts, all protesters and idf haters. You make me sick.
2. Your job, Madame Golan, is to present the evidence
Jake   (07.16.09)
The IDF Spokeswoman has responded to the so-called allegations from 'Breaking the Silence' by asking the organization to at least have the common decency to humor the IDF with specifics and details that would enable the supposed events to be investigated, instead of simply running to the foreign media, preaching to the converted with hazy and incoherent information. The ball is now in your court. Your response is this perplexingly long diatribe, big on lofty pontificating and moralizing, all one big smokescreen to obfuscate your failure to deliver clear, relevant, and coherent FACTS and EVIDENCE.
3. We dismiss them
Danny   (07.16.09)
because so much turns out to be lies or exaggerations. If Dana Golan was really concerned about morality and human rights then this article would be bemoaning: 1) The labelling of EVERYTHING as a "war crime". This is a trend our enemies started and as Orwell once said when everyone is guilty no one is guilty. 2) The use of civilian deaths by our enemies as "proof" of civilians being targeted along with the repetition in the media and Israel's reluctance to bomb or shell anyway. All this leads to is our enemies storing their weapons and "fighters" in civilian areas and amongst civilians, inevitably raising the civilian death toll. These are the things that lead to the decline that Dana so decries more so than a million commanders saying "kick their ass"
4. breaking the silence
anonymous ,   usa   (07.16.09)
I am the parent of an idf soldier who participated in operation cast lead. he is circumspect as to what happened there. my concern was that he return home safe and sound which he did. however, the realities a soldier faces in combat calls for split second reaction- not the calm and measured reactions of one who has time to think and ponder what they are doing. it is a matter of life and death these brave soldiers confront. I would rather see my son and the other soldiers return home to their parents and loved ones having reacted timely to save their lives and their fellow comrades. and, if a soldier acted precipitously against a gazan - so be it. mr golan was teacher and as woody allen said: those who can't - they teach. in all due respect a teacher and his/her classroom is a far different venue than combat.
5. Breaking the silence
Thomas ,   Hungary   (07.16.09)
Israel was built by the Holocaust generation which had smelled the stench of burning flesh...Those people knew how to fight for their country but those heroes - for the most part - are now departed and a large segment of the present generation is trained by the KAPOS, self-loathers at Haaretz, the "rape Israel" - scumbags. Dana Golan and her ilk, financed by the Jew hater Europeans and the Bolshevik Jewish coterie of the Kenyan Messiah, Hussein O. forebode the coming disintegration of Israel. All the more so because the Jewish society is unwilling or unable to expunge the traitors, KAPOS, collaborators from their rank because of dearth of will to live. A handful of self-loathing KAPO capable of intimidating the whole country? None of you have the moral fortitude to say shut up? Just like at the gates of Dachau? (Shut up! I already smelled the decomposing bodies around me! - I came back from the ghetto)
6. DANA GOLA ,YOU CARE MORE ABOUT FALESTINIANS??
ROSENVALD ,   BRASIL   (07.16.09)
I PREFERE THE GAZA WAR THAT THE LEBANON WAR. IF THE ARMY DID FIGHT BAY THIS WAY IN LEBANON,MAY BE ISRAEL DID NOT LOST HUNDRETS SOLDIERS.
7. I agree with one point:
IDF S/Sgt. (Ret.) ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (07.16.09)
The IDF should investigate the claims thoroughly. Unfortunately for Segen Golan and Breaking the Silence, this has to include the names and units of those giving testimony, so that their stories can be checked. Most of the "evidence" released seems to be hearsay or second- and third-hand testimony, filled with expressions like, "I heard from..." or "I was told by a friend who was there..." Hearsay of this nature is inadmissible in a court of law, why should it be admissible in the court of public opinion? Let's get to the truth and let the real guilty ones be punished, including the witnesses who perjure themselves.
8. Conclusions
Ricardo Macher ,   KarneiShomron-Israel   (07.16.09)
Reading this attack to Tzahal, what comes to my mind is that something is really wrong within the army. This lady shouldn't have been working in "Educational Corps"! Actually she should have been expelled from the army. Even if she had interviewed 60 soldiers instead of 30, the fact that they are ashamed to give their names and that they represent less than 0,01% of the soldiers makes all this stupid arguments worthless. Why should the press give free space to a dozen of self haters?
9. leftists live of Saudi money
a Jew ,   TA, Israel   (07.16.09)
yesterday, Jerusalem post published an report, in which they claim that the Human rights organizations get a fair fraction of their donations from Saudi Arabia. All these anonymous reports by leftists are prepared in Riad.... Leftists, at least some of them, are paid agents of the enemy.
10. Death to the messanger!
James Hovland ,   USA   (07.16.09)
I didn't need to read about this here, there are plenty of other news site running the same basic story. Dana Golan isn't the only one reporting on this, so if you people are serious about attacking the messenger, you had better get busy. Just Google "Breaking the Silence". You have a lot of comments to post before the night is over, and remember, tomorrow is a new day.
11. The law of war.
Ron B. ,   Lod   (07.16.09)
It should be clear and beyond doubt : although the IDF is the most moral army in the world, our main concerne should be, first of all, to keep our children alive. Any other consideration is of minor importance. As to the Arabs they don’t want peace as explained at : http://xrl.us/be3agy
12. #10, that is because they are all copying each other
Danny   (07.16.09)
Basically someone digs up a soldier who heard something from someone else - possibly, assuming they are not simply making it up - and then the media goes crazy with it. It is like the issue of cluster bombs in South Lebanon. It all began with one unsubstantiated - and almost certainly false - claim by a freelancer writing for Ha'aretz and every single article since essentially is repeating - and amplifying - what this guy wrote.
13. Prominent members of the Jewish community...
Dan ,   Auckland,New Zealand   (07.16.09)
...were saying the same thing back in Russia during the Mendel Beylis trial. They were saying that, ok, may be Mendel Beylis didn't murder Andrey Yuschinsky, but we need to send a strong signal that we will not tolerate ritual murderers in our midst so that every Mendel Beylis know that ritual murder is unacceptable even if he is desperate for some passover matzo. They apologized, and demanded harsh punishment for Mendel, to make the message clear. Different century, same rumors, canards, and libels. Some people just never learn...
14. Reaction to "Breaking the Silence" human rights report
Love of the Land ,   lsrael   (07.16.09)
The IDF Spokesperson Unit regrets the fact that yet another human rights organization is presenting to Israel and the world a report based on anonymous and general testimonies, without investigating their details or credibility. http://calevbenyefuneh.blogspot.com/2009/07/reaction-to-breaking-silence-human.html#links
15. Funding for your organization
Carl ,   Israel   (07.16.09)
Dana--your organization presents hearsay evidence from anonymous witnesses and is funded by European organizations who meddle in our affairs (http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article/breaking_the_silence_shovirm_shtika_) Why should we take what you say seriously? I also served in the IDF and I can tell you that as far as my personal experience goes, it is a very moral army.
16. Sorry, Golan, but this is not reality
JPS ,   Efrat   (07.16.09)
For the testimonials to be part of reality, the soldiers have to come forward and identify themselves. You simply cannot draw conclusions from anonymous accusations. It is very simple to take Dana Golan's glib thinking and conclude the following: "The first place where I encountered the immense gap between the Education Corp’s training base and reality on the ground was in Ramat Aviv. There, the blue notebook that details values such as purity of arms, credibility, human life, responsibility, discipline, and personal example remained in one’s pocket. Ramat Aviv is not too far from here, yet it is located in a different world. After all, most of us don’t go there and it's hard to find any soldiers from there anymore, let alone those who served in Hebron. "
17. breaking the silence/cast lead
dan vered ,   jerusalem   (07.16.09)
i took part in operation cast lead as an advaced master sergeant in an armored recon unit. at all times our leaders kept stressing that the world is watching, our own drones were recording everything, and that any and all violations of the clearly definedrules of engagement would not be tolerated. i have been at the tip of the sword for 22 years now, and have never done anything legally, or morally wrong in the army,thus i also break my silence and pray other soldiers do also
18. Who cares war is war
Gail ,   Israel   (07.16.09)
We are dealing with a Terrorist mentality that only understands strength and death and if the shoe was on the other foot and if they had the power they would not worry about the morels of there "soldiers" every Jewish death would have been another virgin in heaven, they got what they deserved, it was about time we fought back, and if that was what really happened then who cares, I as a citizen don't! It was about time I felt that my country was protecting me and my family, maybe after the embarrassment of Lebanon our wonderful soldiers needed to hear that ...If it is true?? which I do not believe... anyway we Jews tend to always feel guilty of existing... so we are very moral.. to moral if you ask me. What I do not understand is where is our loyalty to our army?... instead of insulting them we should be saying THANK YOU for once you were protecting us ,unlike the summer of 2005... now you were fighting the enemy not you brothers. Dana tell the soldiers to keep there mouths shut and to be proud and loyal...We are our worst enemy.
19. WAR IS WAR
MAHIR ZARA ,   BABGKOK, THAIKAND   (07.16.09)
THERE IS NOTHING TO TALK AND APOLOGIZE ABOUT. ISRAEL REACTED TO SHELLING OF ITS CIVIL POPULATION FROM GAZA, UNDER THE CONTROL OF ITS DULY ELECTED RULERS. IF THE GAZANS DO NOT LIKE TO BE SHELLED AND KILLED, THEY SGOULD CONSIDER STOPPING THE BELLIGERENT ACTS OF THEIR RULERS, VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE. THERE S NO SUCH A THING AS EXCESSIVE FORCE WHEN A COUNTRY RESPONDS TO ATTACKS ON ITS CIVILIAN POPULATION. THOSE WHO DO NOT LIKE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS CAN BEGIN BY STOPPING THEM.
20. Were any human shields executed?
Raphael ,   Netanya   (07.16.09)
Samir Kuntar, after serving prison for taking hostage and murdering a whole family, including a baby, was heroized by the arab world. This is the usual proceeding of our arab cousins, so stop self flogging! And if some of the witnesses are fake, punish them the way they deserve.
21. DID THE "BRAVE PALESTINIANS WARRIORS" CARE ABOUT CIVILIANS
Narah Correa ,   BRASIL   (07.16.09)
WHEN THEY THROW ROCKETS OR EXPLODE BOMBS IN RESTAURANTS, BUSES, SCHOOLS, STREETS, HOMES, ETC............. AT THE ISRAELI TERRITORY ??????? ENLIGHTEN ME ABOUT THAT MS GOLAN.........
22. Dear Dana Golan
israeli ,   israel   (07.16.09)
Turn yourself in and stand trial!
23. #20, i would like to see libel trials
Danny   (07.16.09)
If these people have knowingly made false statements to deliberately damage Israel's reputation then Israel should sue them. A few of these guys in cardboard boxes would teach these people a healthy respect for the truth.
24. FINALLY the IDF shows some cahonas
5th generation ,   Israel   (07.16.09)
and lets Israel give as bad as she gets. The ignorant handwringers of the world will allow ilk like the Pals to destroy the world - just look at Europe imploding.
25. Breaking the Truth
Mickey ,   Sydney Australia   (07.16.09)
1. The report, as given to the IDF less than 24 hours prior to its publication, is based on testimonies that lack critical identifying features: a. No identification whatsoever was used for those who gave their testimonies, not even a first initial, as is customary throughout the media when a quote is given in anonymity. b. There is no mention of rank or position at the time of the claimed incidents. c. There is no mention of unit or unit type (regular or reserves). 2. The report makes no mention of the way in which the testimonies were gathered – it is not clear whether they were gathered directly via interview or indirectly via mail or e-mail. It is unclear whether there is one interviewer or more, or whether those who gave their testimonies were interviewed individually or in groups. 3. There is no mention of how the credibility of the testimonies was checked: a. There is no way of knowing whether the testimony was given by a soldier or someone claiming to be a soldier. b. There is no mention of time period (date and time) or specific location with regards to the incidents described in the testimonies.
26. #25 the gist is not that
Thomas ,   USA   (07.16.09)
Of course foreign financiers will always find willing Kapos among the Jews - the very word "kapo" was borne out of Jewish behavior during the Holocaust - so no surprise here. What is astonishing is it's the Jewish society absolute lame, paralyzed inability to forcefully stand up against their slanderers like Naturei Karta, Gideon Levy, Peace Now, and these nameless, faceless, concealed identity freaks like this Golan person. No wonder the German Der Spiegel, the Dutch radio and other outlets simultaneously published this propaganda piece by ANONYMOUS individuals- like a well coordinated choir. In the US there are countless Bolshevik, Jewish, investigative self-loathing reporter sniffing for incriminating evidences on those who are not in the Messiah Hussein camp. How come that we can see no detailed info on these people like Golan...why is no counter-intelligence agency is implemented by Israel to fend off the damages by enemies who are hell bent destroying your country - for money?
27. Don't escape reality
Rummsfeldt ,   Munich Germany   (07.18.09)
Reading all those talkbacks on the article of Dana Golan I only have to say: If these talkbacks mirror the mainstream opinions of Israeli society, Israel has a big problem: There might be massacres, massive violations of the Geneva Convention, cruelty against civilians etc by the IDF - and the majority of Israeli citizens turns their backs on it and proclaims: "We don't care and say it british: "Right or wrong: My country:" So: You don't have to wonder, that more and more military personnel of the IDF stays in Israel for holiday reasons: Many of the European countries take the violation of international law quite serious and will take legal action against one or another IDF field commander. So: Thanks for the good work you do, Dana!
28. #27 Rummsfeld, Munich .de
Thomas ,   USA   (07.18.09)
What you state is hogwash: according to this group assertions they received the following amount of money from these sources to spawn Anti-Israeli propaganda: "In response to the claims, Breaking the Silence presented the Post with its donor list for 2008. The British Embassy in Tel Aviv gave the organization NIS 226,589; the Dutch Embassy donated €19,999; and the European Union gave Breaking the Silence €43,514. The NGO also received funding from the New Israel Fund amounting to NIS 229,949. " So go back to your Hitler's bunker and keep singing Horst Wessel you barbarian teuton. Hopefully the Turks will wipe you out in due time from within.
29. #27
(07.21.09)
How do you know that these "soldiers" exist? How do you know they aren't drug addicts or criminals paid for false testimony? All "breaking the silence" had to do is give some details to allow an objective investigator to find out what really happened.
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