Jewish Scene
Kids are joy
Yael Mishali
Published: 20.07.09, 23:14
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1. amen, i agree
david   (07.21.09)
but, of course, i would strongly encourage all those who attended the kolech conference to have their tubes tied. i give them my personal heter!
2. A Good Article
Ari ,   Jerusalem   (07.20.09)
An interesting, honest article. There should be more of these...
3. BEAUTIFUL!
lildoobird ,   Jerusalem   (07.20.09)
4. To each his own
David G   (07.21.09)
As an individual who grew up in a small family and one who would like a larger one (God willing) when I get married (God willing). I am able to see both sides of this issue. Unfortunately the author of this article by deriding those who support strict family planning is guilty of the same bullying that she is apposing. The size of a family is a choice between the husband and wife, and is neither good nor bad, unless their choice becomes harmful to society. If a family can afford to raise and take care of a dozen children, mazal-tov. But if a woman desires to have a rewarding and challenging carrier which would understandably restrict the size of her family that is her right. Or if a couple wants to live in an urban area and cannot afford enough space for a large family then that is what they have chosen for themselves. Kids are a joy, but also no size family fits all.
5. You only have the kids
Pastaneta ,   NYC   (07.21.09)
you can afford. The Haredim are having kids and asking everybody else to pay for them, while they don't contribute anything to the sate., These are parasites. If you have children, you should be able to give them a home, a real education (not a yeshiva which doesn't train for the world) etc.
6. And This Article Has What To Do With The Criminal Case?
Seth ,   Washington, DC   (07.21.09)
7. Terrific article. people without values become more
Jae ,   Lynn US   (07.21.09)
narcisistic, selfish, self centered. 1 spolied kid who becomes a brat gets the attention of 5 well adjusted well behaved healthy kids in a big family. so yea i want population control- of bratty, non empathic children raised by narcisistic money worshipping self centered parents These are the kids who become tomorrow's idiot leaders
8. At who's expense?
Ben ,   Monroe USA   (07.21.09)
Children bring joy. Children can be a pleasure. Children need, homes, loving parents, clothing. food, schooling, etc. Parents who do not provide the basic needs but depend upon their governments, their neighbors to provide should limit their progeny. Should I have to provide for you and your children merely because your rabbi said so? I think not. You are not disabled; you are capable of honest labor. I assure you, my family will come first. The rabbi, in so many words, said go ahead have a dozen children, live on the dole; have the Israeli government pay your way while you sit in a yeshivah. When you present me the exact words in the Torah where Hashem said this is the way to live, then and only then will I buy the rabbi's words. Study all you want, but first provide for your family. Otherwise, your are merely a leech.
9. Have as much as you want to have, end of story!!
Aaron ,   LA, USA   (07.21.09)
No halacha or religion or rabbi or state law should dictate how many kids you have. Just have the number you feel is right. Each one is a mitzvah, doesn't mean an official number should be set.
10. family
colin   (07.21.09)
Typical religious brain washing. Backward,foolish against all modern civil life,and try blame the others(secular) for the suffering.No self respect no natural enjoyment of family and only a breeding machine for the rabbis.
11. Overstating it
Israeli grandmother   (07.21.09)
Kolech is neither "feminist" nor anti-motherhood and your writer grossly overstates her position. Even "Hiloni" mothers who come from secure families have the natural desire for children and the role of nurturer which comes naturally to most women, and large numbers of men. Having children is a human desire, and the fact that we normally have one at a time and not litters like animals, does not mean that we should have minimal numbers of children per family.
12. a real article, finally
gmail ,   israel, holon   (07.21.09)
13. Thank you YNet
Shalom   (07.21.09)
You see - I don't only criticise. This was a great article
14. But Mrs, Mischali:
Robert Haymond ,   Ashdod, Israel   (07.21.09)
One point of clarification if you will: Do you think a large family, fulfilling as it is, is also the socially responsible thing to do if you can't afford to raise the children and/or if you have to depend on the state to support you? I wish you'd tackle that question as well as it's quite a pertinent one not only in Israel but elsewhere.
15. Haredim have kidnapped Yael Mishaeli and Nahum Barnea
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (07.21.09)
And submitting articles to YNet using their names. Free Mishaeli and Barnea now!
16. yeah right, shut up,
ghostq   (07.21.09)
kid r not joy but head ache. today raising one child can cost a lot of money to bring so many you need to be millionair, but as you see orthosdox love other people money, and count on others to rais their children. do the world a favore rais your children on your own expense. free loaders basterds.
17. Yael , do YOU have a LARGE family ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.21.09)
When i see [ very ] young mothers with one or two , and another in the making , babies , i think by myself that they are still young girls , just old enough to be their sister , not their mother . Yes , in those big families the older ones have to replace the mother , take care of their youngest sibblings . A mother of a large family can't give this attention to all her children , she has only two hands and no more than 24 hours a day . And the financial side ? Not many large families have enough income for this . They need a big home , you can't live in a four room appartement with six or more children . Not to talk about school and higher education . And it's not with the children allowance that you can make it .
18. everybody always says how the haredim leave the state to pay
mo ,   israel   (07.21.09)
for all their kids... i am haredi and i have 8 kids and i pay for every single thing they need from my pocket. it is a challenge, but i do it. what i want to know is , if the "state" is paying for everybody elses kids (like you always say) - where do i sign up?!
19. I'm a proud jewish, secular, married, mother of 4 children!
(07.21.09)
Amen!!
20. Ruining society
Hannah ,   Israel   (07.21.09)
After the women's liberation movement of the late sixties has destroyed the fabric of western society, it is now attacking an remnant of the healthy life style which once permeated Jewish society. The greatest joy and satisfaction in life is raising happy and healthy children to be healthy, responsible and caring adults, capable of carrying on this life style. This takes dedication and the raw materials - children. Yes, women can work help support their families, but this is a secondary function. Our primary function is the care and tending of our families and homes and nothing is more satisying that this.
21. Secular women who make their own choices are "terrorists?!"
Mel O. Yello ,   Carmiel, Israel   (07.21.09)
How much difference does this make to haredim, and is it any of the haredim's business. The tone of this article: "I believe...therefore you should all believe the same."
22. A matter of want
nadav ,   tlv   (07.21.09)
women and couples should have children only when THEY want to, and NOT because they are told to do so by some Haredi "rebbe" or their parents for that matter. Not all men and women are cut out to be parents. I think the daily news has shown why this is true. Also, we are not living in a third world country, we don't need 7 sons and 7 daughters to plow the fields, cook, clean, etc. Two or three children is enough. That way we can focus on their education and general upbringing. Education is one key factor that the author glances over. its very expensive to educate children, and why have children if you can't educate them to the max? Don't we all want the THE BEST for our kids? Having 9 or 14 children, like Muslim Arabs and Haredim would limit how much we can invest in their education (unless you have lots of $$ of course)...
23. I agree
Max ,   France   (07.21.09)
Hello, I think you said what many people think.If the writer of this artlicle was a man, he would have been insulted and accused of macho-ism. I am not a fan of religion and there are a lot of things that annoy me in the haredi society when I read about it in the news (they don t serve in the army, abuse the system...).But I really think that some feminists are becoming as extremist as the haredi population in their way of thinking and that they reject any behavior that could resemble the one of the religious groups. I see the feminists as an intolerant group.It is too much.It is good to defend women s rights and to defend equality but this is going too far unfortunately. Max
24. to charles
suz ,   israel   (07.21.09)
who are you to say how many rooms you need for a certain amount of kids?! where does it say that every kid needs their own room? what's wrong with sharing, caring about others, learning to live with others and feeling like a part of a family and not being a spoiled brat ?
25. Kids Are Joy
Yaacov Shapiro ,   Jerusalem   (07.21.09)
Thank you Yael Would anyone if offered a million dollars for not seeing or hearing from one one their bothers or sisters the rest of their lives accept the offer even though they were to be assured that their siblings would be fine. I don't think so! My six children is worth over 6 million dollars! What a rich man am I. Y. T. S. Jersusalem
26. #25 Yaacov- congratulations
Lisa   (07.21.09)
I agree with you Yaacov- you are a rich and fortunate man- I am not so sure if people think 6 children as being a HUGE family-we are talking 12 and more-. it is also not only the size of the house and the income that is the argument against large family. What I personally would object too for religious and secular couples- any couple- to be pressured into having more and more children for the sake of the relatives, the rabbis, the priests, etc...----- a woman , feminist or not, should have children when SHE is ready, when SHE wants them, as close or as far apart as SHE decides. It is HER body, HER mind, her health- not the husband, not the rabbi, not the mother etc.. Yes, encourage her- but do not put pressure on her- . The community should help and support, so should the family- but there have been several cases lately with tragic consequences for the children- .All the support levels have failed the women- THIS is the problem.
27. Suz , Israel
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.21.09)
Having 8 grandchildren [ 6 + 2 ] i know something about this problem . I NEVER said that every child needs his/her own room , but there is a minimum needed . Yes caring about others can be fine , but children are'nt there to care about their younger sisters/brothers . Ask the older ones in very large families . And children of 4-5 going to kindergarten with two of their younger brothers/sisters is irresponsible [ i have seen it more than once here ]
28. Mo , 18 . Don't you receive "children allowance" ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.21.09)
I know , it's not with this that you can pay all the needed expenses . But don't tell me that you don't receive anything .
29. Yaacov , my children are woth this per GRAM
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.21.09)
And my grand children , per mg . You are a "poor" guy [ LOL ]
30. What a christian minded article.
John ,   Europe   (07.21.09)
1) Children planing CAN be within Halacha bounds, as we all know. So you can't compete there: Torah forbids wasting sperm outside of female's body, but it does not forbid contraception that prevents fertilization. Sorry. So, in a sense, YES, family planing is in Torah. 2) "Multiply and fulfill the Earth" - let's remind that this is a mitzva to LIVING CREATURES, not to Jews exclusively - well, we already did that. There is about 6,4 billion people on Earth and growing - I'd say that covers about everything needed. Excessive population leads to corrections - diseases, wars, poverty. So, G-d gives us signal when it is "stop", and we see, around us, that that signal has been given. 3) I agree that big family can be joy. And yes, I know many families that have plenty of children (mine, i.e.). BUT! To tag that only big families are joyful and that small ones are not - that's presumptuous. 4) I fail to see how did "super egocentric... worldview" penetrated Mishali's sphere? Did her children start to plan her family? And she does not approve of it? Well - sorry, but it is not on you to decide? Judaism has LONG and STILL has a problem with control: everything is about controlling how will somebody live, what will eat, how will dress, what will speak. Torah does it in an attempt to make a man/woman out of simple "bag of emotions". But did it succeed? Nope. We all see this. But what Torah NEVER did is to take somebody's will: you do it or not, it is up to you. And that is EXACTLY what I resent in this artice: no, nothing changed, Mishali, there were temptations in middle ages, there were assimilation, conversions, who knows what even in time of Maimonides. But you seem to think that today temptations start? I tell you, if your child starts to plan a family, that's YOUR CHILD'S CHOICE! Temptations in magazines? Sorry, but since when did we start to blame Satan for tempting? We are JEWS! We do not blame Him for tempting us - that's the whole point! Satan is not to blame - your child is!
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