Jew on Jew hatred, didn't it destruct us once? As we come close to the 9 be Av after a paroxy of hatred in the media against this sick woman (and after all where were the social services, the hospital, the pundits all this time?), you bring us hope that we still have a chance to live together in this besieged country of ours.

This article is a classic example of the hypocritical, liberal-democratic establishment standing up for the rights of the underdogs. The only problem is that the haredim are not underdogs here.

how is that possible when the average haredi household has 5 kids, whose children do not serve in the army and who sucker the money from the government shouldered by the tax payer. it seems to me the case is the other way around, Haredim want to diminish the state in order to build their Taliban-like utopia of no modernity and Luddite aversion to technology and horrifying ideas such as equality of the sexes.

There has to be bridges between the religoius and secular. Stop the hating from one group to the other. But I have a question for Hadasa Why don't they give an accounting of when the child was admitted and what was their treatment and show the vedeo of how the mother pulled the feeding tube ? lets have some tansparancy to cool the heads.

The only problem I have is that the author feels that a responsible Israel nees to disprove these suspicions. His assumptions are that they are false. Are they, indeed, false, or are there many who have tried (and perhaps are still trying) to execute these plans?

Law should be objective (justice is blind). Haredim should not be singled out for scorn, ridicule or harsh edicts. But society deserves blind enforcement of law & order- no excuses for vandalism or physical attacks no matter the provocation. If the mother abused her child, the law must intervene and no mob should interfere with that.

No compliance at all if they break the law violently.

Can we not make moral distinctions? This is the responsibility of rabbis and other communal leaders. Protesting "Gay pride" parades in Jerusalem is one thing. So is the protest of the forcible uprooting of Jews from our land. Violent protests against a hospital that "might" be protecting a child from an abusive parent is quite another, it seems to me. Did the hospital err? We don't know. In this instance isn't discretion the better part of valor? We have this Jewish Proverb: "A tranquil heart is life to the body, "But passion is rottenness to the bones." Mr. Barnea wrote: "During the winter, we went for a walk – a group of secular Israelis – in Mea Shearim on Shabbat. Rain was falling so we pulled out our umbrellas. “Shabbes,” the locals screamed at us from their windows. Passersby directed hostile glares at us. We did not understand why they were so angry at us. We were angered by their irritation. "The following day we looked into it, and it turned out that using umbrellas is considered desecration of the Shabbat. The ignorance in this case belonged to us. And so did the shame." Why shame? "We opened our umbrellas" innocently in the rain. Where is the reasonableness? Barnea wrote, "many haredim truly believe that the secular Israel plots to exterminate them, and if not that, then to humiliate them...." If this is true, if violence is motivated in part by the perception of humiliation, is this a justifiable cause for violence?

One does not try criminal cases in a court of public opinion but in a court of law. If you did it your way, they would riot because the mother can not get a fair trial because the release of evidence has prejudice people against her. Also, the child is a victim and deserves some privacy.

While I could never live in haredi society I believe they have just as much right as any other Jew to live in this land. It seems that in this country every faction is of the mind that "if you are not like me you are wrong".Secular hates religion, straight hates gay, reform hates orthodox--this is just wrong. We are busy fighting each other while our enemies are training the world to believe we are interlopers in our own country. If we can't learn tolerance for each other we risk destruction.

by virtue of their behaviour. They have zero respect for others, zero respect for the law, do not pull their weight in society. Why should I respect them. I have nothing but contempt for them and our society would be better without them. They are useless and hopeless. They drain from society instead of contributing. They will not be around for a long time as their is a law in nature that will prevent this. An entity that does not adapt itself to a surrounding that is constantly in motion and in change will eventually become extinct. This law is axiomatic.

Steve i can tell you as a gay jew living in Israel. I work pay taxes and serve in the army yet still we are denied our basic human rights in the year 2009. Jerusalem is the capital of all of Israel and the Ultra Orthadox incite hatred and violence on our community based on a religous belief. The gay march is a march for our rights, we are peace loving people and we have as much right as any other group in Israel to demonstrate in our nations capital. The ultra orthadox do not own Jerusalem, yet they feel free to riot and cause distrubances and call our security forces Nazis and behave in such a violent and vulgar way. As i said they object to gay march today then object to people parking their cars next , who is next on their hit list? Its not only about gay rights its about freedom and democracy and that my friend is worth fighting for.

Nobody wants to exterminate the Haredm, except themselves. And that is they want to exterminate their opposing groups, eg satmar vs Habad; Ponovezh 1 vs. Pnovezh 2 etc. To blame this on "modernity" is simply foolish. 2000 years ago when there was no electrical goods or cars, there were swords and Beit Shammai was fighting Beit Hillel over thier conflicitng talmudic "traditions". They did have swords, and they did kill thousands of each other - without resort to internet or radio. So the same tradition exists now, and willd do tomorrow.

Mr. Barnea, I loved your article. I propose that you find a book called "Jewish state - Century later" from ALAN DOWTY. Mr. Dowty is one of the top political sciences expert of today, and the book takes place between creation of Jewish state in 1947 till beginning of 90's. Rather than historically, he is looking in it sociologically, psychologically, through political sciences etc. And asks the great questions - like, when it comes to Jews and Palestinians, it comes to sight that BOTH PEOPLE WERE ALWAYS A MINORITY or, in case of Palestinians, were "tailor made minority" - Arabs that were forced nationalization upon and were made Palestinians. As for Jews - a nation that was always a secluded minority - now has a state - with a minority?! And of course, does not have a long history of dealing with minorities - like have, for example, Americans, who today know perfectly a borderline between permitting something to minority and rejection on the basis of minority's oppression. Let's apply similar to haredim? You have a sect within a minority that for centuries were secluded in shtetls (there is a special name for their community!) Suddenly, they are in a state, yes, of Jews - what is comforting, but in a state that marks deep resemblance to states they were running from: secular, suspicious towards minority etc. What do they do? Why of course they react like they react in shtetl! They DO NOT KNOW OTHERWISE. And what is worse: the separation from shtetl then was death. No kashrut, language, other religions etc... Today, separation from Mea Sharim is NOT DEATH - kashrut is few feet away, language is the same, and only a loony would go to other religion in Israel! So, today's selusion of Haredi community is also a desperate attempt to preserve them as a "sect" with their culture, tradition etc. In a sense, they are to Israel as were Jews long time ago to their foster countries.

If you go by the rules of nature the Jews would be like the Romans and all other powerfull peoples that existed and are now extinct. It is only because of Hashem has a plan and Chose the Jewish Nation and we also had the privilege and at same time the responsibility of receiving the Tora and following the Mitzvot thats why we are still around, And Avi, Homosexuality is an abomination punishable by capital punishment according to Torah. Obviously bringing such vulgar behavior in the holy land and specificalley in Jerusalem should be stoped in any way possible.

You both claim that the charedim and useless and hopeless and are a drain on society have you done a door to door survey in the predominately religious neighborhoods of say Har Nof or Bait Vegan or even Geulah in Jerusalem, and asked about citizenship habits? Do they work? Pay employment taxes? Bituach leumi and cupat cholim payments? How about Arnona, water and electric? I know they all pay sales taxes which are a big earner for the state! So they dont all serve in the army, think about how much money they are saving YOU! Does the army really have the budget or the want and need for them anyhow? The constant accusation is that they dont pull their weight and they are leaches etc you can have 8 kids or so too, and see how far the child allotment gets you! You hate them because they are different then you and thats the bottom line! It costs far more to try and jail a secular criminal for a year then for a large family's child payments for the same year! I want my taxes to go the the bloodsucking charedi family!

they go visit gaza, they brought it on themselves.

May I ask Avi, what rights are you being denied by the state? I am not an overly religious Jew. I have participated in social activism in the past. I have peacefully protested the killing unborn children at the local abortion mill. Quite honestly the homosexual or gay lifestyle is not my issue. To my knowledge I have never written or spoken about it. I do know however, this lifestyle is not something the Torah approves of. Little doubt, I have done and continue to do things that Torah disapproves of. Consequently I would not flaunt these things in public. Why do gays and lesbians want to flaunt a lifestyle, in the holy city, that Jewish law and tradition disapproves of? Like I said, we must make distinctions. I cannot say I am wholly comfortable with the violent parking lot protests - though I know the Sabbath is critically important, For me, the protest of the arrest of this mother, who it would appear abused her own child, is of greater concern. You are right, Jerusalem is the capital of all of Israel. I also pay taxes but there are things I would not flaunt in public even though I pay my taxes. I would not attend a heterosexual parade, much less a homosexual parade. Why parade your private lifestyle? What rights are you being denied?

I can only conclude from your very profound reply that you are safe in the thought that " God " will protect the Haredim from his otherwise sound laws, that is to say, he will make an exception for them, indeed they are " chosen ". As for Avi I understand that he should be hung drawn and quartered, no less, for not only being an " abomination " but for being just that in the " Holy Land " of all places. Poor poor Avi, he did not find favor in the eyes of the Lord, shame on him. People like you are in my view inhuman, while Avi is a blessed individual, in spite of his " sin and abomination ". The Romans did not disappear, they gradually changed and integrated into their surroundings, adapted themselves to the dynamic changes which were taking place and eventually became what is Italy today. The Haredim refuse to do this, they are doomed.

First of all Hashem protects all the Jews. Without his protection we would not be around. Is it so hard to understand that we as a small nation have weathered the storrm ?? How many countries tried to destroy us from Lavan Pharoh Haman up to Hitler Yemach Shmom and we are still around. This is not a natural phenomina. The Babelonians Romans Greeks and many other who were much greater than us in numbers perished. Please think before you reply. Yes we need Hashems help in every step. let us pray that Hashem bring us the ultimate redemption thru the Righteous Mashiach.

Mr Barnea I've never seen an article from you before that I recall, or even heard of you, but I won't forget you now. I really never thought I'd ever see an article with this sort of balance and positivity in an Israeli newspaper.

Perhaps try looking at the picture from another perspective. The haredi community that you hate has been established in Jerusalem and other centres (Jaffo, Acco, Safed, Tiberias, Hebron) for about 150 years (in fact the family of the woman accused has lived in Jerusalem for 120 years). They had a working community structure fitting to their requirements until zionist activists started to destroy it (from around 1918). They don't need your state; they don't need your welfare; they don't need your army. During the 1930s when far-sighted leaders of the community realised that a state was inevitable, they began negotiations using an international lawyer, Dr de Haan, to preserve Jerusalem as an international city. The zionists assassinated Dr de Haan and thus put an end to the negotiations. This attitude has prevailed ever since. Why should they not regard your state as a destructive influence?

wrote:"2000 years ago when there was no electrical goods or cars, there were swords and Beit Shammai was fighting Beit Hillel over thier conflicitng talmudic "traditions". They did have swords, and they did kill thousands of each other - without resort to internet or radio. So the same tradition exists now, and willd do tomorrow." Do you have any source for this nonsense that Bet Shamai and Bet Hillel killed each other-- the talmud Yevamot 14 states that they respected and got along with each other.

"Its not only about gay rights its about freedom and democracy and that my friend is worth fighting for. " Just a little history lesson! Untill the now with the exeception of the US no democracy has lasted for more then about 200 years the charedim in there backwards torah observent ways have outlasted everyone and will continue to with or without a medina. We forget that these hasidim (haredi) do not want a medina and yes they are citizens and so entitled to due rights even if they are backward and not secularly educated. Just like the beduine in the south and the arabs in the north! Quite a few of the terible chasidim make lots of money in diamonds and real estate among other "professions" and they are the same charedim that help support the yeshivot and other community organazations. Who are we to tell them how to live? In our liberated states of mind we forget that our opinions and world view is not everyone elses and just as we have opinions and beliefs so do they and it does not make one right or wrong just different. Avi its so hard to be gay! Do you think a heterosexual pride parade sounds a bit extreme? so why a gay pride parade? Because you want rights, yea right! Its not a protest to show that you deserve rights you could do that in front of the keneset. No a parade is better because its obscene and gets more attention. I am not supporting the riots i think its an aweful response to anything by any group of citizens religious or not. But hey its obscene and it gets more attention.

in what twisted world do you propose to give priority to the feelings of some violent and crazy protesters over the safety of an abused child? if the mother were not a member of a crazy cult, and supported by violent law-breaking thugs, would the police not have arrested her on the spot, right in the hospital? does belonging to a crazy sect give her some kind of immunity? any non-hareidi woman in a similar circumstance wouldn't be under "house arrest" in the home of her rabbi. this has nothing to do with xenophobia, but with a historical injustice - of pandering to minorities, out of some kind of misguided leftist condescension.

as these Mea Shearim guys. If we were, Roman Zadorov could be free long ago. Mind you, there's no slightest evidence against him

What is this article actually SAYING? It was the chareidim in Meah Shearim and Bet Shemesh who went crazy and started rioting because this abusive chareidi woman was arrested. They are the ones who made it into an "us against them" situation and there was no jusitification for it! I was with the chareidim who peacefully protested against a garage opening on shabbos in Jerusalem. But this chareidi rioting over the arrest of an abusive mother who starved her children and whose older children even testify against her? That's crazy! Where is this supposed irrational hatred of the chareidim from the secular and modern orthodox... saying the poor chareidim are "easy targets"? What nonsense! The chareidim are only targeted when they are being chilul Hashem and BEHAVING in an ignorant, backward manner with no respect or love for their fellow Jews who aren't in the same parochial little world they are. Their lives are 100% fear-based: not fear of G-d but fear of the new, the technology, etc. It would do them good if they feared G-d more than television and cars!