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Israel agrees to freeze settlement construction as gesture to US
Roni Sofer
Published: 18.08.09, 00:52
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31. Oh right- Hershkovitz!REPLY
Kyle Heck ,   United States   (08.18.09)
You think the average American, especially the younger generation like me, condones what we did to the Native American? I think it was one of the most awful crimes in human history but its already happened. Right now the Native Americans have been granted their own countries within the US, they don't have to pay taxes, or even follow US law. If you've ever heard of Foxwood Casinos then you've heard of Native Americans that have risen up in this situation to be wealthy, powerful people. The situation isn't nearly comparable unless we decided to take over the Indian Reserves( Sovereign nations withing US) and claim that it is okay because God told us so. If my government did that I would condemn them in strongest possible terms, just like I will say that what Europeans and American did to Native Americans is probably largest genocide in history (yes even worst then the Jewish genocide, look it up), I am so ashamed of that as an American!
32. Yes,conquerd peo. should be able to reclaim land REPLAY
Kyle Heck ,   United States   (08.18.09)
First off to say that Israel reconquered its land purely by itself is to rewrite history. If the US and Europe and supported your nation for last 50 years that would never of happened, and if you disagree then why didn't it happen for 1000 years before that? You accepted are generosity to help you reestablish some sort of homeland in your ancient lands and instead of being happy with that you are getting mad when we ask you to stop expanding? Secondally, if every conquered peoples in history acted like your country the world would be filled with violence and war, just like your little neighborhood is. I think that 99% of modern people would say that wars to reconquer lands lost in past history is totally against the idea of world peace. You people are to self centered to even realize that though aren't you. You think your little country, your city of Jerusalem is what the world should revolve around since God told you so? Keep that up and you will be further and further isolated to the point where the US can't keep up its one sided approach to Israel and Palestine, which you are already seeing. Honestly it doesn't matter to me if you want to keep fighting for next 1000 years but what I am saying is the US won't be there to protect you for more then another 20 or 30 if you decide to choose that path. If you really think your that powerful and reconquered your country through your own countries "might" (with our money and weapons), then please, start a anti American movement and don't accept aid from us. You need us and that is a fact. I'd love to see Israel stand on its own to feet, problem is you cant!
33. Yes, conquered peo. should be able to reclaiim land Reply 2
Kyle Heck ,   United States   (08.18.09)
To follow up I would say that if Israel was attacked by a country anywhere inside its internationally recongnized land that they should be able to beat back any such attack in self defense. But conquering lands that were lost 1000s of years ago is not possibly in modern world war is shunned and peace is the goal. If this was allowed of every conquered nation the world would be in endless strife, you are only country that it is tolerated from, and only you have this distinction is because US has your back at every turn. This is why you get so mad when Obama tells you to freeze settlements in lands that are not recognized by international community. Not only that but you people, who claim constant persecution (I'd agree you've had it rough), have no problem filling these comments up with racist and hateful remarks about our president, claiming he is a Muslim and such. He is a great man, just because he doesn't bow before Israel doesn't mean he isn't. He is putting US interests back ahead of your countries just like you think Israel should put its interests ahead of US's.
34. To Kyle Heck # 28
Vladimir ,   Jerusalem   (08.18.09)
Your preaching to the "far right" Israelis is not convincing. First of all, your "god given" argument is completely irrelevant. Even among the religious people it is used here by a very small minority, to say nothing of the secular Israels. We, the Israeli Jews, are guided solely by the necessity to survive in the hostile environment. The Arabs are our sworn enemies, and all of them, including those who signed peace agreements with us, are dreaming to crush Israel and to annihilate the Jews (or at best, to chase them out of the country). Not a single Arab state or organization has ever recognized our right to exist as a souvereign Jewish state in the recognized (even the narrowest) borders. Kyle, you are wrong in your basic assessment that we strive to restore the empire, to take back the land that belonged to us 2000 (and not 1000 as you write) years ago. It's the other way about. We already exist as an independent state for more than 60 years and Judea and Samaria (West Bank) belong to us since 1967, which we captured during a defensive war, repelling the Arab agression. Since then 2-3 generations were born and have been living there. So it's not us, but rather the Arabs, "defeated and conquered", try to reclaim the land. The chain of the Jewish settlement never broke throughout the ages. We have always been around. I was born in Russia, but my mother's uncle came to Israel in 1886, when the land was almost deserted. Less than 300 000 Arabs lived here. Ask them now where their grandfathers and great-grandfather were born, and they will tell you: Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia... Now back to moder politics. Only Israel showed flexibility to settle the dispute, not the Arabs. We even withdrew from the flourishing settlements in Gaza, where most of the 10 thousand deported Jews were born and raised. What did we get in return? Rockets and terrorist attacks. So, enough with experimenting. There is not enough room for two states on the territory from the Mediterranian sea to the Jordan river, which is only 80 km wide. Either we, or they. As for the relations with the USA, I think that you need us not less, than we need you. Israel is at the forefront of the struggle waged by the civilized world against the murderous Islam. Without Israel, the only free democratic country in this part of the world, the United States will not have any reliable ally in the Middle East. So, Kyle, don't preach us pragmatism. We, the Jews, are more pragmatic than you, Americans, because we have more historical experience.
35. Actually #8, Arizona is occupied Mexico
Chile Fernandez ,   Dos Padres, Arizona   (08.18.09)
36. 1st Reply to VLAD
Kyle Heck ,   United States   (08.19.09)
I wasn't referring to the whole of Israel or even your governments positions which I agree are pragmatic. Just read the posts on this site and you will see what I was responding to. If you want to say that its a fight for your survival I can understand that and I fully support the US always guaranteeing Israel protection. I even thing you guys should be able to keep the land you gained after being attacked by Arabs, but were I draw the line is when you have Israelis who think its their "god given" right to keep expanding indefiantly. Most of these commentators defiantly fall into that category, and they won't be happy to all of your ancient land is reclaimed. That is very impractical, thus it is not even your governments position. As I said if everyone kept trying to reconquer ancient lands the world would have so much conflict. My main point was that these comments are all almost completely irrational, yours being one of the exceptions. However the one thing I would point out is that although there has been Jews in Israel for thousands of years they basically lived under Arab or Muslim rule for 1000s of years until the Western world decided to support a Jewish state in your ancestral lands. I have never heard an Israeli be honest about what happened during your founding 60 or so years ago. Surely you realize that before that there was many more Arabs in modern day Israel, that was changed after the founding of Israel because of the right of return. That is why the UN demanded you have a homeland next to a Palestinian homeland from the very beginning. Israel itself has excepted a two state solution many times through out its history. Thousands and thousands of Arabs were basically harassed and or kicked off their land and still til this day aren't aloud to reclaim this property. If any other group of people suffered this they would also be very very upset like the Palestinians (Think about how you feel when Arabs attack you now). Point being this is not a one sided coin, both side have real legitimate grievances whether you will recognize that or not. The international community does so I would hope that you guys would to. Palestinian terrorist are evil and should be condemned but you must realize the basis of terrorism is utter desperation. With our backing Israel is so overpowering militarily compared to its neighbors that literally terrorism is all they can resort to try to achieve their goals. Think bout it, are the Palestinians going to fight pitch battles with a standing army against you? NO! Because they would be annihilated! The whole situation on both sides is actually quite sad. Its a constant cycle that breeds hatred, hatred, and more hatred, and two state solution is only way to fix that. You say there's only room for one state and either you or the Arabs have got to go. If that is the case and you refuse a two state solution here are your only other options. Arabs will soon outgrow the Jewish population of Israel so first you could kick all the Arabs out of Israel completely. Second option, you continue down the current path of controlling every aspect of their daily lives (which will eventually lead to an undemocratic apartheid state). Those two option are unacceptable to the UN, as they are human rights violations, so that won't work. Third option, which I know Jews don't want, you will become a minority in your own nation and Israel will no longer be a Jewish state.
37. 2nd Reply to Vlad
Kyle Heck ,   United States   (08.19.09)
If you as a nation don't get behind the 2 state solution your writing your own demise, unless you think one of those other 3 options is good. I can guarantee you the rest of the world won't accept those 3 options though, and Israel needs world community backing more then anything if it wants true protection. So you see there really is no choice from most citizens of the worlds prospective, we must form a nation for the Palestinians or it is only a matter of time before Israel as we know it today (democratic, human rights supporter, and the Jewish state) disappears and is replaced by something much different. We are trying to push you towards realizing that so Israel can thrive for another 1000 years. And your very wrong about us needing you as much. I am for protecting you guys as long as you keep working under international law bc of the points you made, but if the US and EU pulled out of Middle East completely our nations would still go on strong as ever. Between US and EU we control 2 continents. Israel however would be in a world of trouble if they forced the international community to abandon them bc they refused to follow international rule and law. It would the end of your nation and the US, or our President (who has been shown worst the no respect by this commentators) don't want that at all.
38.  #28, 31, 32, 33, 36, 37 - YOU HAVE A LOT OF SPARE TIME !
ABRAHAM ben JACOB ,   CANADA   (08.25.09)
KYLE, I WOULD LIKE TO WRITE SOMETHING REGARDING YOUR VOLUMOUS PARAGRAPHS HERE ON YNET BUT I FEEL, WE WILL ONLY GET LOTS MORE OF THE SAME FROM YOU. YOU HAVE CONTRADICTED YOURSELF SEVERAL TIMES FROM ONE POSTING TO ANOTHER. IT'S NOT HARD TO CONTRADICT YOUR OWN SELF KYLE , ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU WRITE SO MUCH " STUFF " , YOU SEEM TO FORGET WHAT YOU POSTED IN THE OTHER TALK BACKS. COOL OFF MAN -- KEEP IT SHORT, SWEET AND READABLE.
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